I'm curious...

[Druid]

Hey all,

Hope y'all are doing well. I'm curious about something, and I think this is the right area to post it in...

Do you build the vintage kits that you purchase? Or, do you simply collect them and hope they'll be worth more money in the future?

I'm curious, because as I peruse sites like eBay and see how much money some kits go for (like the Saturn and Jupiter kits), I can't imagine someone actually building it!

[chanstevens]

Hey all,

Hope y'all are doing well. I'm curious about something, and I think this is the right area to post it in...

Do you build the vintage kits that you purchase? Or, do you simply collect them and hope they'll be worth more money in the future?

I'm curious, because as I peruse sites like eBay and see how much money some kits go for (like the Saturn and Jupiter kits), I can't imagine someone actually building it!

I might not be best source for responding, as I haven't been around enough to accumulate much vintage, but my general theory would be:

1) If you manage to pick up an "inexpensive" kit, you're better off building it than keeping it for investment purposes. In rare circumstances, you can still buy an "inexpensive" kit worthy of investment, in which case buy two--one to build, one to save. Examples of this might be something like numbered editions (Flis, Semroc, Rocketflite come to mind, or limited editions such as Estes Orbital Transport, Scissor Wing, Quest Nike-Smoke). Remember--the reason the "collectible" kits get so expensive is because everyone built them/no one kept them. Don't expect current Red Max/Interceptor re-issues to be worth anything, as so many people are buying/keeping multiples thinking they'll go up just like the originals did.

2) If you see an expensive collectible kit at a discounted price, buy it and keep it. Example--Original Interceptors go for $100-125, so if you see one for $50, grab it (must be original, not reissue). Find an Estes Saturn V in a local hobby shop for $75? Grab it. When you spend that much on a modroc, though, it's pretty hard to justify building/flying it given the huge variety of interesting and inexpensive models available today.

3) If you see a rare and expensive kit running for normal/expensive/collectible market price, don't even THINK it will be a decent investment. It might fill a warm/fuzzy need or aleve obsessive/compulsive collector disorder by filling a hole on the wall, but if you pay $100 for an Estes Titan III don't expect to be able to resell it for $200 to fund retirement. Don't even expect to be able to resell it for $100.

One other general note--I've built/flown quite a few that, in retrospect, would have been worth keeping instead. My only regret on those is not that I blew a potential investment, but that I built them too soon--before I'd acquired the craftsmanship skills and experience to do them justice. For example, I've got a Titan III that has hot-glued fins and wavy hand-painted detail lines. Compared to what I could do with that kit today, it makes me cringe...

--Chan Stevens

[ghrocketman]

The vintage kits I buy I generally build unless they are really rare.
I have a Vintage K-29 Saturn 1B and a K21 Gemini Titan that I was going to build, but now will not seeing as the S1B is cloned by Semroc and the Gemini by PD Rocketry.
I currently have an opened Enerjet Nike Smoke with "working" smoke that intend to build....that one IS really rare,but has little value as it is opened.

[cas2047]

I agree with Chan. He summed it up very well. My two cents on top of that...


I've purchased a good deal of kits over the last two years, mostly off of eBay, and some of those have been put away as collectibles, others I have built.

When dealing with collectible kits I've got a couple of rules that I follow.

1. I will only buy if the kit can be had for below the going rate. For example if I can grab an Estes Sat V for well below the going rate I will do it. I've only been able to do that one time, and I have been looking for two years now. The kit is a 2001 Estes Sat V that was open and started before I purchased it. I got if for just over 60 and I just finished building it.

2. If I do manage to purchase a classic kit for a good price I won't build it unless I can get a second or unless it has already been opened and started. For example I was able to purchase the old Estes Mercury Redstone a year ago for 50 on eBay. It is unopened and mint in the bag. That kit is in the collectible cabinet. Now just recently I was able to purchase another one on eBay for 45 however the kit is open so I will build it.

3. If I am collecting an older kit it is for one of two reasons only. The first being that I want to build the kit at some future point with my son when he is ready to tackle a classic build. The second being that I expect to give that kit to my son so that he can either build it himself or with his son or daughter someday. I don't collect kits to try and sell them at some future time for a profit.

I applaud all of the true collectors out there because without them I would not have the ability to buy/build any of the classic kits that can still be had today. When I was a kid in the 60's-70's I built anything I could get my hands on so if everyone were like me there would be no old classics available at all.

