EnerJet Anyone?

[Ltvscout]

I've now got some Enerjet goodies online here:

http://www.oldrocketplans.com/enerjet.htm

[ghrocketman]

I already have these, plus the plans for the 2-stage 2650 (drawn by Gary R. of Aerotech), but you should post on the plans site for all to enjoy.

[Ltvscout]

I already have these, plus the plans for the 2-stage 2650 (drawn by Gary R. of Aerotech), but you should post on the plans site for all to enjoy.
So, where are the scans of that 2-stage kit for me to post? ;)

[Green Dragon]

umm.. if you don't post it, we'll all likely hunt you down , lol :)

Awesome stuff, I personally had never seen that before - the 2250 instructions , showing the cuts in the motor mount tubes and drawing definately showing a triangulated main body.

Please post for others' enjoyment ( the fanatics already downloaded and printed/ framed it, lol :)

~ AL

[ghrocketman]

I'll try to dig up the stuff I have on the 2650...I know I have the hardcopy, not sure what format I have the electronic copy in.

[SEL]

I was poking around my drive and came across these files I absconded from somewhere in 2003. They have info for the EnerJet 2250 & 2650 Sounding rockets. I don't have this on the website yet, but here's the pdf.

http://www.oldrocketplans.com/centuri/cen2250/2250-2650.pdf

Steve, Sean, Stefan and Al. You all seem to be the big EnerJet gurus. Should I just post this in the Centuri plans section?

I don't remember who first posted those - Larry Broadbent, maybe? It was quite a while ago.
As far as the 2 stage 2650, I have the old Composite Dynamics plans that I bought from AAA. I thought those were posted out there somewhere. I don't have them scanned, but Steve may be able to help out there. If not, I'll have Kinko's scan them and then send them off to you.

Sean

[SEL]

I don't remember who first posted those - Larry Broadbent, maybe? It was quite a while ago.
As far as the 2 stage 2650, I have the old Composite Dynamics plans that I bought from AAA. I thought those were posted out there somewhere. I don't have them scanned, but Steve may be able to help out there. If not, I'll have Kinko's scan them and then send them off to you.

Sean
Ooops, I do have them scanned - here you go.

[Ltvscout]

Ooops, I do have them scanned - here you go.
Cool. Thanks, Sean. I'll add these to the other PDF later tonight.

[Green Dragon]

hmm.. now I'm going to have to dig out my 2250 / 2650 plans ( the Gary Rosenfield ones as sold by CD ).

I have them both , but did nto recall the 2650 print having the booster on it, maybe it does, lol - I only built the 2250 version so far.

Good stuff :)

~ AL

[SEL]

Cool. Thanks, Sean. I'll add these to the other PDF later tonight.

And while yoiu're at it here are the 2250 plans.

[snaquin]

And while yoiu're at it here are the 2250 plans.

Sean

I think you are right ..... I obtained my "2250 Assembly Drawing" as a .tiff file from Larry Broadbent a good while back, and got my 2250 plans and Uprated 2650 plans from AAA.

Any forum member interested to see what the Uprated 2650 would look like if you decided to build one from the drawings have a look :)

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1704

I built it from the plans and that picture was taken at LDRS-XIII back in August 13, 1994. I still have parts in the box to build a 2250 from the plans with a true hand turned Sandman solid hard balsa nose cone and 29mm mounts cut to squeeze the motor mount tubes into the airframe. I cut the fins already.

At least Scott called us "gurus", I'd hate to think I was a fanatic like some of the other guys around here. :rolleyes:

.

[CPMcGraw]

At least Scott called us "gurus", I'd hate to think I was a fanatic like some of the other guys around here. :rolleyes:

From one who is following this thread at a slight distance :cool: , I ran this model through RockSim just now, and got a few numbers to throw down...

Using three E9-8s in the sustainer, and three E9-0s in the booster; and using balsa nose and fins as called out on these plans, I got 2731' with a 56 FPS deployment velocity.

