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MarkB.
07-30-2018, 11:46 PM
Conrades:

I though I'd share a picture of my glider program during the building stage. As mentioned elsewhere, I am trying to build something to qualify for my NARTrek Silver requirement. The short version is I need a thirty-second glide, something I'm just not going to ever get from the Centuri X-24s and clones that have heretofore been the only glide-back design I had ever successfully flown.

So on the build board are Semroc Swift, Estes Firefly and scratch design based on the Firefly that I built as a kid, but like my original Firefly, was destroyed upon impact with rocky terrain. Finally, a FlyBaby, the plans for which Chas. Russell kindly posted on this forum earlier this year is also in pieces on the board. The engine pods are built and painted, the only deviation on those was that I covered the front of the Swift engine hook (the white one) with a piece of cardstock.

The scratch design, on the cradle, was the surviving wing from my childhood which was painted red, probably with Testors Flat Red at some point. New tail feathers, colored with yellow highlighter and most importantly, a spruce fuse that should allow at least some chance of successful flight. * It needs a little lead tape on the nose and its ready to fly, likely off my Big Bertha.

LIke the scratch glider, the Firefly clone is getting a spruce fuselage. Other than that, it's per the plans. Like all of the other gliders in the picture, everything has a coat of SIG clear dope and will be tissued. I know I don't have to tissue, but since I hadn't used dope and tissue for at least 45 years, I kinda wanted to see if I could. I have various colors of tissue so I will not be using the very pigment-heavy, colored dope.

I'm planning on starting the covering tomorrow. I'll post pictures.


* "Successful flight" at our cosmodrome is defined as the ability to refly the article immediately following recovery without repair of any kind.

Blastfromthepast
08-03-2018, 08:41 AM
Good looking group of glider parts. You should be able to knock something together out of that group to satisfy the NARTrek requirements.
I've attached a picture of me and a FlyBaby B/G, circa 1982. I recall that the FB was a nicely performing bird.
Gliders are lots of fun! Good luck.

ghrocketman
08-03-2018, 09:42 AM
One great boost glider you could clone is the Estes Dragonfly.
Mine always turned in good times.

MarkB.
08-05-2018, 08:13 AM
Progress:

Fly Baby covered. Came out well enough that my son said I'd lose it on the first flight. (Thanks, son). Covering is good old-fashoned dope and tissue. The bottles in the picture are SIG Supercoat (butyrate), SIG Dope Thinner and a bottle with Acetone to clean the brush. Tissue is from SWMBO's vast hoard, but she thinks she got it from Hobby Lobby. I used the cheapy brush. Here are the exact steps I took:

1) Using the dope unthinned, I brushed on a coat to all of the surfaces to receive tissue;.
2) wait 48 hours, then very lightly sand with 400 grit (you are trying not to remove the dope);
3) cut the tissue with about a 1/8" to 1/4" extra around the edges (edges are the tricky part);
4) place the tissue over the surface you are covering and brush on Dope Thinner to hold it in place;
5) immediately brush unthinned dope on to the soaked tissue including the edges; I brushed with the grain;
6) let it sit for a minute or two, then, using your fingers, fold the edges and press them against the other side (I did bottom surfaces first);
7) clean your brush in Acetone, dry it on a paper towel, admire your work thus far and return to step three for another surface.

Getting the tissue to wrap around the edges was the tricky part, especially around the little tail pieces. Making lots of little micro cuts to the tissue where there are curves before you soak it helps a lot. The wing was easier, probably because its bigger and sturdier.

Probably should use rubber gloves and not get dope on your skin.

For whatever reason, the yellow tissue went down easier than the orange. I'm going to try other colors on the other two gliders. Can't fool around or get off task either because the Thinner flashes off very quickly. Also the tissue is very fragile when soaked so there is minimal repositioning available.

So there you have it; I feel like I've rediscovered an Ancient Skill.

BARGeezer
08-05-2018, 01:18 PM
Nicely done. So, I assume you did some balsa and tissue model airplanes as a youth?

MarkB.
08-05-2018, 06:38 PM
Yes, a few. The last one I remember was a Comet Nieuport 11 that flew great.

During the Nixon Administration.