In the end though (in my humble opinion) rockets are meant to be build and flown. That's why they come with engine mounts. When they should be built and flown, that's a whole different question. ;)

[Initiator001]

In my case, I became a 'collector' when I could buy kits faster than I could build them! :D

I never expected thre to be companies that would produce 'clone' models of these model rockets so I bought many, many Estes and Centuri kits I found in hobby shops during the 1980s. My idea was that I would build them, someday.

Now that companies such as Semroc, BMS, Thrustline and others make excellent reproduction models, there is no need for me to open up the original models.

Even with all the 'clone' kits now available, there are still plenty of models that have not been re-kitted. My having the original kit allows me to take measurements and send the information to BMS and Semroc and get copies made of the original parts. This is how I was able to make my Enerjet Nike Ram and Aero-Dart clones (See attached pictures).

It's not just Estes and Centuri kits. I collect Cox, MPC, MRI, North Coast Rocketry and others. I have a GREAT collection of AeroTech kits and products. I don't know if they will ever be 'collectable'. ;)

Hmm, maybe Scott Branche and I should have a collection 'duel'? :rolleyes:

Bob

[DWolman]

That brings up a good question - how many kits make up a collection?

Bob - how many do you have in your collection? I'm curious to see how it stacks up against Scott's and/or other big collections -

I'm embarrassed to say that I have a collection of unbuilt kits that is well into the hundreds

Thanks

Dan

[snuggles]

Don't be "embarrassed" by the amount of kits that are unbuilt. I have all of mine(over200) in my very own"subterranean hobby shop" ( my basement) .
I do take the time, occasionally, to ooh and aah at what I have amassed over the years.
As one of the TRFers says, " My wife is gonna have a hell of a garage sale if I die"
Mark T

[Eagle3]

In comparison to Scott and Bob I have modest collection. A lot of them will be built... eventually, whether it will be me or my beneficiary remains to be seen. There are around 40 or so that won't be built. I'll clone them first or I have another for building, i.e. Semroc kits with or without production numbers. I have some of my favorites displayed on shelves, but I hope to add a peg board someday for hanging collection kits.

[jbuscaglia]

That brings up a good question - how many kits make up a collection?

Bob - how many do you have in your collection? I'm curious to see how it stacks up against Scott's and/or other big collections -

I'm embarrassed to say that I have a collection of unbuilt kits that is well into the hundreds

Thanks

Dan

Dan,

Admitting that you have a problem is the first step towards recovery.

I had to sell my condo and buy a house because my rocket room was overflowing. (well, that wasn't the ONLY reason.)

"Hi. My name is John and I have a rocketry problem..."

:)

[kurtschachner]

"Hi. My name is John and I have a rocketry problem..."



OK, with due respect to those who developed the 12-step program and absolutely no disrespect to our Higher Power, is my 30-second rewite of the program:

***************

We admitted we were powerless over rocketry--that our collections had become unmanageable.

Came to believe that "just one more kit" could be enough.

Made a decision to store our kits until such time as we would build them.

Made a searching of hobby shops wherever our travels took us.

Admitted to no one the exact number of our stored kits.

Were never ready to have anyone remove any of the kits from our posession.

Humbly asked Carl to clone our favorite kit.

Vaguely had an idea of all the kits in our posession.

Made direct PayPal payments to such people wherever possible.

Continued to take a rocketry inventory and when we miscounted, corrected it.

Sought through Ye Olde Rocket Forum to improve our conscious contact with others, as we understood them, logging on only for knowledge of some forgotten kit.

Having had an awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to others, and to convince our family that medication was not necessary.

[cas2047]

OK, with due respect to those who developed the 12-step program and absolutely no disrespect to our Higher Power, is my 30-second rewite of the program:

***************

We admitted we were powerless over rocketry--that our collections had become unmanageable.

Came to believe that "just one more kit" could be enough.

Made a decision to store our kits until such time as we would build them.

Made a searching of hobby shops wherever our travels took us.

Admitted to no one the exact number of our stored kits.

Were never ready to have anyone remove any of the kits from our posession.

Humbly asked Carl to clone our favorite kit.

Vaguely had an idea of all the kits in our posession.

Made direct PayPal payments to such people wherever possible.

Continued to take a rocketry inventory and when we miscounted, corrected it.