Three D12-7s in the sustainer and three D12-0s in the booster got to 1620' with a Dv of 26 FPS.

Three E9-8s in the sustainer and three D12-0s in the booster got 2280' with a Dv of 33 FPS.

Launch guide lengths are 60" for both of the D12 booster flights, but 130" for the E9 booster flight.

Composite engines would require timers, batteries, and other components, so I'm not sure how much usable payload room would remain for "scientific flights"...

[ghrocketman]

And where exactly are you buying your E9-0 booster engines ??? :D :p :D
I bet I can guess ! ;) ;) ;)
Probably the same place I get mine ! :rolleyes:

When fast thermalite wick was available readily (before the ever over-reaching butt-our-snoots-in-where-they-don't belong harass-natural born US CITIZEN rocketeers BATFE got involved) it was possible to stage composites (even clusters) without any stinkin' complicated electronics.

[snaquin]

From one who is following this thread at a slight distance :cool: , I ran this model through RockSim just now, and got a few numbers to throw down...

Using three E9-8s in the sustainer, and three E9-0s in the booster; and using balsa nose and fins as called out on these plans, I got 2731' with a 56 FPS deployment velocity.

Three D12-7s in the sustainer and three D12-0s in the booster got to 1620' with a Dv of 26 FPS.

Three E9-8s in the sustainer and three D12-0s in the booster got 2280' with a Dv of 33 FPS.

Launch guide lengths are 60" for both of the D12 booster flights, but 130" for the E9 booster flight.

Composite engines would require timers, batteries, and other components, so I'm not sure how much usable payload room would remain for "scientific flights"...

Craig

And that's pretty good numbers for a rocket considering it's size and weight. I built mine with all LOC parts (my nose cone wasn't exactly to scale because of this) and LOC tubes in that dia are pretty light weight. No doubt the EnerJet 2250/2650 was where Ron got his inspiration for the Viper kits from - it's an awesome design.

It was noted about the original 2650 that the rocket was proven stable flown with one of it's motors inert. I proved this on a flight with G55-10W motors and only two of the three ignited.

The original EnerJet literature for the 2650 rocket claimed 53 cubic inches of payload room and a dry weight of 14 ounces for the 2650 (no booster). Main body and payload sections were recovered separately with 36" and 24" silk parachutes.

As you mentioned, staging one would be difficult at best. When I first built and flew mine there were the reliable Rocketflite black powder F motors and I could kick myself for not buying a bunch of those thinking they would like all other things be available forever :(
Even more difficult to overcome the fact that you would have to run ignitor wires from the sustainer payload section all the way down to the booster with external conduits due to the minimum diameter design of the motor tubes.

I fley my first flight on the two stage version as a single stage with (3) H35-10J motors. My second flight used (3) G55-10W and I can't remember how many flights I punished mine with after that but it held up for a good many years. I never flew that version as a two stage because of the reasons you mentioned and difficulty staging composites in that design. (Fanatic rant over .....) :D

.

[CPMcGraw]

Even more difficult to overcome the fact that you would have to run ignitor wires from the sustainer payload section all the way down to the booster with external conduits due to the minimum diameter design of the motor tubes.

Run the wires down that central opening between the three motor tubes, and have some openings in the booster tubes at their tops for the leads to gain access. Plug the hole at the top of the sustainer tubes with the wires in place...

[snaquin]

And where exactly are you buying your E9-0 booster engines ??? :D :p :D
I bet I can guess ! ;) ;) ;)
Probably the same place I get mine ! :rolleyes:

When fast thermalite wick was available readily (before the ever over-reaching butt-our-snoots-in-where-they-don't belong harass-natural born US CITIZEN rocketeers BATFE got involved) it was possible to stage composites (even clusters) without any stinkin' complicated electronics.

