Madcow Honest John...

[Swillie]

I have ordered the Madcow Honest John 115 kit. I love the look of this rocket and found a good deal online so I pulled the trigger. This will be my first mid power kit and first fiberglass as well. Just wondering if anyone here on the forum has built this kit and could give me a heads up of anything I should do other than build it as per the instructions. I will need to get a motor retainer or make one for it. The aeropack looks nice, but is a bit pricey. Was thinking to build one with T-nuts as I have seen on here but no experience with that so any advice there would help.

[Rex R]

for a 29mm motor you should only require one retaining clip (I've been using 'pannel clips') a pretty good read on making your own can be found here; http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=18733 hth
rex

[Bravo52]

I don't think you need a motor retainer. If I remember correctly, one comes in the kit.

I had zero problems with the build. The difficult part of the build was getting the details right. The Spin Rockets on the NC are very basic in shape so you have to sand to have them even come close to looking right. The kit provides launch lugs (1/4 in) so I recommend replacing them with buttons. Finally, the only other thing that comes to mind is you have to sand the inside of the NC to get the bulkhead to fit. Make sure you rough up the MM and the BT to accept the epoxy when you glue on the fins. The whole kit takes about 2 hrs. to build if you have all the tools...

[Scott21]

<snip> The kit provides launch lugs (1/4 in) so I recommend replacing them with buttons.<snip>
Assuming, of course, you have access to a rail launch system. ;)

[Swillie]

Wow, 2 hours.... i'm guess epoxy dries faster than elmers carpenter glue, lol. Well this will be a learning experience. I don't have access to a rail system per se. But I am afraid this rocket will never come home if I flew it at my local park. I was thinking I might bring it to a club launch, there are ones a little outside of Ann Arbor Michigan which is not too far a haul. My son asked me if we could go to one this year so this is my plan. Could I fly it with the standard 1/4 lugs there? I would figure so. I suppose rail buttons would be best, but than I would be limiting myself from ever flying it near home.

[Rex R]

I would guess that most clubs would have one or more 1/4" rods availible...though it wouldn't hurt to contact them ahead of time.
glanced at the instructions. altough there is a line saying to use positive motor retenion...there is no mention of a motor retainer. I would gues that like the MC kits I've built, it is up to the builder to supply their own.

[Bravo52]

I would guess that most clubs would have one or more 1/4" rods availible...though it wouldn't hurt to contact them ahead of time.
glanced at the instructions. altough there is a line saying to use positive motor retenion...there is no mention of a motor retainer. I would gues that like the MC kits I've built, it is up to the builder to supply their own.

This is what came in my kit:

http://www.madcowrocketry.com/servlet/the-58/Motor-Retainer-2924mm/Detail

I guess I got a bonus deal..... :cool:

[Swillie]

Hey thanks for the info guys, i'll wait till the kit arrives and see what else is needed. Maybe I will put rail buttons on instead.... where would I go to order those? I would like to make one order , retainer, buttons, epoxy to keep shipping costs down. How much and where would I get a launch rail for personal use if I went with buttons?

Also did your kit come with just the single Honest John name decal like it shows?? If so I am going to order the Maxi Brute decals from Sandman.

[Rex R]

your local hardware store or hobby shop should stock epoxy, I would suggest getting both 5 minute & 20-30 minute epoxies(if you have to pick only one, go with the longer cure). Madcow sells rail buttons; http://www.madcowrocketry.com/servlet/the-197/Rail-Button-Pack/Detail as do appogee, Loc, and PML.
as for a rail pad...I would suggest DIY, they can be rather spendy(apogee lists them for $500, they also list the rail itself for $80). if you have a club near by contact them, they may be able to help you find/make one for a good deal less.

[jetlag]

I would guess that most clubs would have one or more 1/4" rods availible...though it wouldn't hurt to contact them ahead of time.
glanced at the instructions. altough there is a line saying to use positive motor retenion...there is no mention of a motor retainer. I would gues that like the MC kits I've built, it is up to the builder to supply their own.

My suggestion is go to Lowes and get a 4ft 1/4 rod of your own and take it with you, just to be sure. Just don't forget to go out to the range and get it when you leave!
Then, you'll have one when you want to launch it or any other mid-power rocket you may want to own.
1/4 inch rod is a good bit cheaper than a rail and the the buttons.

Have fun!

Allen

[Swillie]

I have the kit now..... heavy duty stuff compared to the paper tubes I am used to!! Anyway I have ordered a few extras, decals from Excelsior, kevlar chute protector, 30" chute from rocketchutes. Only thing I am waiting on is a pair of Estes pro series 29mm motor retainers.
There in lies the question, what should I use to adhere it to the fiberglass motor mount tube. I am guessing it is plastic. I also am guessing it is sized to go on a heavy duty paper tube which would be thicker than the fiberglass in the HoJo so it may fit a little loose. Epoxy?? JBweld?? Any suggestions welcome as I have never worked with these materials before.

[pantherjon]

Actually the fiberglass motor tubes are a tad thicker then the paper equivalent...That said, recommended adhesive for the retainer, I would think, would be JB Weld...

[Swillie]

well I kind of screwed up ....just realized my kit came with a 38 millimeter motor mount....I suppose I'll have to purchase an adapter to step it down to the 29 millimeter motors ...at least if I ever decide I want the flying on something bigger than a g motor I know I can . do they make a 38 motor retainer that would accommodate an adapter and 29 motor ?