Sought through Ye Olde Rocket Forum to improve our conscious contact with others, as we understood them, logging on only for knowledge of some forgotten kit.

Having had an awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to others, and to convince our family that medication was not necessary.

OK now I'm concerned. All of the above points relate directly to my involvement with Rocketry. I mean I asked Carl to clone the Sat V in another thread just today. Of course he didn't answer me but I asked... :rolleyes:

[Gus]

In comparison to Scott and Bob I have modest collection. A lot of them will be built... eventually...
Whenever we discuss collections it is usually about bagged kits. But I happen to know Buzz has a hugely impressive collection of built kits. Check out his photos at:
http://www.cv41.org/personal/gallery/collection

(With enough money) anybody can amass a big collection of unopened kits, and I'm as guilty as anybody. But what I find much more impressive are those who have built and continue to fly so many classic models.

My friend Sandman is another with an incredible collection of built classics.

In our NAR group, member Shawn always shows up with some incredible blasts from the past that he loads up an flies like they were no more valuable than a WalMart Launchable. It's always huge fun to see these beauties fly.

[Skippy]

[snip]
I currently have an opened Enerjet Nike Smoke with "working" smoke that intend to build....that one IS really rare,but has little value as it is opened.

Post pics! :) Post pics! :) Post pics! ;) Post pics! :D Post pics! :) Post pics! :D Post pics! ;) Post pics! :eek:

[Ltvscout]

OK, with due respect to those who developed the 12-step program and absolutely no disrespect to our Higher Power, is my 30-second rewite of the program:

Hehe. Good one!

[Skippy]

I'm looking at Buzz' collection of built kits (thanks for the link Gus,) and I come across this Estes rocket. I know I've seen it before, but what is it? Searching Estes + OTL doesn't find me anything like this kit.

[edit]

OK, more looking is good :p
The Orbital Transport Laboratory OTL-7A was a MRN design of the month. Plans are here:

http://www.dars.org/jimz/eirp_73.htm

Great, another plan in the build queue :rolleyes:

[sandman]

I'm looking at Buzz' collection of built kits (thanks for the link Gus,) and I come across this Estes rocket. I know I've seen it before, but what is it? Searching Estes + OTL doesn't find me anything like this kit.

[edit]

OK, more looking is good :p
The Orbital Transport Laboratory OTL-7A was a MRN design of the month. Plans are here:

http://www.dars.org/jimz/eirp_73.htm

Great, another plan in the build queue :rolleyes:

You will have to first stop at SEMROC and get yourself one of the new Mercury Capsules.

http://www.semroc.com/Store/scripts/prodList.asp

[jbuscaglia]

You will have to first stop at SEMROC and get yourself one of the new Mercury Capsules.

http://www.semroc.com/Store/scripts/prodList.asp


I'm pretty sure it uses the Gemini capsule. SEMROC probably sells that one, too. If not, BMS does.

[ghrocketman]

Semroc does in fact sell the BNC-60AB Gemini capsule.
BMS supplies this one as well.
As an interesting side note, I have one of each and I have found the as delivered finish/sanding on virtually all Semroc cones is much nicer than the BMS produced cones.
I replaced the Gemini capsule in my PDR K-21 Gemini Titan that was by BMS with a Semroc one to save LOTS of sanding/extra coats of Balsa Fillercoat & sanding Sealer.

[sandman]

I'm pretty sure it uses the Gemini capsule. SEMROC probably sells that one, too. If not, BMS does.

Yes it is the Gemini capsule (I hadn't checked the plans when I first posted) and yes, SEMROC does carry that as the BNC-60AB just scroll down the page a little bit.

It's $4.30.

[Royatl]

Semroc does in fact sell the BNC-60AB Gemini capsule.
BMS supplies this one as well.
As an interesting side note, I have one of each and I have found the as delivered finish/sanding on virtually all Semroc cones is much nicer than the BMS produced cones.
I replaced the Gemini capsule in my PDR K-21 Gemini Titan that was by BMS with a Semroc one to save LOTS of sanding/extra coats of Balsa Fillercoat & sanding Sealer.

I also noted the better fit and finish, and I did exactly the same, also because the BMS cone is about 1/8" - 3/16" shorter than it should've been.