A Fish Named Wallyum
08-05-2018, 08:51 PM
I bought a huge multi-pack of colored tissue several years ago for a project that never quite got off the ground. I might dig some of it out and see how it works on the NAR Plans Jet Freak and AMROCS Wombat that I've been experimenting with lately. The paint has yet to be friendly to the glide portion of the flight.

MarkB.
08-12-2018, 07:48 PM
I decided to build a Vashon X-13 from the plans on JimZ. It is similar but not identical to the Estes Firefly. The X-13 has a longer nose moment and a larger wing (more cord and span). I noticed that the Vashon kit came with some Monokote to cover it. Does anybody have one who could tell me what color Monokote came with it? Or if you remember? I have a fairly large stash of Monokote from my R/C days so I'd love to cover it "authentically".

BARGeezer
08-12-2018, 08:25 PM
On Tom's Vashon page he has it covered in orange monokote. Disclaimer: I don't know if that is the original color or if he customized it. He says that he did not construct it from a kit.

http://www.mindspring.com/~vashon/x13.html

On his home page he has an email address, don't know if it's still active. Good luck!

EDIT: Vashon catalog page says "Brilliant orange monokote puts the finishing touch on the X-13".

http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/catalogs/vashon/vashon14.html


Pics after, please.

jeffyjeep
08-12-2018, 09:55 PM
One great boost glider you could clone is the Estes Dragonfly.
Mine always turned in good times.

I'll second that! ....and if you need a Dragonfly wing decal, I have a couple of them.

Here's (3) Dragonflies I did many years ago. All of them were hand painted by "The Vixen".

Blastfromthepast
08-13-2018, 12:23 PM
JeffyJeep,
That 3rd Dragonfly looks like it would be very interesting to try to find after it lands!

Chas Russell
08-13-2018, 12:40 PM
MarkB. Nice looking Fly Baby! I flew a 69% version in 1/2A BG last week at NARAM 60. Two good flights, but did not find good air.
I am looking forward to hearing how your flights go.

Chas

jeffyjeep
08-13-2018, 09:37 PM
JeffyJeep,
That 3rd Dragonfly looks like it would be very interesting to try to find after it lands!
Good point! It was so long ago that I don’t remember, but I do know that I try to make them easy to track in flight by coloring the undersides of the wings black.

The camouflage painter, my beloved “Vixen” will be out of the hand painting business for a long time—she’s having shoulder surgery this week. MY hand painting skills don’t even come close to hers.

While she’s “under” I’ll ask the doc to shorten her feet a little. So she can stand closer to the kitchen sink.

No, she doesn’t read these posts. :D

MarkB.
08-14-2018, 11:32 PM
Guys,

Here's a picture of an Estes Firefly clone and a Vashon X-13 clone, side by side.

These are clones built from the instructions on JimZ and on YORS. the fuselages have been replaced by spruce of the same length and the addition, on the X-13, of a small dowel on the nose in place of the elaborate elastic system required for flying off of Cold-Power rockets . The X-13 is slightly shorter. The tail surfaces are identical; on the Firefly the vertical stab is reversed. The X-13 wing is slightly larger in both span and cord but not by much.

Obviously, the position of the parts is different. The X-13 nose is longer making it need less weight to achieve a good glide. The X-13 also has a keel piece under the wing which makes it very easy to hand-launch. Right off the bench, the X-13 is almost ready to fly without nose weight; the Firefly isn't even close.

The last step is covering. The X-13 gets MonoKoted. I located both some Orange MonoKote and my MonoKote iron which hadn't been used in at least 15 years. It did come up to heat right away. The Firefly will be getting dope and tissue. Both should be done this weekend. When they are covered I should have a better idea of how much ballast they'll each need.

MarkB.
09-01-2018, 12:38 PM
Here they are finished.

The Firefly (closest to camera) is covered in tissue in a red/orange/yellow hambre scheme. The fuse is natural wood with a cardstock reenforcement of the nose and dowel area. I'll wrap golfer's lead tape around the nose for balancing and it'll be ready to fly.