Thermalite ..... the good ole' days

I used three big whips of that thermalite with teflon sheaths with a flashbulb from Robby's Rockets back in the day. He had some fantastic igniters.

[CPMcGraw]

And where exactly are you buying your E9-0 booster engines ??? I bet I can guess ! Probably the same place I get mine ! :rolleyes:

Uhh, well, ye know... :o I was jes' usin' whut that thar Rock-ee-sim had innit...

When fast thermalite wick was available readily (before the ever over-reaching butt-our-snoots-in-where-they-don't belong harass-natural born US CITIZEN rocketeers BATFE got involved) it was possible to stage composites (even clusters) without any stinkin' complicated electronics.

I was wondering about how to reliably air-start three large BP motors, especially if one booster motor had a burn shorter than the other two, or somehow started its burn ahead of the other two. The upper motors would have to all start whenever the first booster motor burns out, otherwise you might get one motor to light while the others stay dark. Has anyone ever devised an airborne flash-pan system, where it was guaranteed to light off whenever the first motor burns out?

[SEL]

[COLOR=Black]Sean

I think you are right ..... I obtained my "2250 Assembly Drawing" as a .tiff file from Larry Broadbent a good while back, and got my 2250 plans and Uprated 2650 plans from AAA..

Yeah, I'm thinking he sent them to me Winter 2001/02.

Sean

[SEL]

Craig

And that's pretty good numbers for a rocket considering it's size and weight. I built mine with all LOC parts (my nose cone wasn't exactly to scale because of this) and LOC tubes in that dia are pretty light weight. No doubt the EnerJet 2250/2650 was where Ron got his inspiration for the Viper kits from - it's an awesome design.

It was noted about the original 2650 that the rocket was proven stable flown with one of it's motors inert. I proved this on a flight with G55-10W motors and only two of the three ignited..

I didn't have that kind of luck with my North Coast 24mm version. I used 3 Vulcan E26-8's.
Only one motor lit at first. When the rocket left the rod it turned horizontal, at which point either 1 or both of the remaining motors lit, and it very quickly cruise missiled off into the sunset . Saw the ejection, but it was well into a heavily wooded area and we never found it.
I ordered another one from North Coast that night.

Sean

[Green Dragon]

Steve,

Love that Business End pic :-)

Good stuff ( and memories) there....

~ AL

[Green Dragon]

Thermalite ..... the good ole' days

I used three big whips of that thermalite with teflon sheaths with a flashbulb from Robby's Rockets back in the day. He had some fantastic igniters.

I still have a few of those Robby's igniters.

Use to use them in the LOC Ultimate all the time ( think 1 x G80, 2 x G40's, 2 F-somethings and 2 E15 or D12's .... :)

Also of interest is the comment on the NCR versions of the 2650/2250 ( not true copies, more rip-offs of the US Rockets version ) .

I have photos of my buddies 29mm version (Sonic Seduction ?) going bye bye on three Vulcan motors - either F30's or G97's.. never seen again .

My own USRockets version was lost at our local flying site on 3 x ACS G78's , will have to see about scanning the pics, if I can borrow a scanner.
Was found by a nice elderly lady in her backyard, who called and I went to retrieve it :-)

Was later lsot for good at LDRS-6 on 3 Aerotech G65, a call later from a rancher said they found it months later ( he thought it was a fencepost laying out on the range, so never went to check on it for a while, lol ) , according to what he told me ( your milage may vary ), it was supposedly found something liek 15-20 MILES from the launch site.
I find that hard to believe, but then started wondering .... launch site is above 10,000 ft ASL.... a lightweight ( no payload section ) 2650 ( 1 1/2 - 2 lbs ?) on three G motors (130 Nsec ea = baby 'I' ) should go up ,say 4000 feet, maybe more in the thin air at Hartsell ?
don;t recall the chute, likely a 24 or 28" LOC chute , but figure it caught a thermal or something and clear the mountains ( a mile away-ish ) , now we're talking somewhere in the neighborhood of 15,000 feet ASL to come down / drift from .... still sounds far-fetched, but I've seen - in my contest flying days, an egglofter or PD bird that was up 9-10 minutes on a C6, and was still going UP on a thermal when lost sight of..... who knows.....

