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ccollins
03-15-2013, 11:03 AM
Banned from my bench: Krylon Triple Thick Crystal Clear gloss coat. I am done with this stuff. It has ruined fine paint jobs on multiple rockets now and I should have stopped at the first. This is even after getting suggestions on using it from my neighbor who is a professional paint man for Sherwin-Williams. This time, it demolished the paint job on the nose cone of my Mega Der Red Max. It went on fine for most of the nose cone but oddly, on one 2" wide stripe, it completely wrinkled the black paint underneath as if there were some chemical in the can that happened to come out when I made that one "swipe" with the can down the nose cone. It also did that in small "spots" in a few others areas of the cone. I tested a sand-down of the wrinkles and as it turns out, it can only be repaired by completely sanding down the nose cone through the primer and down to the plastic. Bye bye decals as well. Fortunately I did not have any of the "wrinkling" problems on the body but it went on uneven in spots and wouldn't "even out" with subsequent coats. Many more problems with this stuff than I care to mention. It looks absolutely gorgeous when it works right. Too often for me, it doesn't.

This one just hit me hard. I worked very hard on this MDRM - my first mid-power rocket. To see that happen right at the end is just a punch in the gut. I was in a foul mood all last night. Paint fail has caused me more grief over the years than just about anything else except maybe for seeing my old Estes Colossus nose dive into a cotton field because I thought I would be "smart" and avoiding severe wind drift on recovery by sticking a D11-9 in it. I am OCD enough to want paint and decals near-perfect and even so, small imperfections bother me. It is something I need to get over for sure - lifelong project there haha. Ok done with complaining, time to move forward with paint repairs.

I am not willing at this point to sand down the MDRM's rocket body and lose all of the decals on it. The body doesn't look very good up close and feels very "rough" in areas from overspray but it looks good at 10' and I'll just chalk it up to experience and go start learning how to fly mid-power and enjoy it (working on that OCD problem!). Losing the decals on the nose cone isn't too bad because neither the mini nor the original had nose cone decals so I have found a way to be ok with that.

I guess now I am going to try a foam brush and Future floor polish. Does anyone have suggestions on how to successfully coat a rocket in this stuff? Sounds like foam brush + thin coat is key but if you can offer up any "particulars" I would love to hear them.

Thanks!

Curtis

ghrocketman
03-15-2013, 11:39 AM
ALL Clear-Coats from Krylon are almost as 'hot' as Clear Dope. DO NOT use it on any basecoats other than DOPE. It will RUIN virtually ALL other finishes. If you want a Clear-Coat that is safe over virtually anything, get Testor's Glosscote or Dullcote. Yep, it's expensive but is a very special 'non hot solvent package' lacquer that has Ethyl Acetate as the primary solvent, which will NOT dissolve virtually any enamel basecoat.

Future sucks. PERIOD.

Scott6060842
03-15-2013, 01:41 PM
When I use future I use a thin coat and a foam brush just like you said. I bought a couple hundred of them at Michaels when they were on sale for 5 cents each. Just toss 'em after each use.

I have a couple of motor casing sized tubes mounted on a sticks so I can spin the model and turn it upside down and rightside up until it dries.

Another lesson learned the hard way. If the Future "sticks" the nose cone to the tube don't try to twist it off, work it back and forth until it breaks loose :o

jetlag
03-15-2013, 06:34 PM
I spray Pledge (new name for old Future) unaltered from an airbrush. Spray isn't the right word. 'Hose' is much more accurate. I spray it on so heavy that all the excess runs off to the lowest point and drips away. Hang your nose cone upside down after you are done 'shooting' and let the Pledge run or drip off the point.
After spraying the rocket body down ( I spray a lot starting at the top of the BT and work down to the fins), let it sit on a stand and just let the Pledge flow to the lowest points of the fins, then just touch the droplets as they form. Decals sometimes will try to bead up the Pledge when I first spray, but I keep the airbrush spraying, just hosing the area down. The material is so thin, it levels nicely and evens as it spreads towards the fin low points.

I totally disagree with GH on the Pledge thing. Here, he does not know what he is talking about.
I use it on ALL of my rockets and model airplanes (for the decals, then use Testors Flat clear for the Camo jobs). GH is right about the Testors and Pactra Clears, though.
These Red Max pics are of one I built for a friend of mine. Christine had to send me a new decal for the top of the BT 'cause I messed mine up putting it on (the usual fantastic service from her and Estes). It was a nice build.
I had to download these off my phone, so their quality isn't super.

