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View Full Version : Another STUPID Mini-Brute Mosquito…..


Blastfromthepast
07-21-2016, 10:13 AM
EEEyup…it’s a minor ‘side project’ on my BAR build list. On the workbench right now, in fact.

So here’s the MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION: Why on earth should anyone in their right mind want to build and launch one of these things?

ANSWER: (Insert cricket noises here)

I built three of these miserable birds during my 1973-83 stint in model rocketry. It was the typical “5…4..3…2..1… Whoosh….Disappear” scenario common to these elusive little…er…rockets.

The only one of the three I didn’t lose is the one that never got flown under power.
So why do I torture myself with number 4? ‘Specially now that I’m old and the eyesight ain’t what it used to be.

I think it has everything to do with the fact that the Estes Mosquito actually does have a distinct purpose (unlike its namesake).

That purpose – the only reason Mosquitos exist – the only reason they are still in the Estes catalog line-up going on 35 years – the only reason the kits still hang on the hooks at Hobby Lobby – is that very attribute of being an extreme challenge to fly and successfully recover. Getting one of these back after a launch is almost a Rite of Passage for any self-respecting Rocketeer who is worth his weight in BP.

This being said, I’m going to make a shocking statement:

This build of the Mosquito is getting the complete works – filled fins, filled body tube and launch lug seams, primer paint….everything that normally gets done to bigger, nicer birds that are expected to be found and flown more than once.

Why am I going to all of this time and effort? Because I fully expect this bird to be a ‘Shelf Queen’ between launches. I am determined to not lose this thing after I launch it. In fact my goal is to get in 10 launches and successful recoveries of this particular Mosquito.

Maybe after that is accomplished, I’ll forego the ‘Shelf Queen’ thing and shove an A10 in it and send it off to wherever lost Mosquitos go.

Heck, why not go all out and give it a grand final send-off – stack it on top of a couple of A10-0T booster stages!

So, what are the keys to flying a Mosquito and getting it back?

The first and foremost thing to realize is that the Mosquito has nothing going for it recovery-wise other than its color scheme. No bright ‘chutes or streamers here.

Therefore, it is imperative to adorn the model with a finish that includes color components that can be detected in any environment or against any backdrop.

My model will have the following:

1. Black nose cone and one black fin. This could help with possibly being able to see the model against a light sky. Not too much help, however, on the ground.
2. A wide band of reflective silver wrap. Enough reflective flashes of sunlight might be helpful in trying to see the model in the air during its descent.
3. Bright Fluorescent paint on the remainder of the model. Orange would probably be wise here, as it would provide the best contrast against whatever medium in which the model lands.

Some other factors that might be helpful in the successful return of a Mosquito:

4. Don’t airfoil the fins. This bird doesn’t need any optimization of speed and altitude performance. In fact, the best practice would probably be to leave the fin edges squared.
5. Use of low impulse engines. We’re talking ¼A….period. Anything bigger sends it way too high and too fast to even possibly get tracked.
6. Fly in a large unobstructed field, preferably mown green grass. The enemy here is tall grass or weeds. Trying to find a tiny 3” long model rocket in anything but a manicured lawn is futile. Plus a bright green surface area would be the most ideal for detecting a small brightly painted/reflective object. (I suppose flying on the Salt Flats like our friends in Utah would be OK, too!)
7. Absolute vertical launch rod. What goes straight up, should come straight down –and stay within the immediate vicinity. In theory, of course. In reality, the model will get thrown off of the straight up, straight down flight path by the engine ejection charge. This would serve to propel the vehicle some distance in whichever direction it was pointed when the engine discharged.
8. Fly on a calm day. Even a slight breeze would prevent the model from landing nearby. The object here is to have the Mosquito come in as close to the launch pad as possible.
9. Listen for the almost imperceptible ‘thunk’ of the model impacting the ground.

Well there it is…another relatively useless project for me to delve into. Might as well make the most of any LPR.

Maybe the art of Mosquito recovery could be made into some sort of an R& D report.

Or even a NAR Pink Book event – Imagine, if you will “1/8A through A class Mosquito Recovery Duration”. The object would be to launch a stock Mosquito, find it, and return it to the judge’s table within a five minute time window. Winner is the bloke who can present his bird in the shortest time.

Anyway, I’ll be sure and post pics and results of this mighty endeavor right here.

DavidQ
07-21-2016, 10:25 AM
Absolute vertical launch rod. What goes straight up, should come straight down –and stay within the immediate vicinity. In theory, of course. In reality, the model will get thrown off of the straight up, straight down flight path by the engine ejection charge. This would serve to propel the vehicle some distance in whichever direction it was pointed when the engine discharged.