~ AL

[SEL]

I still have a few of those Robby's igniters.

Use to use them in the LOC Ultimate all the time ( think 1 x G80, 2 x G40's, 2 F-somethings and 2 E15 or D12's .... :)

Also of interest is the comment on the NCR versions of the 2650/2250 ( not true copies, more rip-offs of the US Rockets version ) .

I have photos of my buddies 29mm version (Sonic Seduction ?) going bye bye on three Vulcan motors - either F30's or G97's.. never seen again .


I didn't know US Rockets made a 2650 - do you have the specs?

NCR's Sonic Seduction was a two-stage cluster similar to the SR2650, but the fins look to be a slightly different shape.

Sean

[SEL]

I didn't know US Rockets made a 2650 - do you have the specs?

NCR's Sonic Seduction was a two-stage cluster similar to the SR2650, but the fins look to be a slightly different shape.

Sean

Back to the NCR Replica 2650 Reduced version. The only thing that bugged me about the kit was that the motor tubes were too short by a couple of inches (compared to the CD drawings anyway). I may have posted this photo before, but here it is again.

[Green Dragon]

I didn't know US Rockets made a 2650 - do you have the specs?

NCR's Sonic Seduction was a two-stage cluster similar to the SR2650, but the fins look to be a slightly different shape.

Sean

Yep, the " Hi-Test 2650 " was one of US Rockets' first kits.

here's a link :

http://v-serv.com/usr/kits/2650.htm

I think I have a fin pattern someplace, but not the full-blown plans,etc. will have to dig.

you'll note the resemblance ( fin design,etc) tot he NCR version.

early USR kits had a thin-wall G12 fiberglass body tube, later ones I believe had just thick wall Ace cardboard tubing.

I do know NCR made both the 'Sonic Seduction' ( USR type 2650 ) and an actual 'clone type' 2650 as well.
guys here had the SS style, and I had the USR version ( I never had an actual 'clone' 2650 until my 2250 clone I have not flown yet, so any posts I'd mentioned flying the 2650 refer to the USR version, lol )

~ AL

[Green Dragon]

Back to the NCR Replica 2650 Reduced version. The only thing that bugged me about the kit was that the motor tubes were too short by a couple of inches (compared to the CD drawings anyway). I may have posted this photo before, but here it is again.

I don't recall seeing that pic before, so cool :)

My own 2250 is more like the NCR - using 24mm motor tubes ( but vintage FSI 2.34" tubing and cone/bulkhead) .

Still unflown , will hopefully get to fly at the ASTRE launch Oct 30th .. hopinh to get a chance to head on up there.
3 x E9-6's are still prepped and in the bird from a rained out Nepra launch, so we'll see how she flies yet :-)

~ AL

[snaquin]

..... Was later lsot for good at LDRS-6 on 3 Aerotech G65, a call later from a rancher said they found it months later ( he thought it was a fencepost laying out on the range, so never went to check on it for a while, lol ) , according to what he told me ( your milage may vary ), it was supposedly found something liek 15-20 MILES from the launch site.
I find that hard to believe, but then started wondering .... launch site is above 10,000 ft ASL.... a lightweight ( no payload section ) 2650 ( 1 1/2 - 2 lbs ?) on three G motors (130 Nsec ea = baby 'I' ) should go up ,say 4000 feet, maybe more in the thin air at Hartsell ?
don;t recall the chute, likely a 24 or 28" LOC chute , but figure it caught a thermal or something and clear the mountains ( a mile away-ish ) , now we're talking somewhere in the neighborhood of 15,000 feet ASL to come down / drift from .... still sounds far-fetched, but I've seen - in my contest flying days, an egglofter or PD bird that was up 9-10 minutes on a C6, and was still going UP on a thermal when lost sight of..... who knows.....