[Brent]

Aeropac is the way to go. Great stuff.

[Swillie]

From what I understand looking online...
I install a standard Aero Pack 38mm screw on type retainer. (do 38mm motors have a thrust ring on them to hold the engine aft?? Also 38mm motors would mean I would need to achieve level 1 certification, right? This is all new ground for me, I thought I was getting a 29mm kit.)


If I want to fly 29mm which would likely be the case, I simply place the motor in a 29mm to 38mm Aero Pack motor adapter. It looks as though the adapter comes with a spacer which you place in the 38mm retainer cap and screw the cap on.

Is this correct?? Where is the best site to shop for Aero Pack??

Thanks, I think I bit off more than I was ready to chew, but I might as well make this thing right.

Steve

[Bill]

From what I understand looking online...
I install a standard Aero Pack 38mm screw on type retainer. (do 38mm motors have a thrust ring on them to hold the engine aft??

Reloadable motors do. There may be some single use motors which require that you wrap some tape around the nozzle end to make a thrust ring.


Also 38mm motors would mean I would need to achieve level 1 certification, right? This is all new ground for me, I thought I was getting a 29mm kit.)

There are a few 38mm mid-power motors. The single grain Pro-38 comes to mind.


If I want to fly 29mm which would likely be the case, I simply place the motor in a 29mm to 38mm Aero Pack motor adapter. It looks as though the adapter comes with a spacer which you place in the 38mm retainer cap and screw the cap on.

Is this correct??

I originally said that is correct, but I reread your question. The adapter looks like an elongated spool with a larger ring at one of the ends - that end fits into the 38mm retainer. I do not recall there being a spacer.

But you will want to check with a local vendor to see whether the motor casing you have or intend to get will fit correctly. This design was originally for AT hardware. I do not know whether a CTI Pro-29 casing will fit.


Bill

[pantherjon]

CTI 29MM cases will fit in the Aeropac 29/38 adapter.

[Swillie]

Well its been awhile, but I finally have gotten around to building some rockets. This was my first time using epoxy extensively and I really have come to love that stuff. It made awesome fillets, smoothest I have ever made. Its primed and painted and ready for decals. I am using the white Estes Maxi Brute from Sandman. What I need to find is some reference pictures or a guide to help with decal placement. If anyone can steer me in the right direction it would be greatly appreciated. I am thinking I might go ahead and Level 1 Cert with this thing this year.

Steve.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k24/swillie1/build%20pics/IMAG0200_zpsfc0a9c3f.jpg

[sandman]

This does show the decal location...something like second or third page from the end.

http://www.estesrockets.com/media/instructions/002166_HONEST_JOHN.pdf

Ok, maybe the fourth page from the end.

[Swillie]

Well that is exactly what I needed alright. Thank you !!

[sandman]

See, all ya gotta do is ask.

[Swillie]

Decals are finished. Thanks Sandman, these decals are of really nice quality and went on with zero problems. My brother recently bought a set of Leviathan decals from you on my recommendation. We should be back in the air soon! Took a few pics, wish I had something other than a camera phone so kind of grainy photos. Some of the decals are still wet in the pics, but they are blending in nicely as they dry. In a week I am gonna shoot a few coats of matte clear to lock them in. I built it with an Aeropac 38mm retainer and a 29mm-38mm motor adapter so I have a lot of flying options. I need to download Rocsim and get a handle on what is the smallest motor I can safely use for a flight on my local field without losing this one.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k24/swillie1/build%20pics/IMAG0214_zps5894923c.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k24/swillie1/build%20pics/IMAG0213_zpse6f979bd.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k24/swillie1/build%20pics/IMAG0212_zps22ad3ba1.jpg

[sandman]

Wow, real nice!

I'll have to finish my Estes one now.

I think I'll go with the white and black test round

[jetlag]

Swillie,
That looks fantastic! The decals ace it, too.
The only thing I might suggest to really finish it, besides what you said, is to paint the nozzle exhaust holes on the spin motors.
Perfect!
Pics when you launch, please!

Allen

[Swillie]

Holy madcow, I completely forgot about the spin nozzles !! :eek: Thanks for noticing that.

[Swillie]

Pics when you launch, please!

Allen

Well you asked for pics, and a little over four years later you got 'em!! After a long break from the hobby I started up again, built a few kits and finally made my way to the Michigan Team1 club launch on Saturday. It was a bit windy out but I had to send this thing up on it's first flight. Aerotech LMS G78-7G Green Mohave motor. Nice straight flight, chute deployed right at apogee and recovered minus a bit of decal which was pealing anyway here and there but otherwise you would never even know I flew it. I'm sure this could handle the 38mm motors no problem, but this flight was just high enough for me. I think now that I could safely fly this with a slightly smaller motor in my local field if the wind was minimal.
A TRA member at the launch (Jeff) was kind enough to send me these pics he took of the launch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-SS-YATiVQ (video from my phone, not the best quality)

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k24/swillie1/Honest%20John%200_zpsjjo4mdnk.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k24/swillie1/build%20pics/Honest%20John%201_zpsgt4pim4p.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k24/swillie1/build%20pics/Honest%20John%202_zps9mvr3cti.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k24/swillie1/Honest%20John%203_zpsfauldqze.jpg