And I have fallen in love with this new (to me) Rustoleum "Painters Touch" paint, too!
Apple Red on the Max.
See for yourself...

jeffyjeep
03-15-2013, 08:28 PM
Krylon ANYTHING is banned from my house. It's called "Krylon" because it makes you "Kry". :(

chrism
03-15-2013, 11:01 PM
Krylon ANYTHING is banned from my house. It's called "Krylon" because it makes you "Kry". :(

I remember Johnny Bench used to do commercials for Krylon "No runs, drips or errors." From what I have read on this forum about Krylon, there are plenty of runs, drips and errors!

frognbuff
03-15-2013, 11:03 PM
Mostly I agree. When Krylon changed their formula a few years back, the product went almost completely to Hell. Almost.

While shopping at the Peterson AFB Exchange, I came across Krylon ultra-flat camouflage colors. Since I build a lot of military subjects, this seemed to be right up my alley (plus, you get a LOT of paint for a low price, as compared to Testor's). I actually like those paints a lot. They dry FAST (great for us impatient types) and look pretty cool. They come in a couple of shades of green and a couple of shades of brown. I also use Krylon primer, as it sticks well, covers well, and sands easily. And again it's pretty cheap.

Those are the ONLY Krylon products I could recommend to anybody.

Swillie
03-15-2013, 11:16 PM
I love the finish pledge with future shine gives, especially when working with larger rockets it is just so easy to use. I use it straight with a foam brush. I hang the nose cone upside down and the body fins down. Than working from the top down just brush it on heavy and keep moving around and down to the bottom. As drips form on the bottom edges or tip of the nosecone dab them with a piece of paper towel to let them bleed into it . After about twenty minutes the drips will stop. Small air bubbles will dissappear as it dries. A couple hours to fully dry and your done.

Do let your paint cure for a week or so before putting on the future. I tend to rush to clear coating too soon and have had the clear form 'cracks' in it. I think this was the fault of not letting glossy paint fully cure first.

Bill Gibson
03-17-2013, 03:42 PM
This what ive learned about finishing rockets...not that my way is correct, but this is what ive learned to this point....
Ive had no problem with Kryon paint, providing that im not loooking for a SUPER glossy finish......i have painted rockets with Krylon and they look fine as long as i do NOT use Krylon clear.

If i want a glossy finish, i use standard Rustoleum spray paint...if i put another color or clearcoat the rocket, i wait AT LEAST 48 HOURS before i apply paint or clear...after 48 or more hours i scuff the rocket with #400 wet/dry, then shoot it. The result that ive had is some very decent paint jobs for someone of my VERY average skills.. ive had zero problems with Rustoleum clear attacking ANY decals to this point.

I have painted and cleared several r/c model race boats with Imron Automotive spray paint over the years, and i cant believe that Rustoleum rattlecan spray paint looks nearly as good as an automotive type paint finish.....and as i said, my painting skills are AT BEST merely average!

Oh, and i did want to mention that i did use Testors model gloss clearcoat over a Krylon paint job, and it worked fine....BUT the Testors clear is EXPENSIVE!!Like 5 + dollars for a TINY little can!!

frognbuff
03-17-2013, 11:05 PM
This what ive learned about finishing rockets...not that my way is correct, but this is what ive learned to this point....
Ive had no problem with Kryon paint, providing that im not loooking for a SUPER glossy finish......i have painted rockets with Krylon and they look fine as long as i do NOT use Krylon clear.

If i want a glossy finish, i use standard Rustoleum spray paint...if i put another color or clearcoat the rocket, i wait AT LEAST 48 HOURS before i apply paint or clear...after 48 or more hours i scuff the rocket with #400 wet/dry, then shoot it. The result that ive had is some very decent paint jobs for someone of my VERY average skills.. ive had zero problems with Rustoleum clear attacking ANY decals to this point.

I have painted and cleared several r/c model race boats with Imron Automotive spray paint over the years, and i cant believe that Rustoleum rattlecan spray paint looks nearly as good as an automotive type paint finish.....and as i said, my painting skills are AT BEST merely average!

Oh, and i did want to mention that i did use Testors model gloss clearcoat over a Krylon paint job, and it worked fine....BUT the Testors clear is EXPENSIVE!!Like 5 + dollars for a TINY little can!!

I'm with you Bill. I've learned to love Rustoleum. It looks fantastic. It can clog a bit (I keep spare spray nozzles just in case), and it dries VERY slowly - but man does it ever shine!