[Skippy]

I have a Semroc Mercury capsule en route (via Uncle Mike) and was looking for a project for it. I know the Orbital Transport Laboratory uses the Gemini capsule, but I might build it with the Mercury and a transition just to be contrary. ;)

Anyone who says they have run out of projects really isn't looking!

[Green Dragon]

Whenever we discuss collections it is usually about bagged kits. But I happen to know Buzz has a hugely impressive collection of built kits. Check out his photos at:
http://www.cv41.org/personal/gallery/collection
.

Very cool :-)

personally, that'd be me as well, last count I had 227 or 228 built kits ( not allpainted / flyable, but not counting 'unbuilt' ) .
I had a huge unbuilt kit collection, but sold in the mid 90's, wish I had em now ( or the $$ they'd bring, lol - although many went to Danny Sagester ( ?sp) , so might be in some of your collections, since he;s been selling many lately.

BUZZ - love the site and the birds, got a couple questions, if I may :)

1- the site is great, is there some form of template for that, or ?, would be neat to post my own fleet somehow, and my wife was the computer science guru, so now I have no helper :(

2 - have not had a chance to puruse the whole fleet yet, but was looking at the LOC kits ( can we say 'vintage HPR' . niec late 80's stuff, if I;m not mistaken - the ultimate is an old rub with long ( ? ACE ) cone ? ( I had owned the original LOC catalog model Ultimate, white one, and also had a Loc cone version later on, need to build a new one ) .
also, the Mini Mag - is that a foam cone ? * VERY VERY * rare, I have one on my Esoteric, should pull a mold and try to make some ... real nice looks with that cone.
just curious, as an early HPR guy I like seeing what I 'grew up on ' :-)

~ AL

[Initiator001]

That brings up a good question - how many kits make up a collection?

Bob - how many do you have in your collection? I'm curious to see how it stacks up against Scott's and/or other big collections -

I'm embarrassed to say that I have a collection of unbuilt kits that is well into the hundreds

Thanks

Dan

Dan,

I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 800-900 unbuilt kits (I didn't realize I had THAT many until I went to answer your question).

I would say that Scott Branche's collection beats me in terms of sheer numbers/quantity while I have a much wider variety of manufacturers in my collection. :rolleyes:

Bob

[Solomoriah]

I have a Semroc Mercury capsule en route (via Uncle Mike) and was looking for a project for it. I know the Orbital Transport Laboratory uses the Gemini capsule, but I might build it with the Mercury and a transition just to be contrary. ;)

Anyone who says they have run out of projects really isn't looking!
Uncle Mike has the Mercury capsule? Where? I was looking for it...

[Skippy]

Mike usually has all the Semroc kits available. It isn't listed on the UMRS website yet, but I just asked if he had it and he said yes.

I might add that Mike does a lot for us guys down here in Oz, that's why I will buy Semroc and Fliskits from him and let him make a few dollars from the sale.

Uncle Mike rules!

[scigs30]

I like to buy old vintage kits and build them. I currently have over 200 Estes kits that I have bought over the last year alone. I have 74 rocket from the 1979 catalog. As of right now I have not nor do I have plans to collect rockets such as the Saturn V or LTV Scout.....For some reason no desire to build them...This could change I will have to wait and see. This is how I go about with my collection: I buy the kit and build it with everything that is in the kit. I do replace the rubber shock cord with new shock cord. If the bt is damaged I replace it with an Estes tube. If the decals are real yellow, I scan them and print them out on my Alps printer. This way I can make sure they are close to the orig decals. I am able to match the decal colors this way. If it is a kit that I will not be able to clone in the future. I try to buy 2. Examples would be the Star Wars kits, Balsa nose cone kits, and kits that use a lot of plastic. I have never been a collector of anything, I will only live once and want to enjoy it. There is no better joy than opening up an orig. Estes rocket and building it.

[Ltvscout]

As of right now I have not nor do I have plans to collect rockets such as the Saturn V or LTV Scout.....For some reason no desire to build them...
What?!? Sacrilege!

:D

[scigs30]

I think I am burnt out of building scale models.....I also think that I am going back to when I was younger and the rockets I was exposed to in the late 70's early 80's......The good thing is you don't have to worry about me buying them on ebay. :)

[Ltvscout]

The good thing is you don't have to worry about me buying them on ebay. :)
Heh, I have enough LTV Scouts in my basement that I could open an LTV Scout only store. :eek: :D

[Bruce Temple]

Houston.......we have a collection problem. Hi my names Bruce, and I'm a addict........

