Products that were never released

[shrox]

I've got dozens.

[shrox]

Check out page 26 and 27...

http://www.questaerospace.com/instructions/2010_catalog.pdf

[ghrocketman]

This thread sounds great.
I would like to see an example of the "Black Hole Cygnus Probe Ship" kit that got produced, but had to be destroyed due to some movie executive clown revoking an approved design AFTER production.
My understanding is that a few escaped destruction....
Estes should have sued over that one and cut all future ties with Disney.

[dlazarus6660]

I still want the F-117 Stealth Nighthawk like they advertised in the July/August 1996 Sport Rocketry

[Initiator001]

Here is the brochure for the Estes Laser Launch Controller:

Thanks for posting this Craig! :D
Your filing/archive system is more organized than mine. :rolleyes:

THIS is exactly the sort of thing I wanted to see happen.
Sharing of information about these products.

[Jerry Irvine]

Here is the brochure for the Estes Laser Launch Controller:
Estes said "fumes". :D

[blackshire]

Check out page 26 and 27...

http://www.questaerospace.com/instructions/2010_catalog.pdfThose might hold a record for the most-advertised model rocket products that were never released...

[blackshire]

I still want the F-117 Stealth Nighthawk like they advertised in the July/August 1996 Sport RocketryI don't recall who makes/made it, but I've seen (in an R/C magazine--it might have been "Flying Models") a small, electric-powered EP foam F-117 model, which is/was small enough to be flown as a boost-glider.

[blackshire]

...One idea was to make the launching of a model rocket more involving. This lead to the idea of having a speaking/talking launch controller. A synthesized voice would sound a countdown and upon reaching zero the rocket would launch...I second George's suggestion--a YouTube demo video of your Laser Launch Controller would be very interesting! Also, speaking of talking launch controllers (no pun intended):

One that would enable the owner to record his or her own countdown (or maybe audio of Jack King counting down a Gemini or Apollo launch) would be interesting. It could also be used to record countdowns in other languages, which would be of interest, including to teachers. For example, a launch of a scale Kappa-7 model could be counted down using audio recorded from a Japanese sounding rocket firing in a YouTube video..."Ju, ku, hachi, nana, roku, go, yan, san, ni, ichi, zero!" (Also, MPC's Vostok kit contained a countdown card that gave the 5-second countdown in Russian, phonetically written [see: http://www.oldrocketplans.com/mpc/mpc3-0700/mpc3-0700.pdf ].)

[dlazarus6660]

I don't recall who makes/made it, but I've seen (in an R/C magazine--it might have been "Flying Models") a small, electric-powered EP foam F-117 model, which is/was small enough to be flown as a boost-glider.

Was this plane in the R/C mag what Estes based their F-117 model on?

I'll have to look for this article. Thanks.

[ghrocketman]

What was the year that Quest heavily touted their "coming soon" vaporware 18mm D and their vaporware line of 29mm BP Thunderjets ?
I have not trusted a word from that company or spent a dime on their products since that FIASCO announcement. They never did give any legitimate explanation of those not being delivered. My understanding was that supposedly thousands were produced....better to sell at a loss than destroy them...made no sense nor did we ever get any explanation.
Always OVER Deliver and UNDER Promise !
If there is ANY chance of a product NOT making it to market, DON'T announce it.
Estes only had a couple minor announcements for products that did not make it since the Cylon Raider/Cygnus Probe Ship Fiascos....they "wised up".
Quite frankly though I'm surprised we got BP E and F motors from Estes which is nice, would be nicer if they were port-burners though. I thought return of the B14/B8/C5 would have been far more likely than 29mm BP from Estes.

[blackshire]

Was this plane in the R/C mag what Estes based their F-117 model on?

I'll have to look for this article. Thanks.I don't know if Estes based their F-117 model on any other company's F-117 R/C model; I just noted that one I saw in an ad in a model aviation magazine (I think it was "Flying Models) looked small enough to be usable as a boost-glider. The company that made/makes it (E-flight?) also made/makes an F-86 model that was also shown in the ad along with their F-117 model (all of their models were made of EPP foam) and they were pretty small for R/C models. Here are links to numerous R/C F-117 models (see: https://www.google.com/#q=rc+f-117 ).

[chrism]

What was the year that Quest heavily touted their "coming soon" vaporware 18mm D and their vaporware line of 29mm BP Thunderjets ?
I have not trusted a word from that company or spent a dime on their products since that FIASCO announcement. They never did give any legitimate explanation of those not being delivered. My understanding was that supposedly thousands were produced....better to sell at a loss than destroy them...made no sense nor did we ever get any explanation.
Always OVER Deliver and UNDER Promise !
If there is ANY chance of a product NOT making it to market, DON'T announce it.
Estes only had a couple minor announcements for products that did not make it since the Cylon Raider/Cygnus Probe Ship Fiascos....they "wised up".
Quite frankly though I'm surprised we got BP E and F motors from Estes which is nice, would be nicer if they were port-burners though. I thought return of the B14/B8/C5 would have been far more likely than 29mm BP from Estes.