The X-13 is covered in orange Monokote as per the original. The fuse is hand-painted with Tamiya black acrylic as it appears that the original Vashon kit had a black stick as well. It also has a single wrap of cardstock around the nose and dowel but it balances without any lead. It hand-launches perfectly and glides well. Monkote'ing the tiny tail pieces was certainly a challenge. Although the Monokote is heavier than tissue, it looks better and probably adds more strength. The overall weight should be lower on the X-13 because it needs no ballast.


Maybe a launch next weekend, weather permitting.

MarkB.
09-16-2018, 07:27 AM
Well,

The gliders are all ready for launch. I'm going to plug the Golfworks High Density lead tape I used. Golfers use this tape to weight their clubs in different ways to promote or reduce slices and draws or to make the ball launch higher or lower. It comes in a 75 ft. roll which means I will misplace and not be able to find it long before I use the whole thing. A short piece was all that was needed to balance the Fly Baby, Firefly and my scratch built. Only 74.5 feet to go. It cuts with an E-Xacto knike and the adhesive backing is strong enough to stay on a golf club so it should be OK on a rocket.

Too windy to launch this weekend so no report yet.

Questor
09-16-2018, 11:05 AM
I use the fishing stickon lead weights which I found at BassPro shops in disc and strips to help trim my gliders. a lot less than a large gob of clay. clay used for fine tuning. I await your flight report.

MarkB.
10-20-2018, 06:55 PM
Well,

No flight report yet. The weather's been terrible for the last two weeks, either rain or wind. Today was steady 30 mph wind with gusts to 45.

In the mean time, I built a dedicated Glider-Launching-Rocket out of spare parts. It's 18" of BT-56 (actually two scrap pieces with a coupler), the usual Estes plastic cone and a Semroc ST-13 engine mount. For fun, I decided to give the rocket a Vashon/CoolPower theme so I used the fin pattern from the X-13 sheet and a Mylar parachute. Paint is CoolPower style. The Chrome and Black are Dupicolor; the Orange and White are Rustoleum.


Here it is against this afternoon's angry Texas sky. Note the permanently mounted launch lugs for single glider or double flying. Now i'm REALLY ready to launch . . . .

MarkB.
11-13-2018, 06:17 PM
Comrades

Still no flight report but, based largely on gh's assurances that all things Enerjet are good, I decided to build an Enerjet Pterodactyl. I scoured this website and could only find a couple of references and one grainy picture that Jerry Irvine posted from years ago. I found the plan on JimZ. The design was later reduced and sold as Mini-dactyl by Centuri.

This is one big parasite glider. Originally designed to launch on large E and F engined boosters, the surfaces are all 1/8" balsa. I didn't have any thick balsa for the fuselage, so I laminated two 1/8" sides to a center core of 1/32 plywood. The only other change was I added a standoff and dowel to fly off a booster-mounted lug; the plans show a double wire cradle to hold the canard during boost. The dowel gives me options for launch vehicles. Test glides indicate a slight nose-heavy condition. I'm still not exactly sure what I'm going to launch it on, but, I'm looking forward to this one, too.

Shown uncovered, the plans indicate Silkspan for covering, but after a positive experience covering the Vashon X-13, I'm most likely to go with Monokote. Either an all-black Russian Firefox scheme or and all-white XB-70 scheme.

I recommend it as a fun build; we'll see about flying.

Ez2cDave
01-29-2019, 11:55 AM
I decided to build a Vashon X-13 from the plans on JimZ. It is similar but not identical to the Estes Firefly. The X-13 has a longer nose moment and a larger wing (more cord and span). I noticed that the Vashon kit came with some Monokote to cover it. Does anybody have one who could tell me what color Monokote came with it? Or if you remember? I have a fairly large stash of Monokote from my R/C days so I'd love to cover it "authentically".

It glides like a BRICK, when covered with Monokote ( very heavy ).

Dave F.

LeeR
01-29-2019, 06:26 PM
One great boost glider you could clone is the Estes Dragonfly.
Mine always turned in good times.

I’ve also got a Dragonfly. Excellent little glider.