[snuggles]

All together everyone.........Hi Bruce!!!!!!

[Skippy]

Houston.......we have a collection problem. Hi my names Bruce, and I'm a addict........Bruce, you are just like the rest of us. Your only problem is a storage problem! Get those kits off the floor...

[Ltvscout]

Houston.......we have a collection problem. Hi my names Bruce, and I'm a addict........
Are you just selling of "extras" on eBay? I noticed you have some items up there for sale.

[Bruce Temple]

Yep, dups & rocketry things I don't collect too. Got some real nice pre damon kits to come.
It's been a good year for picking up some rocketry lots for me, but thats with a major effort. It's getting more and more unusual to find cheap lots, as It's drying up out there, as for old sealed kits. I've noticed prices are rising on single skill level kits & built ups quite a bit.

Been collecting Estes & Centuri since 03. Last kit inventory was 05, so it's time. Estes next. I'm dreading the tabulating, but it's nice to fondle the old kits........ahhhhhhhh. :D

[CraigF]

I was just going through my "stock". Haven't looked at it for a while. I'm not really a collector as such, I only buy things I would like to build, which is mostly "scale" Estes kits, or their bigger suff. I tried to clean up in 2003, and naturally the big bites were on some of my favorites which I have regretted selling (strangely, the guy I sold them to died a week after I mailed them, he never even saw them AFAIK, so take a lesson if you ever see me try to sell anything again...).

I guess my question is: do people still want the old versions of Estes kits that have been reissued? I can see it for classics, but how about things like V2, DR Tomahawk, Mercury Redstone etc.? Like, I have 3 versions of the V2 that are really pretty much the same but have different numbers. Unfortunately I suppose, I have spare copies of the oldest versions of most kits, so those would be the ones I'd most likely build, though it might make sense to build the newer versions if people still wanted the older ones. Now that I know about this forum, it would make sense to ask here before I open/build anything JIC some collector wants the old version; for building it doesn't matter.

[mrhemi1971]

Me personally, I'm a builder, if I get something, it doesnt sit in a box hoping to make some sort of financial gain, I get it and BUILD IT!! I dont care how rare or desirable a perfectly sealed never creased hang tag kit is getting on E-Blah. Kits are meant to be built! if its old, I do my best to make sure it's built original, but I hate to see collectors hoard up old kits trying to make a buck. Otherwise this hobby is going to wind up being a rich mans game, and working class people wont be able to get thier favorite old kits. It really sucks to see what god awful prices people are gouging at on E-Blah. I miss the good old days of kit trading with your buddies to get the one you want. Call me crazy, but just remember folks,THEY ARE NOT DIAMONDS, ITS CARDBOARD TUBES, PLASTIC AND BALSA! Just my 2 cent rant.........

[CraigF]

I don't think most people are necessarily aiming for financial gain. In my case I got my kits before Estes started doing so many reissues. I fully intended to build them, but work/etc. intervened, just didn't have the time to do these generally expensive kits justice. Estes was mostly releasing crap in those days (90s), nothing with any challenge or of much interest. Not many clones yet. So people were trying to snap up the good stuff because it didn't look good for the future. When Estes started re-releasing some old favorites, they were often VERY hard to get, people who could were snapping up multiple copies. Many never even made it to Canada (where I am). What I'm saying here is, some people may have accumulated a fair stock "by accident", a case of getting what you want when you can, not with any other intent.

If you're not a collector, then belittling people who are seems like a threadcrap. I'm not a collector, but do appreciate that some people get joy out of it. And I don't want to purposely destroy what may have some value to others. I hardly think most people here would have their lives changed by getting an extra $10k (say) from liquidating a collection, and that would be a pretty large collection, so we have to put things into perspective. That would likely be the depreciation on an average new car in just a few years or less.

[mrhemi1971]

I'm not against collecting things, by any means, I am a collector too, but the things I collect dont sit in a bag never to be assembled. My point was that if you collect rockets, at least BUILD THEM!! I just have a bad feeling for the people who are greedy with what they have, take for instance the thread speaking about the person trying to sell the shuttle kit for over $200. That person is OBVIOUSLY trying to just make a buck.