Maxx Mayhem
03-18-2013, 09:55 AM
I'm all but done with rat cans for other than primer and white base coats. I had built a screamer (bt-5) and hit it with this rustisbetterolium. Had problems but managed to end up with a good looking rocket. It is metal flake silver with a red cone, and weighs as much as a small building. If it will balance, I will use it for low altitude! I now try and airbrush everything, because you have not only better control, but as close to no paint weight as possible. Camo finishes look scale correct when done with an airbrush, I don't imagine I personally could get that with a spray can. Painting a car, for example, you want quite a lot of paint. I just did one so I can tell you it is the opposite of painting a rocket. I an doing LPR only at this time, and I want in most cases my rockets to look scale, whether they are scale models or not. I'll post pix when I have time, I have been using flat finish for most of my rockets. It is actually more work to prep for a flat finish, but they all seem to look better to my eye in flat.

ccollins
03-18-2013, 10:05 AM
I really appreciate all the responses. I sure have learned a lot about different finishing techniques for gloss coating. Right now, the nose cone is partially sanded down. It looks a bit ratty and appears as if it has been flown alot and had a hard life. To test, I bought one of those tiny cans of Testors dull coat lacquer and sprayed it on. Now - the nose cone is a nice flat black but with some white and gray primer showing through in various areas (including one "strip" that makes it look like it took a sliding dive on the ground), it looks like it has had a hard life but somehow survived!

The Testors is far and away a better product than the Krylon clear I have tried in the past. I felt relieved that I had found a product that worked but at the same time, a bit disappointed in the amount of fail I heaped upon what was otherwise a fine rocket. The price is too expensive for the tiny can but the daily coupons at Hobby Lobby will help alot. I think it looks ok (shabby style) and Ill leave it and fly it that way until I can get some replacement decals. I need to move on from this project and get a fresh start on something else - Estes PS II Argent up next.

Curtis

chrism
03-18-2013, 03:06 PM
I'm all but done with rat cans for other than primer and white base coats. I had built a screamer (bt-5) and hit it with this rustisbetterolium. Had problems but managed to end up with a good looking rocket. It is metal flake silver with a red cone, and weighs as much as a small building. If it will balance, I will use it for low altitude! I now try and airbrush everything, because you have not only better control, but as close to no paint weight as possible. Camo finishes look scale correct when done with an airbrush, I don't imagine I personally could get that with a spray can. Painting a car, for example, you want quite a lot of paint. I just did one so I can tell you it is the opposite of painting a rocket. I an doing LPR only at this time, and I want in most cases my rockets to look scale, whether they are scale models or not. I'll post pix when I have time, I have been using flat finish for most of my rockets. It is actually more work to prep for a flat finish, but they all seem to look better to my eye in flat.

For scale rockets, airbrushing is the way to go. Most of the paint lines carry the correct color your looking for. Plus you can airbrush indoors all year long in any kind of weather.

Marc_G
03-25-2013, 07:26 PM
+1 for airbrushing. I've gotten almost entirely away from rattlecan color coats, and moved to using acrylic paints from Createx, primarily their Wicked Colors line and Auto-Air.

I still like rattlecan Rustoleum Auto Filler Primer (lacquer based) and Valspar high gloss clear lacquer as a clear over either acrylic or lacquer paints (never on top of enamel, of course). These two rattlecan solutions spray fine in my experience down to 25 degrees F. With the clear, be careful about humidity in the summer... more than 60% RH and you will get blush/milking.

Otherwise, it's pretty much all airbrushing for me. I do like Future (Pledge) and use it often, and I airbrush on Liquitex high gloss varnish too.

Good luck with the repaint job. Looking forward to pictures.

Marc

Jim Lovell
03-26-2013, 07:04 PM
I asked my wife for some rocket supplies at Christmas time,and one thing I needed was a can of clear gloss coat. I usually use Testors. Guess what kind she got me-Krylon. Thank goodness I haven't used it on anything,and after reading the posts here,I'll probably pitch it.

ghrocketman
03-27-2013, 09:35 AM
You can use the Krylon over a Dope or Lacquer finish. Never use it over enamel. I use Testors Glosscote or Dullcote over all enamel finishes...it is always safe. I use Clear Butyrate over dope finishes.

chrism
03-27-2013, 11:27 PM
I spray Pledge (new name for old Future) unaltered from an airbrush. Spray isn't the right word. 'Hose' is much more accurate. I spray it on so heavy that all the excess runs off to the lowest point and drips away. Hang your nose cone upside down after you are done 'shooting' and let the Pledge run or drip off the point.
After spraying the rocket body down ( I spray a lot starting at the top of the BT and work down to the fins), let it sit on a stand and just let the Pledge flow to the lowest points of the fins, then just touch the droplets as they form. Decals sometimes will try to bead up the Pledge when I first spray, but I keep the airbrush spraying, just hosing the area down. The material is so thin, it levels nicely and evens as it spreads towards the fin low points.

