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View Full Version : Honest John regular vs mini


SaturnV
10-21-2011, 12:08 PM
What is the deal with the 2 different fins on the estes Honest John kits? The regular kit that takes standard A, B, or C engines has much bigger fins than the current mini Honest John I just bought last week at Hobby Lobby, even though the rockets are almost the same size. Which one is closer to scale? Need to know as I am currently making a G powered saturn V and wish to make a F powered Honest John for my next project. Cant understand the drastic difference.
Picture below (sure hope it comes out)
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l299/coyote1960/DSC02124.jpg

Royatl
10-21-2011, 12:56 PM
The real Honest John came in two different models, the M31 and M50.

The old Honest John kit (and the Maxi-Brute kit) was modeled on the M31, the new kit (and the mid-80's BT-55 based kit) on the M50.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGR-1_Honest_John

jharding58
10-21-2011, 01:29 PM
There is a build thread for the M31 Maxi Brute powered by 54mm and 38mm. There is also a kit from Madcow Rocketry M-31 for 29mm.

http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/2584/38/#axzz1bRTRiKWX

http://www.madcowrocketry.com/servlet/the-222/Honest-John-Rocket/Detail

Which do you want to build? In addition to the larger fins, the M-31 carried eight spin motors with semi-recessed nozzles and substantial reinforcement bands on the motor section. Both are relatively "close" to scale. The Mini Honest John M-50 comes out at around 1/24 (original length was 299"; model is 12.625) with a good representation of the ratio of motor to pedestal/warhead. The M-31 as modeled by semi scale K-27 with the balsa NC and cardstock pedestal comes to around 1/20 (original was 327", model was I think 15.25")

P.S. You can also download the TM for both the M-31 and M-50 from Google Books. Pretty much every dimension and specification to build a true scale modei - even having to have the spin motor ignition circuit wires running down the airframe to the pin switch!

http://books.google.com/books?id=4SMYAAAAYAAJ&pg=SA1-PA1&dq=MGR-1A&hl=en&ei=p8OhTrHlIdTbtwe1jqmrBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CD4Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false

Royatl
10-21-2011, 02:24 PM
The Mini Honest John M-50 comes out at around 1/24 (original length was 299"; model is 12.625) with a good representation of the ratio of motor to pedestal/warhead. The M-31 as modeled by semi scale K-27 with the balsa NC and cardstock pedestal comes to around 1/20 (original was 327", model was I think 15.25")


K-27 was 13.75" which works out to 1/23.78.
Since the original motors were both roughly 22" diameter and both models are BT-50, they should be the same scale.

The nose cones are not quite interchangeable. Besides the number of and internal/external positioning of the spin rockets, the ogive section for the M50 was a tad longer and the conical section was a bit shorter.

ghrocketman
10-21-2011, 03:07 PM
The M31 round looks semi-realistic.
The M50 round looks cartoon-ridiculous and have no idea why ANYONE would choose it as a scale project over the M31.

jharding58
10-21-2011, 05:23 PM
Seriously. Every dimension you can imagine regarding both the M-31 and M-50 is in this document. Go to the google site and download the pdf. A nice three hour read.

http://books.google.com/books?id=4SMYAAAAYAAJ&pg=SA1-PA1&dq=MGR-1A&hl=en&ei=p8OhTrHlIdTbtwe1jqmrBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CD4Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false

blackshire
10-21-2011, 09:57 PM
The M31 round looks semi-realistic.
The M50 round looks cartoon-ridiculous and have no idea why ANYONE would choose it as a scale project over the M31.Different strokes for different folks...

SaturnV
10-21-2011, 11:34 PM
Excellent! Thanks guys! looks like I have some interesting work ahead of me after I finish the Saturn. In the mean time I plan first launch of the mini version off my back deck this weekend...rain or shine (or snow...supposed to get some frost tonight). Thanks again to all. I am saving the links so i can read them at my leisure.