I had an accidental discovery with my 4th and 5th grade rocket class this year, with mosquito clones, and think I have a better method.

As you mention, when the ejection pushes the heavy engine casing in one direction, the tiny mosquito goes in the opposite direction. That, I think, is where they are likely to become lost. If the rocket is launched straight up, then at apogee it will tip in some direction based on myriad factors and aim in one of myriad directions when the ejection happens, and get lost.

Instead, we were launching our mosquito clones at an angled path with an angled rod - about 10 to 15 degrees, IIRC. When it hit apogee, it arced over in the same direction it was flying. When the ejection charge occurred, it kept going in the same direction. We had kids down at the end of the field so were launching toward their position. We only lost 2 of 12 mosquito clones.

Don’t airfoil the fins.
How about putting them on at a right angle to what we normally think? That is, the sides of the fin become the leading and trailing edge of the fin. :-)

Blastfromthepast
07-21-2016, 10:41 AM
Hmmmm...very good points, these....

Hadn't thought of aiming the rod for a more predictable ejection flight path.

Also, if one lacks a down-range recovery crew like you had, it might be wise to, instead of tracking the entire flight overhead, fix one's eyes on the horizon in the general area where one thinks the rocket will ultimately land based on launch angle, and look for a flash of sunlight or color.

Kudos on your recovery record!

Daddyisabar
07-21-2016, 04:13 PM
A few years ago COSROCs had a contest on launching Mosquitoes and recovering with in a certain time. Lots of recovery tricks used. If the COSROCs president is at lunch tomorrow he can fill you in on all the details.

hcmbanjo
07-21-2016, 05:08 PM
So, what are the keys to flying a Mosquito and getting it back?

LUCK and using a 1/4A3-3t engine.

There have been a few times where I've lost sight of a Mosquito at launch. I hear the ejection and walk the area looking for it, only to find it within a 20 foot radius of the launcher.
You're right - bright colors and a mowed grass field.

ghrocketman
07-21-2016, 06:47 PM
Here are the keys to getting a Mosquito back almost every time-

1) Fluorescent Orange finish- NO exceptions !
2) Use of NO more than 1/4A power, MMX (10mm 1/8A) motors even better.
3) Fly in next to ZERO wind.

That sums it up.
I TRIED to lose one twice on fire-n-forget missions with a MPC B3-5m and an Estes A3-6T and got the darned thing back both times. I think it landed both times within 30' of the pad !

mwtoelle
07-21-2016, 07:19 PM
Convert the Mosquito to rear ejection with a streamer using MicroMaxx motors. On one of the MMXII motors it will eject during ascent. I haven't tried one on one of the older MMXI motors yet.

chronister
07-26-2016, 09:03 AM
I really liked the idea of putting the fins on sideways to limit the altitude. You could make it spin, and it might make a buzzing sound that would allow you to catch sight of it after initially disappearing from the launch pad. That would be really cool. Probably still wouldn't see it in the grass though. :)

tbzep
07-26-2016, 09:22 AM
In all seriousness I'll add a couple items to what GH said. Fly alone or with a friend with good eyesight and hearing in quiet area, not at a club launch. Listen closely and hear it land, look that direction. If you are on bare or very low cut ground, you will find it sooner or later.

neil_w
07-26-2016, 10:48 AM
Of course you should looks the through the excellent practical suggestions in DavidQ's other related thread (http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=16115&page=1).

One semi-serious idea would be to use a cheap thermal imaging camera to scan the ground around the launch area and look for a hot spot. Something that'll plug into a smartphone like the Seek (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NYWABAA/ref=ox_sc_mini_detail?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER) or the Flir One (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VILVV62/ref=ox_sc_mini_detail?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER).

I wonder if, after the motor is ejected, the shell of the rocket will retain enough heat to be findable this way. I bet it would work great for rockets that don't eject the motor, since they should stay nice and hot for a while, and should stand out on a thermal scan. Also, maybe the Mosquito is just too small to be found in this way.

Obviously no one (?) would spend $200+ just to help recover a Mosquito, but it could be an interesting tool to have at a launch.

Just idly thinkin'.

sandman
07-26-2016, 11:07 AM
Just for some added weight and the shape is close enough I've used popsicle sticks as fins.

While driving to NARAM 45 with JimZ he built 4 Mosquitos in the car using popsicle sticks as fins.