Don't forget their German Klima engines!

[blackshire]

Don't forget their German Klima engines!Were those motors -other- than their 18 mm "A" through "C" black powder ones? Some of Quest's post-accident (at their former motor production plant) "A" - "C" motors are/were German-made, while others are of Chinese manufacture, but I don't know if Klima was/is that German motor maker. (Quest's new, paper-cased MicroMaxx motors are also made in Germany, but I don't know if Klima is their manufacturer.) Also:

Quest touted upcoming 13 mm motors (which never came out) for a while, and they even sold 13 mm to 18 mm motor adapter mounts for them. But because they were to be variable-length like the Chinese Sky company's 13 mm motors, I wouldn't be surprised if Quest had intended to sell re-branded Sky motors (the 13 mm motors--whatever their origin was--did appear on the NAR certified motors list at around that time). It's too bad those 13 mm motors never hit the market, because they included (if memory serves) a "B" motor. If Quest's new owners picked up that ball again, those motors could come to fruition.

[chrism]

The Klima engines were supposed to be the new Quest engines as reported by Leo. They never made it here.

[Jerry Irvine]

I for one know how difficult it is to bring a BP motor to market at all and am not the least bit surprised all his strong work resulted in nill and a bunch of wasted capital that would have been better off in his 401-k.

One advantage to APCP motors by comparison is the propellant is not an explosive and while some vendors ship it with explosives labeling, it burns below the rate of the threshold for even a flammable solid.

Even though I looked forward to Quest motors as well, and saw some photos of prototypes and non-rebranded bulk quantities, the compliance layer is ridiculous and designed to kill business not merely make it safe.

Jerry

[Jerry Irvine]

All promised Quest motors released and all AVI motors re-released.

April fools! :(

[Rocket Babe]

The two I remember were both in the distant past and Estes. One was something about a Cylon fighter and the other was a neat looking rocket that had a tie in to an astronaut. Jay somebody?

Verna
www.vernarockets.com
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HHJHOK6
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00O14ET8K
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[surdumil]

Here's the Cylon Fighter from the 1979 Estes Catalog, from the Ninfinger Productions website and the Star Booster from the 1997 Estes Catalog. Would these be the two?

Also, here's a better view of the F117 from the 1996 Estes Catalog.

They're all very nice looking products. It's unfortunate that they didn't meet market.

[blackshire]

Here's the Cylon Fighter from the 1979 Estes Catalog, from the Ninfinger Productions website and the Star Booster from the 1997 Estes Catalog. Would these be the two?

Also, here's a better view of the F117 from the 1996 Estes Catalog.

They're all very nice looking products. It's unfortunate that they didn't meet market.Today's 3D printing technology could make these models "come to life," so to speak (more on this below). Thank you for posting those scans--I knew when the Cylon Raider was in an Estes catalog, but I couldn't recall when the F-117 and the Star Booster were. Also:

Buzz Aldrin's Star Booster, which his now-apparently-defunct company, Starcraft Boosters, Inc., designed (see: https://www.google.com/#q=Buzz+Aldrin+Star+Booster and https://www.google.com/#q=starcraft+boosters ), went through a few design iterations during the project's lifetime. They also test-launched sub-scale models of the various designs, using large consumer rocket motors for propulsion. The version of the Star Booster that the never-released Estes kit depicted (and possibly the other versions) would have used a Russian Zenit LOX/kerosene-powered first stage, which would have slid into the booster's aluminum airframe. In addition:

There is more information on this Star Booster version--the model kit as well as the full-scale vehicle--*here* (see: http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=6631 ), and mojo1986's Reply #6 includes the kit's specifications. Knowing these, Aerobotix (see: http://www.shapeways.com/shops/cespedesign-multimedia?s=0#more-products ) or Boyce Aerospace Hobbies (see: http://boyceaerospacehobbies.com ) could produce a Star Booster model (using the material on it that's available online). Now:

Such a model, with a thin-walled 3D printed plastic fuselage (plus Zenit display nozzles) and balsa wings and tail surfaces, could be flown as a boost-glider with a rear-ejecting motor pod. The pod could be ballasted up front (as with the Estes Space Shuttle #1467, see: https://www.estesrockets.com/media/instructions/001467_SPACE_SHUTTLE.pdf ) and be parachute-recovered. One or two "auxiliary" fins (made of clear plastic or balsa) could be affixed to the rear end of the Star Booster's motor pod (which would protrude a couple of inches out the back end of the fuselage), to ensure the model's stability about all axes during the rocket-powered and pre-ejection coasting portions of its ascent. I would happily buy several of these Star Booster kits (they would be classified as Concept Scale models) if someone produced them, and I think many other folks would buy them, too.