I totally disagree with GH on the Pledge thing. Here, he does not know what he is talking about.
I use it on ALL of my rockets and model airplanes (for the decals, then use Testors Flat clear for the Camo jobs). GH is right about the Testors and Pactra Clears, though.
These Red Max pics are of one I built for a friend of mine. Christine had to send me a new decal for the top of the BT 'cause I messed mine up putting it on (the usual fantastic service from her and Estes). It was a nice build.
I had to download these off my phone, so their quality isn't super.

And I have fallen in love with this new (to me) Rustoleum "Painters Touch" paint, too!
Apple Red on the Max.
See for yourself...
Not only does Future make for a good gloss coat but it also makes a fine decal setting solution as well. And it has a pleasant smelling aroma as well!

ghrocketman
03-28-2013, 10:04 AM
Just don't like the entire future 'process'. Gimme spray Glosscote every time.
NOTHING compares to the pleasant smell of VOC-laden good old-fashioned Pactra Aero Gloss DOPE. Auto Lacquer gets close, but not the same 'olde-tyme' hobby-shop smell.

Bill Gibson
04-04-2013, 01:59 PM
Just don't like the entire future 'process'. Gimme spray Glosscote every time.
NOTHING compares to the pleasant smell of VOC-laden good old-fashioned Pactra Aero Gloss DOPE. Auto Lacquer gets close, but not the same 'olde-tyme' hobby-shop smell.

Ah YES! I remember the good days back in the 60s/70s hand brushing dope that Estes carried on my model rockets, and my Conrol line airplanes and doing it in a room with little to no ventilation......40 years later...im okay, okay, okay, okay, okay!! :D Also good ol Ambroid model cement.....remember that stuff?? WOOFF! I still use Pactra Sanding Sealer on my fins and NC, but it seems to be getting harder to aquire....!

VonMises
04-14-2013, 10:14 AM
Cool.

jetlag
04-15-2013, 08:36 AM
I love Duplicolor, especially the sandable primer ('High-build formula'). The price is roughly double what typical Krylon costs.
However, I am rapidly developing a love for the Rustoleum Painter's Touch brand of paint. It dries fast and hard and has a gloss better than any other paint I've tried. The gloss is really awesome. It works great over the Duplicolor Primer, too. It is about half the price of Duplicolor (about $3.77 at Wallyfart). The rattle can touts '2x the coverage' on the can. I don't think it's an enamel; Rustoleum's enamel paints are great, too, but they take a long while to dry completely.

Home Depot sells it also under a slightly different label (still Rustoleum), touting that it works for plastics, as well. The stuff at Wallyfart does not say a thing about the plastics, but is the same stuff.
I have not tried this brand's primer yet, but will let you know if no one else does. I just bought a can...

Allen

Doug Sams
04-15-2013, 09:37 AM
However, I am rapidly developing a love for the Rustoleum Painter's Touch brand of paint. It dries fast and hard and has a gloss better than any other paint I've tried. The gloss is really awesome. It works great over the Duplicolor Primer, too. It is about half the price of Duplicolor (about $3.77 at Wallyfart). The rattle can touts '2x the coverage' on the can. I don't think it's an enamel; Allen,

My take is that the Painter's Touch line is RustOleum's answer to Krylon's fast-drying paints. It uses hotter solvents than RustOleum's premium enamels, which make it dry faster. But, like Krylon - at least, like Krylon's old formula but likely their new as well - the fast drying Painter's Touch is more susceptible to blushing. So you need to either be in a low-humidity area or pick a dry day on which to paint.

I've gotten some wonderfully shiny, glossy finishes out of these hot-solvent ~enamels, but I've also gotten some very disappointing dull finishes as well. (Which is why I prefer the slow-drying premium RustOleum instead.)

BTW, I agree, the Duplicolor paints are more expensive, but they have some colors that are hard to find elsewhere.

Doug

.

ghrocketman
04-15-2013, 10:51 AM
For those into nitro glow-power R/C as well, one VERY good thing about Regular Rust-Oleum is that it is Hot Fuel Proof, just like Dope and Urethane finishes. Not sure about the "Painter's Touch" Rust Oleum, but know old-formula Krylon is NOT. Nitromethane and non-castor lubricants attack old-formula Krylon. Not sure about the new "runny" Krylon.