He lost them all but he wasn't out much.

I saw he lost them all...but really he didn't even look for them.

mojo1986
07-26-2016, 12:34 PM
Convert the Mosquito to rear ejection with a streamer using MicroMaxx motors. On one of the MMXII motors it will eject during ascent. I haven't tried one on one of the older MMXI motors yet.

Interesting. What's the difference between MMXI and MMXII motors? Are both types still available from retailers?

Joe

chrism
07-26-2016, 12:45 PM
I wish you luck sir!

tbzep
07-26-2016, 02:58 PM
Interesting. What's the difference between MMXI and MMXII motors? Are both types still available from retailers?

Joe

The II is nearly double the impulse, something like .22 N-s, where the I is about .13 N-s, IIRC.

K'Tesh
07-26-2016, 06:24 PM
Chrome Trim Monokote (or Scotch brand Chrome tape) on both sides of one of the fins and/or a wrap around the body tube may get you a sparkle in the sunlight and help you track the rocket as it descends. Not so useful when the sun isn't out. So, keep the others a bright color.

Inducing a roll to the fins also may help. There's a thread over on TRF (http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?134988-Flew-my-first-Mosquito-today) where someone did that and was able to get their Mosquito back.


My interpretation of the original TK-1 kit (slight change to the paint, and minus the decals)

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8610/28470380872_2424219a65_o.png (https://flic.kr/p/KnQ9kJ)

BTW: I realize that the motor could be fully inserted inside the body tube.

mwtoelle
07-26-2016, 06:59 PM
Interesting. What's the difference between MMXI and MMXII motors? Are both types still available from retailers?

Joe

MMXI motors have a plastic case and are rated by S&T as a 1/12A motor. The MMXII motors have a paper case and are rated by S&T as a 1/8A motor. The MMXII motors also have a shorter delay before ejection. You can read about the differences here (MMXI): http://www.nar.org/SandT/pdf/Quest/MicroMaxx.pdf and here: http://www.nar.org/SandT/pdf/Quest/MicroMaxxII.pdf . MMXII motors were produced so you could get a little more altitude out of the Quest LPBs (Little Plastic Bricks).

Check the MicroMax section at hat other forum for some inspiration for ideas. Note that building rockets this small will require some extra tools (tweezers, glue applicators, etc.) to deal with the little pieces. If you are really interested, check out the Micro-to-the-Maxx line at Fliskits.

mojo1986
07-26-2016, 07:30 PM
Thanks for the info, guys. I've got about 100 of those MMXII engines. Sorry for getting off topic in this thread..............

Joe

tbzep
07-26-2016, 08:49 PM
Thanks for the info, guys. I've got about 100 of those MMXII engines. Sorry for getting off topic in this thread..............

Joe
That's a full D cluster! (technically a hair into E territory)

mojo1986
07-26-2016, 09:04 PM
That's a full D cluster! (technically a hair into E territory) :chuckle:

That's a darned expensive D! I think the little suckers cost me about a buck apiece!

grog
07-26-2016, 09:28 PM
A few years ago COSROCs had a contest on launching Mosquitoes and recovering with in a certain time. Lots of recovery tricks used. If the COSROCs president is at lunch tomorrow he can fill you in on all the details.

That was probably the May Mania Fun contest held in 2009. You had to launch a Mosquito on a 1/2A motor, recover the Mosquito, and return it to the Contest Director's table. You were timed from the launch until the rocket was returned, with a max time limit of 10 minutes. Of the 10 Mosquitoes launched at the contest, only 2 were returned within the time limit. I think 4 or 5 were never found.

Greg

Newbomb Turk
08-11-2016, 07:12 PM
Personally, I think successful recovery depends on using several of the methods discussed. Angling the rod slightly certainly helps. Also having more than one set of eyes. I never fly mine without RC Sandy around. Most importantly to me, though, is a closely mowed field. The Newbomb Turk Memorial Launching Facility is perfect.
When I first became a BAR I built one on a whim. Sandy loved it. I should have lost it on the first flight as it came down in slightly higher grass in between fields. I had an idea of directions, though, and somehow saw the tips of the fins sticking up. Flew that one 18 times before losing it. Mosquito number two flew nine times before it escaped. Number three was lost two weeks ago on its tenth flight. That was the first time I had pressed the button and had it just disappear. I always paint them standard gloss yellow with black accent, and use 1/2 A 3 - 2 T s.
I also have the orange and black one pictured in my Mid-80s Find thread. It has flown four times since rediscovering it and is still with us.