Czech ASTRA

[Phred]

I picked up a vintage Czech kit at the Cannon auction at NARAM 50. The kit was made by IGRA in the mid 1960's and came with 6 ADAST motors. I am scanning everything for Scott... but here are a few pics to whet your appetities. The model looks like a ASTRON Mark, and has a 24mm OD body tube, a soft plastic or resin nosecone, a printed fin set, two sets of decals, a dried up tube of IGRA glue, and a cloth parachute!!

Phred

[stefanj]

Looks like a very nice, simple kit.

[shockwaveriderz]

thanks Phred! Roy, is this your Czech ASTRA? It was designed and sold by Otakar Saffek, "the G. Harry Stine" of the old Czechoslovakia back circa 1965. I have some more information about this that I will scan for Scott and post some of it here later.

Phred, wheres the fron/side top views of those ADAST's/ I'd be very careful with those if I was you. I think they may have some picric acid in them.

terry dean

[Royatl]

thanks Phred! Roy, is this your Czech ASTRA? It was designed and sold by Otakar Saffek, "the G. Harry Stine" of the old Czechoslovakia back circa 1965. I have some more information about this that I will scan for Scott and post some of it here later.

Phred, wheres the fron/side top views of those ADAST's/ I'd be very careful with those if I was you. I think they may have some picric acid in them.

terry dean

No, this is another kit. Carl has my kit, as I gave it to him at the Vendors forum. Three years ago I promised to scan everything for him, and I had so much trouble getting everything to work and then things came up and I'd forget about it for awhile, etc, and so on, so that this time just before I left, I decided to take the kit with me and hand it to him.

I took the motors out though, so he wouldn't have a problem shipping it back to me.

The motors in my kit are definitely black powder motors. 2.5ns. The WidowMaker motors I believe started at 10ns and were from three or four years later. Stuart Lodge has a description of them in one of his books.

[JRThro]

thanks Phred! Roy, is this your Czech ASTRA? It was designed and sold by Otakar Saffek, "the G. Harry Stine" of the old Czechoslovakia back circa 1965. I have some more information about this that I will scan for Scott and post some of it here later.

Phred, wheres the fron/side top views of those ADAST's/ I'd be very careful with those if I was you. I think they may have some picric acid in them.

terry dean
"picnic acid"?

[Doug Sams]

No...Carl has my kit...
Looks like Carl had your kit :D

Doug

.

[Doug Sams]

"picnic acid"?Not picNic, picRic.

But, other than seeing it was an "r" and not an "n", I'm chemically ignorant :)

However, google makes me smart:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picric_acid

Doug

.

[shockwaveriderz]

"picnic acid"?

close: PICRIC acid an explosive :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picric_acid

terry dean

[Royatl]

"picnic acid"?

p i c r i c acid --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picric_acid

[JRThro]

Anyone else want to post that link again?
:D :rolleyes:

[barone]

I was going to but I can't find it..... :D

[Phred]

OK, So I have this pile of vintage european motors: Czech, Polish, Russian, German Yugoslav, and Hungarian. How know I know what motors contain picric acid?

EVERY time I mention foreign motors, someone calls them widowmakers. I have been advised that the true widowmakers are the semi transluscent, fiberglass cased, green-ish clay nozzled motor that I have. :eek:

This is of course, not to say that other motors may be unstable, but that these are the 'true' Widowmakers, for whatever that is worth...

see the pic....

Phred

[JRThro]

OK, So I have this pile of vintage european motors: Czech, Polish, Russian, German Yugoslav, and Hungarian. How know I know what motors contain picric acid?

EVERY time I mention foreign motors, someone calls them widowmakers. I have been advised that the true widowmakers are the semi transluscent, fiberglass cased, green-ish clay nozzled motor that I have. :eek:

This is of course, not to say that other motors may be unstable, but that these are the 'true' Widowmakers, for whatever that is worth...

see the pic....

Phred
So you have an actual, real, authentic, *vintage* widowmaker, huh? That ought to be worth something to someone.