[CraigF]

Ah OK, got it. I know just what you mean about greedy people. It annoys lots of people, especially when greedy (or ignorant or misinformed??) sellers keep relisting and relisting (at no extra charge) the same thing, eventually hoping to catch a sucker. OTOH, there are a LOT of people with more money than time who will pay a high price just so they can "move on"... And some people actually fall for the eBay selling strategy of over-pricing something that isn't dirt-common to make it seem more desirable.

As mentioned, I only buy stuff I would like to build. Building is the intention, but you know what they say about intentions. There was a time when the model rocket industry seemed so moribund that many thought Estes etc. may not even survive. Luckily things have changed drastically since then in many ways, but I really did believe, at one time, that there may not be many of the type of kits I like around much longer. The forum header is missing some of my favorite brands but is still evidence of some of those no longer around. Anyway, that's my excuse...

[scigs30]

Collect? What would I do with 200 Estes kits sitting around? If I wanted to collect items that would be worth money someday, it sure as heck wouldn't be a model rocket. I just bought a Delux Der Red Max, and I intend on building it as soon as I get done with my Sandpiper. My dad collects old Comics and to this day I wonder what he is going to do with them.

[mrhemi1971]

Ah OK, got it. I know just what you mean about greedy people. It annoys lots of people, especially when greedy (or ignorant or misinformed??) sellers keep relisting and relisting (at no extra charge) the same thing, eventually hoping to catch a sucker. OTOH, there are a LOT of people with more money than time who will pay a high price just so they can "move on"... And some people actually fall for the eBay selling strategy of over-pricing something that isn't dirt-common to make it seem more desirable.

As mentioned, I only buy stuff I would like to build. Building is the intention, but you know what they say about intentions. There was a time when the model rocket industry seemed so moribund that many thought Estes etc. may not even survive. Luckily things have changed drastically since then in many ways, but I really did believe, at one time, that there may not be many of the type of kits I like around much longer. The forum header is missing some of my favorite brands but is still evidence of some of those no longer around. Anyway, that's my excuse...

Other kit makers? I'm intrigued....You're from up north eh? Shed some light on the other brands...

[CraigF]

Nothing unusual, just MRC and NCR. MRC made the most advanced featured small model rockets IMO, and NCR made cool large ones. Everything in their product lines is/was of interest to me. Can't say the same about any other brands...

I do not own a single thing from Canaroc BTW. I had never even heard of them until it was too late. However, I *do* know a place that has some of their stuff still, parts mostly, filthy with dust. I picked up several long OOP kits there as nobody goes there for rockets (for example Estes Saturn 1B for $13, Mars Snooper for $20...probably the original Canadian prices, the store owner must be in his eighties).

[Ltvscout]

The forum header is missing some of my favorite brands but is still evidence of some of those no longer around. Anyway, that's my excuse...
What other brands would you like to see in there, Craig?

[CraigF]

LOL, that's it! I just noticed their absence because they happened to be favorites...I'm sure I'll survive it, plus I forgive you!

Edit: Oops, I just noticed you're Scott Hansen. So there IS some connection to the old YORS site?? That's where I used to get most of my "vintage" stuff, from the auctions. I sure would like an LTV Scout, it is probably my favorite Estes kit that used to exist (hint hint). :D

[barone]

:rolleyes: Nothing unusual, just MRC and NCR. MRC made the most advanced featured small model rockets IMO, and NCR made cool large ones. Everything in their product lines is/was of interest to me. Can't say the same about any other brands...

I do not own a single thing from Canaroc BTW. I had never even heard of them until it was too late. However, I *do* know a place that has some of their stuff still, parts mostly, filthy with dust. I picked up several long OOP kits there as nobody goes there for rockets (for example Estes Saturn 1B for $13, Mars Snooper for $20...probably the original Canadian prices, the store owner must be in his eighties).
Must be nice......I've got friends and relatives in Canada that I've put on the watch for Canaroc kits.....so neat :D Guess I should have them looking for any rocket kits.....

[CraigF]

I'll have a look too. Canaroc has zero profile with me, I wouldn't really know what their kits look like. First time I had ever heard of Canaroc was when I saw it in that store, second time was when I joined this forum and saw it in the header...Canaroc didn't exist when I was a kid and was gone when I was a BAR (I guess I'm a re-BAR now). I'll let you know if I find anything "good" as it would have no meaning for me.