~ AL

I flew at the same Hartsel site two years later at LDRS-8, the first LDRS I ever attended. I flew a 3" dia rocket on my first J motor, single use J100-10W that I bought from Ross with Magnum right of the back of his truck. (Remember being able to just buy a J motor off the back of a truck without an act of Congress?). It cleared the mountains and I never got it back. Great altutides launching from that site. Chuck Rogers and crew tracked it to 6,912 feet before they lost site of it and the J100 was a far cry from a full J like say a J125.

Your 2650 probably touched down in the next town, really. We recovered my buddys LOC Ultimate on a mix of H125's and G25's on the other side of that highway that was past the back side of the Hartsel site and found other peoples rockets there while looking for his as well.

[barone]

Aaaahhhhh Hartzell.....where the buffalo roam....... ;)

Don
NAR 53455

[snaquin]

Back to the NCR Replica 2650 Reduced version. The only thing that bugged me about the kit was that the motor tubes were too short by a couple of inches (compared to the CD drawings anyway). I may have posted this photo before, but here it is again.

Great lift off shot Sean and I like the way you chose to finish it out like the original.

I always wanted to try out the NCR Replica 2650 in both the full and reduced versions but they dropped them from the catalog before I had a chance to buy them. Back then you still had FSI black powder motors available and I always wanted to fly one on (3) F100-8's and the reduced size on the FSI D18-6's.

[Initiator001]

Back in 1990 (When I was working at AeroTech) my co-worker/roomate, Scott Pearce, and I were a NAR team (Team #44, Mostly Harmless).

We were traveling all over the West/Southwest to compete in NAR sanctioned contests.

We were going to fly at a contest hosted by the Los Angeles Rocket Society (LARS, now SCRA). One of the events was Sport Scale.

Scott was never one to be 'conventional' when it came to rocketry. He wanted to enter something different for scale.

He decided on an Enerjet 2250. However, this would not be a full size model. Scott decided to reduce the size to that of a BT-55 for the main body tube and BT-20s for the motor tubes.

We had a great resource in Gary Rosenfield and his Enerjet archive.

Scott built the model (He turned the nose cone on a lathe).

I assembled the scale packet using pictures and drawings from Gary's files.

We arrived at the meet and presented the 2250 for judging. There was some confusion if the 2250 really was a 'professional' rocket. Our data packet was pretty good and the judges accepted the model.

The model was flown on three B6-6 motors. It had a perfect flight and was recovered without damage.

We took first place. :D

Bob

[ghrocketman]

Bob,
I LIKE your thinking when it comes to "creative" interpretation of scale rules for the Enerjet 2250 !

[snaquin]

Back in 1990 (When I was working at AeroTech) my co-worker/roomate, Scott Pearce, and I were a NAR team (Team #44, Mostly Harmless).

We were traveling all over the West/Southwest to compete in NAR sanctioned contests.

We were going to fly at a contest hosted by the Los Angeles Rocket Society (LARS, now SCRA). One of the events was Sport Scale.

Scott was never one to be 'conventional' when it came to rocketry. He wanted to enter something different for scale.

He decided on an Enerjet 2250. However, this would not be a full size model. Scott decided to reduce the size to that of a BT-55 for the main body tube and BT-20s for the motor tubes.

We had a great resource in Gary Rosenfield and his Enerjet archive.

Scott built the model (He turned the nose cone on a lathe).

I assembled the scale packet using pictures and drawings from Gary's files.

We arrived at the meet and presented the 2250 for judging. There was some confusion if the 2250 really was a 'professional' rocket. Our data packet was pretty good and the judges accepted the model.

The model was flown on three B6-6 motors. It had a perfect flight and was recovered without damage.

We took first place. :D

Bob

The 2250's little brother ..... looks really great in that scale.