[shrox]

...Such a model, with a thin-walled 3D printed plastic fuselage (plus Zenit display nozzles) and balsa wings and tail surfaces, could be flown as a boost-glider with a rear-ejecting motor pod. The pod could be ballasted up front (as with the Estes Space Shuttle #1467, see: https://www.estesrockets.com/media/instructions/001467_SPACE_SHUTTLE.pdf ) and be parachute-recovered. One or two "auxiliary" fins (made of clear plastic or balsa) could be affixed to the rear end of the Star Booster's motor pod (which would protrude a couple of inches out the back end of the fuselage), to ensure the model's stability about all axes during the rocket-powered and pre-ejection coasting portions of its ascent. I would happily buy several of these Star Booster kits (they would be classified as Concept Scale models) if someone produced them, and I think many other folks would buy them, too.

I'll do it.

[Initiator001]

Folks,

I've established a new thread just for posting the products that were never produced from my personal collection and comments about said items.

The original thread remains for general discussion on the subject.

[blackshire]

I'll do it.Excellent--I'm glad to read this!

[Rocket Babe]

Here's the Cylon Fighter from the 1979 Estes Catalog, from the Ninfinger Productions website and the Star Booster from the 1997 Estes Catalog. Would these be the two?

Yep, those are the ones I was thinking about.

Thanks!

Verna
www.vernarockets.com
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HHJHOK6
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00O14ET8K
https://www.facebook.com/RocketBabeDustStorm

[Eagle3]

In the spirit of this thread I thought I'd post a few kits that didn't make it. In the early 90's I was working on the side at THOY mainly helping with cutting and prepping parts. Fins and rings were cut in house. Fins with a band saw and rings with a series of fly cutters on a drill press. We also cut tubes to length with jigs on a drill press. We also made some of the nicest nylon chutes available at the time. Fun work and I really treasure those memories with Rich, Jackie, and their daughters.

Rich had wanted to get into the smaller kit market and asked me to come up with some designs that flew on 18mm motors. I came up with and prototyped seven. Rich liked them all and decided to kit four right away. He wanted to debut them at the Chicago show that year. Those were the Taz, Macron, Thura, and Cluros. To this day I still suck at naming kits. A couple of the names I borrowed from the the John Carter of Mars book by Edgar Rice Burroughs.

There were three that didn't make the initial cut. A scale Nike Smoke, a futuristic design called Tavia, and a rear engine BG called the USS Intrepid. I still have the prototypes of those three. The Nike Smoke is still unpainted. It didn't make production due to the nose cone. The prototype cone was turned from pine on Rich's lathe. We didn't want to do that for production and he hadn't found a source for them. The Intrepid operated much like the Sky Dart and flew great. I demo'd it at NARAM 34 and it got a lot of positive attention. It needed more work on the elevon release and we just ran out of time. The Tavia also flew great, but I think Rich was holding it back to see how well the first four did.

I left THOY just before the Chicago show when I became too busy at work. Rich told me later the show went well for him and the four initial kits went into production. He did say Estes accused him plagiarizing one of their designs. ^_^ This would have been right around the time they were feeling threatened by Aerotech, so they were probably feeling defensive.

I believe it was about a year later when Rich sold THOY to Rocket R&D minus all of the 18mm kits and parts. I think Bob Jablonski purchased the 18mm stuff, but he can confirm that. Here are a couple of photos of the Tavia and Intrepid. The plans for the Tavia are online HERE (http://www-personal.umich.edu/~buzznau/plans.html) . Maybe this will motivate me to finish the Intrepid plans.

[ghrocketman]

That Intrepid looks a LOT like the Sky Dart and could understand the concern by Estes.

[Eagle3]

That Intrepid looks a LOT like the Sky Dart and could understand the concern by Estes.


Did you even read what I posted? The Intrepid was not produced and did not make it to Chicago. Estes never saw it. Besides that point, it looks nothing like a Skydart except it has a delta wing.

[jeffyjeep]

Back in 2010 I had the pleasure of building only one Thoy kit--the Cluros.

[Eagle3]

:) Looks just like the prototype. I have no idea where those ended up. Maybe Bob hs them.

[jeffyjeep]

:) Looks just like the prototype. I have no idea where those ended up. Maybe Bob hs them.

It was my goal to finish it to look just like the model on the kit's face card.

[5x7]

Rich had wanted to get into the smaller kit market and asked me to come up with some designs that flew on 18mm motors. I came up with and prototyped seven. Rich liked them all and decided to kit four right away. He wanted to debut them at the Chicago show that year. Those were the Taz, Macron, Thura, and Cluros.

I have a THOY 18 mm kit called Imp. Semroc's classics list you as the designer, could that be the Taz?

[Eagle3]

I have a THOY 18 mm kit called Imp. Semroc's classics list you as the designer, could that be the Taz?

You're correct. Taz was the initial name we gave it and that's what is on my original plans. We changed it so we didn't run afoul of Warner Brothers. :)

[Rocket Babe]

snip...

The thumbnail is small but at first glance the one launching from the pad reminds me of Space Ghost's Phantom Cruiser. :)

Verna
www.vernarockets.com
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HHJHOK6
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00O14ET8K
https://www.facebook.com/RocketBabeDustStorm