Doug Sams
04-15-2013, 11:10 AM
For those into nitro glow-power R/C as well, one VERY good thing about Regular Rust-Oleum is that it is Hot Fuel Proof, just like Dope and Urethane finishes. Not sure about the "Painter's Touch" Rust Oleum, but know old-formula Krylon is NOT. Nitromethane and non-castor lubricants attack old-formula Krylon. Not sure about the new "runny" Krylon.Good point. I've used alcohol to clean off regular (ie, premium) RustOleum with no ill effects. But it will dull the finish on old Krylon for sure.

Doug

.

jetlag
04-15-2013, 12:18 PM
Allen,

My take is that the Painter's Touch line is RustOleum's answer to Krylon's fast-drying paints. It uses hotter solvents than RustOleum's premium enamels, which make it dry faster. But, like Krylon - at least, like Krylon's old formula but likely their new as well - the fast drying Painter's Touch is more susceptible to blushing. So you need to either be in a low-humidity area or pick a dry day on which to paint.

I've gotten some wonderfully shiny, glossy finishes out of these hot-solvent ~enamels, but I've also gotten some very disappointing dull finishes as well. (Which is why I prefer the slow-drying premium RustOleum instead.)

BTW, I agree, the Duplicolor paints are more expensive, but they have some colors that are hard to find elsewhere.

Doug

.


Indeed, it does remind me of the old Krylon. Great observation! I've not seen the blushing issue, yet, but my shop is temp-controlled. During the Summer, the A/C seems to dry the air nicely. It is nice not to be dripping sweat onto whatever project I'm working on during the heat of Summer.
GH, I wonder how close to lacquer this stuff is? As I said, it sprayed over lacquer for me a couple of times without a hitch (unlike enamel sprayed over same).

The one issue I have had is the spray nozzle burped a bunch of air in the middle of a job. I had to wet-sand the one section affected on the Nike Hercules I've been trying to finish out (another thread).

Allen

ghrocketman
04-15-2013, 12:33 PM
Allen-
You have the Lacquer/Dope vs. Enamel deal backwards.
One can ALWAYS coat Enamel on top of fully dried Lacquer with no chance of ill results.
Lacquer applied over Enamel almost NEVER works and results in a crazed mixed-finish mess due to the 'hot' lacquer solvents dissolving the enamel beneath. The only way I know of to consistently be able to apply Lacquer over Enamel is if the Enamel had hardener/activator in the mix shot from a spray gun. Why one would ever do that makes no sense though.
That would be about as logical as topcoating Imron with anything but Imron Clear (if anything at all).

jetlag
04-15-2013, 08:39 PM
GH,
While what you say makes sense, why is it body shops used to spray lacquer over OEM paint all the time? I understood it was easier to match and dried quickly were the 2 main reasons it was used. So, lacquer is used over enamel.
My experience is lacquer over enamel; never enamel over lacquer. I'm sure depending on how 'hot' any non-polar solvent-based paint is would have an effect on the underlying finish.

No offense, but Dope sux.
It's expensive, many coats are needed for an opaque finish, and very little else can be used on it once you use it. It sprays poorly from my modeler's airbrushes, too.
I used to use dope all the time (sic), but it really was more trouble than it was worth. Other than for nostalgic purposes, I don't see the attraction to the stuff other than for light-weight, tissue-covered aircraft.

Allen

ghrocketman
04-16-2013, 08:50 AM
Auto Body Shops shoot SAME EXACT COLOR Lacquer over enamel in body work panel refinishing because it 'melds' into the original lower color enamel. That is the ONE instance where one actually wants the top to 'craze' into the lower finish. One would NEVER shoot DIFFERENT color Lacquer onto Enamel if they did not want a swirled up mess.

The very fact that Dope requires MANY coats to achieve a good finish is a BENEFIT, not a fault of that finishing system. It shows incredible depth and gloss without any need for clear due to this. One can also shoot just enough coats to be opaque (maybe three, sometimes 4 if light colors), than can just use clear for the gloss if desired.

PaulK
04-27-2013, 10:17 AM
FWIW, I put future on with a rag, just like I'm staining wood. Works fine, no runs. AFA clear cloat, I've successfully used Krylon clear over enamel, but it must be put on in very, very, light coats, letting it dry between each.

I miss old Krylon, but still have a few cans for certain projects.

chrism
04-27-2013, 06:55 PM
FWIW, I put future on with a rag, just like I'm staining wood. Works fine, no runs. AFA clear cloat, I've successfully used Krylon clear over enamel, but it must be put on in very, very, light coats, letting it dry between each.

I miss old Krylon, but still have a few cans for certain projects.

Because of the versatility of Future, it can be applied various ways. I have airbrushed, hand brushed and even used cotton swabs to apply it. I used it as a gloss cote and decal setting solution.