[shockwaveriderz]

As far as I am aware only the mid to late 60's(maybe early 70's) Czech ADAST motors were called "widowmakers" due to their propensity to blow up.

Attached is a couple pages from the MIT Journal from 1972 with some additional info.

Talk about a "cocktail" of propellant ingredients! : potassium picrate, AP and Nitrocellulose!

I think thats why theu were called "widowmakers"

By the early to mid 70's the ADAST motors were history and were replaced by motors made by ZVS Dubnica, which were either BP or composite, says Trip Barber in a 1978 article on Foreign model rocket motors.

The czech ADASt image is from the 65 HMR A G. Harry Stine photo.. These were the older ADAST from the early-mid 1960's.

The actual person behind both the ADAST and ZVS Dubnica was Milan Jelinek who later made the Slovak VYMOPO FAI motors. "VYMOPO" means "Modeller Devices ProductionI emailed Milan several times to talk to hom. His wife would translate my english to russian as he could read russian. I started translating my english direct into russian later. He's in his mid 70's now and just retired from FAI stuff I think.

terry dean

[Royatl]

OK, So I have this pile of vintage european motors: Czech, Polish, Russian, German Yugoslav, and Hungarian. How know I know what motors contain picric acid?

EVERY time I mention foreign motors, someone calls them widowmakers. I have been advised that the true widowmakers are the semi transluscent, fiberglass cased, green-ish clay nozzled motor that I have. :eek:

This is of course, not to say that other motors may be unstable, but that these are the 'true' Widowmakers, for whatever that is worth...

see the pic....

Phred

That does sorta fit the descriptions I've been given over the years. Of the people that check (Czech?) things out here, Matt Steele may be the one who can identify it with the most certainty (and he can probably tell you the best way to treat them!). Or those with more early Internats experience? Bob Kaplow may also have one in his collection; you'll have to post something over on OldRockets, as he doesn't set foot in web-based fora.

[Phred]

Thanks so much for all of the info !!

The ADAST motors I received with the ASTRA match the above photos (see mine below).

Funny thing.... The fibeglass cased motors I pictured above have a very blurry stamping, but I can make out the following:

2 okt. 1972

10-2.1-0

RMK N Dubnica

Phred

[shockwaveriderz]

looks like a 10-2.1-6 to me?

10 is the total impulse

6 is theh delay time in sec

not sure how the 2.1 is interpreted? average thrust?

terry dean

[Phred]

yep, This info matches your pdf above. Thanks again!!

Phred

[billspad]

looks like a 10-2.1-6 to me?

10 is the total impulse

6 is theh delay time in sec

not sure how the 2.1 is interpreted? average thrust?

terry dean

I have a package similar to the one in the right picture. I can't read Czech but the Google translator tried. The words above 2.1 translated to "max move" which I'm guessing is peak thrust. I'll find out in a couple of weeks when I should have some time to put one on a test stand.

[Phred]

I had a few minutes this afternoon, so I banged out this graphic from a scan of the ASTRA kit box-top. Just save it to your computer, then go to cafepress.com and make your own ADAST T-shirt!!

If you need a more detailed scan, please let me know.

Scott... feel free to use this if you wish!

Ph

[Royatl]

I had a few minutes this afternoon, so I banged out this graphic from a scan of the ASTRA kit box-top. Just save it to your computer, then go to cafepress.com and make your own ADAST T-shirt!!

If you need a more detailed scan, please let me know.

Scott... feel free to use this if you wish!

Ph

Ah, so that's where you got your Model Missiles T-shirt.

[Phred]

I didn't think anyone noticed....

Cafe press is my friend :)

Ph

[Bob Kaplow]

The Picric Acid "Widowmakers" have a greenish colored propellant when you look inside the nozzle. The ones I have also have the translucent wound fiberglass casings.

[Phred]

Yep, the fiberglassed motors I have are the iwdowmakers. I thought it was you who had pointed them out to me Bob. You cannot see the green propellant in the below photo, But I sure can!! Any special way they should be stored?

Phred

[Bob Kaplow]

The only known safe way to store these motors is in my basement!