K'Tesh
01-29-2019, 06:34 PM
Doug Holverson (sp?) posted the Swinger's fin templates that you could use to clone the design on TRF or FB. I can't remember which one and I can't access WiFi from this hospital, nor use cell data on my computer.

aeppel_cpm
01-29-2019, 07:14 PM
TRF

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/holverson-designs-laser-cutter-files.150503/

MarkB.
02-19-2019, 10:22 PM
Comrades:

Just to close the loop on this thread, I finally launched all of the stuff I mentioned here except for the parasite glider I designed as it got left at home. (It'll fly next time)

So what were the results?

Well, of the two pod-gliders, the FlyBaby and the Semroc Swift, the FlyBaby flew better, hands down. In fact, the Swift separated from its pod shortly after burn out, which of course, sent the pod tumbling down and the glider didn't fly all that well from there. The FlyBaby needs a little less left trim, but flew well. I have a picture of it flying, below. It made two more 360s from that altitude. I don't know how good 48 seconds on an A8-3 is, but it was cool to watch and I was totally pleased. My launch crew thought it was pretty darn cool.

As to the parasites, perhaps the key was the Glider-Launching-Rocket or GLR. It flew four times, once with no gliders, then twice with the two small gliders and then once with the big Enerjet Pterodactyl. At the end of the day it was missing a glider lug (of three) and the chrome paint was pretty beat-up, but other than that, it was OK. The X-13 and Firefly both flew well but the Firefly landed first both times. Even though the X-13 was Monokote covered, it was lighter than the dope-and-tissue covered Firefly because it needed no nose weight. I think that was reflected in the performance. More tweaking is needed as I think there is more performance in there for both. I think I could get 30 seconds on the X-13 without too much trouble if it were launched alone on the GLR on a B6-2 . The picture is kind of cool in that it shows one of the gliders flying by the parachuting GLR with a few wadding clusters falling higher up.

Which leaves the Pterodactyl. From test-flying in my backyard, I knew it was a little nose heavy but I thought it would glider better from higher up. I was wrong. It came screaming down like the lifting body at the beginning of the Six Million Dollar Man, hit a small rock (in the desert! Go figure) and tumbled over a few times. It now has a dent in the nose which I'm going to try and steam out and then were going to get a much flatter glide in the backyard before we try again.

On the plus side, I'm happy that the smallish GLR can launch the Pterodactyl. The GLR is significantly smaller than the big Enerjet E and F powered monsters the Pterodactyl was designed to piggyback. The downside is I'm tempted to recreate one of those big monster boosters, get an Enerjet hat and scare the children at the next launch.

Chas Russell
02-20-2019, 03:58 PM
Thank you for posting the pictures. Since I designed the Fly Baby for use with B4-2 motors, I would say that 48 seconds on an A8 is great. A little less turn as you noted and you will have to be aware of thermals.

Chas

ghrocketman
02-20-2019, 07:48 PM
You NEED a 29mm powered Enerjet Aerodart to properly launch the Pterodactyl.

MarkB.
03-11-2019, 11:07 PM
Comrades:

I did a little research in the old posts on this site and yes, I ordered the Semroc parts to build an AeroDart (Mk.III). While I was rooting around the eRockets site, I discovered that Randy has laser cut sheets for both the full-size Pterodactyl and the later Mini-Dactyl. They are in the "Fin" section. So if you wanted to try some seriously old-school Enerjet/Centuri canard gliders, well, you're pretty much set.

Joe Wooten
03-12-2019, 09:32 AM
I have several Mini Dactyls. I drew the templates for them from the original kits I built several years ago. When I fly them for the Scouts they are always a crowd pleaser. I get flights of over a minute on a 1/2 A3. I nearly lost one on a thermal launching it on a A3. Thank God for an energetic scout who loved to run after rockets........

Ez2cDave
03-12-2019, 12:01 PM
Comrades:

I did a little research in the old posts on this site and yes, I ordered the Semroc parts to build an AeroDart (Mk.III). While I was rooting around the eRockets site, I discovered that Randy has laser cut sheets for both the full-size Pterodactyl and the later Mini-Dactyl. So if you wanted to try some seriously old-school Enerjet/Centuri canard gliders, well, you're pretty much set.

ENERJET PTERODACTYL . . .

http://www.oldrocketplans.com/enerjet/Enerjet_KE-6_Pterodactyl.zip