Oddly enough I have found the best older rocket kits in stores that specialise in trains. Which possibly makes sense in that if they had a few rockets they wouldn't move out too fast. Even in general hobby stores around here, the smaller ones often have Estes kits 5+ years old. I have got the impression it's mainly the starter sets that sell. I picked up a Shadow, Broadsword, and Trident at a large Toronto train store, I think they're all over 10 years old. Those are the only ones I'd build (have built them before), there were others not to my taste.

[barone]

Take a look here at some of the plans that are posted.

http://www.oldrocketplans.com/canaroc.htm

[CraigF]

Thanks for the link, I see there are lots of resources here I'll have to familiarise myself with. Contrary to what I said, I *have* actually seen the Canaroc Black Brants (forget which one/s) and the Eager Beaver before, the link reminded me.

[Ltvscout]

I picked up a Shadow, Broadsword, and Trident at a large Toronto train store, I think they're all over 10 years old. Those are the only ones I'd build (have built them before), there were others not to my taste.
Craig,

Was it the original Trident you got or the newer Trident II that was actually a Bident?

[CraigF]

Sorry, yes, it is a Trident II. I don't know what a real/original Trident looks like. This one has 3 "pods", so that's how I figured it got its name. Lots of balsa cones, that's why I figured it must be 10 years old, but I don't know... It wasn't dirt cheap either ($20), but I like the look of it. :) Doesn't have those IMO awful blue cardboard uncoated BTs Estes used for a while. A braver person would cluster it...

[Royatl]

Sorry, yes, it is a Trident II. I don't know what a real/original Trident looks like. This one has 3 "pods", so that's how I figured it got its name. Lots of balsa cones, that's why I figured it must be 10 years old, but I don't know... It wasn't dirt cheap either ($20), but I like the look of it. :) Doesn't have those IMO awful blue cardboard uncoated BTs Estes used for a while. A braver person would cluster it...

If it has three 1/2" outboard tubes (i assume what you called "pods"), vs two 3/4" outboard tubes, then it IS a Trident! (or at least a clone! I have some friends who were distributing a clone Trident a few years ago, even going so far as to use recycled Estes bags!)

The Bident is not a bad design, mind you. We just felt cheated a little back in 1990 when Mary Roberts told us it was coming and we were expecting the old Trident.

[CraigF]

Nah, just the two outboard pods, I was counting the central section as one. :( I'm looking for a Trident pic to see what I'm missing...

[CPMcGraw]

Nah, just the two outboard pods, I was counting the central section as one. :( I'm looking for a Trident pic to see what I'm missing...

From one Craig to another...

Take a look at this image, tiny as it is... :o

Ahem...

Scott, can you do something about the size limit for GIFs? The vBulletin software won't allow anything over 19 KB, and the Trident image I have is 20.3. It kicks back that it can't allow it.

I reduced it slightly, but I think it's otherwise recognizable...

[Royatl]

Nah, just the two outboard pods, I was counting the central section as one. :( I'm looking for a Trident pic to see what I'm missing...

go to the canonical site: www.ninfinger.org.

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/nostalgia/68estp20.html

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/estes711/711est48.html

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/nostalgia/72est024.html

[pantherjon]

That was one of the half-finished kits that was in one of the two boxes of my old childhood rockets my parents shipped back to me! :) Maybe this picture will show it a little better- doesn't have the decals(have to order a set from Tango Papa one of these days..lol) I finished it a couple months ago, did a 'rebuild' thread on it over at TRF..

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t21/Pantherjon/AstronTrident021sm.jpg

[CraigF]

Thanks! Hmm, lots of NCs on that one, and looks like a fair little job to build. Now that I see it I do remember it.

[pantherjon]

Yeah it is quite a challenging build..Was way over my head when I first tried to build it at age 12...lol..It uses ported exhaust for the ejection-that's the tricky part, getting the ports lined up properly..Nice thing with it- no wadding needed! :)

[CraigF]

I was just thinking, after looking at the old cats, that we got screwed on the Outlander (vs the Mars Lander) in sort of the same way we did with the Trident II (vs Trident)...cost-cutting, one less appendage. Interesting that the Trident actually slightly decreased in price betwee 68 and 72, those were the days...(i.e. when the parents paid for everything :) )

[Ltvscout]

Scott, can you do something about the size limit for GIFs? The vBulletin software won't allow anything over 19 KB, and the Trident image I have is 20.3. It kicks back that it can't allow it.
Fixed.