Estes 2157 Saturn V E Engine question

[Kidagain]

I recently laid my hands on a Saturn V 30th year #2157 kit. I was thinking of using an E engine instead of the recommended D12-3. I realize I would need to install an E engine hook and may need to adjust the mount point in the engine tube. What if anything would I need to do in reference to the CG? Is the E Engine close enough in weight not to concern myself with the CG or would I benefit by moving the engine mount point forward slightly to offset the added .25” in length with the E Engine? Would I need to add weight up front?


Thank You,

Frederick Cobb
Denver, CO.

[dwmzmm]

Which E engine? Estes E9 or the AT E30 (or others)?

[Chas Russell]

The Aerotech E15-4 and E30-4 are the same size as the Estes D12. I would not recommend the Estes E9 as it has a lower thrust and lower impulse than the two Aerotech motors.
Additionally, the E15 and E30 motors can be purchased in three packs a for $19 from www.valuerockets.com

I like the E15 myself.

Chas

[sandman]

The Aerotech E15-4 and E30-4 are the same size as the Estes D12. I would not recommend the Estes E9 as it has a lower thrust and lower impulse than the two Aerotech motors.
Additionally, the E15 and E30 motors can be purchased in three packs a for $19 from www.valuerockets.com

I like the E15 myself.

Chas

NOBODY will suggest you use the Estes E9 motor in the Saturn V. It just won't work! ;)

The Aerotec motors work great!

[ghrocketman]

The weak Estes E9 WILL at best result in an unstable or cruise-missile like horizontal flight of a Saturn V as soon as it clears ANY launch rod. It simply does not have even CLOSE to enough thrust for that model. Any of the Aerotech White Lightning or Blue Thunder RMS24mm E or F reload engines will work, as will the Single-Use E15 and E30 that are Estes D12 length, as well as the new 24mm F32, which is the length of the Estes E9.

DO NOT FLY IT ON AN E9 !!!!!!!!

[Ltvscout]

NOBODY will suggest you use the Estes E9 motor in the Saturn V. It just won't work! ;)
You might get it to hover a bit a few feet off the rod. :D

[ghrocketman]

The original K-36 Saturn V cluster of 3xC6-3 or C5-3 18mm engines has MUCH more lifting power than the E9 or D12 and actually results in better flights than any Estes 24mm Engine other than a Saturn modified for a 3 engine cluster of D12's or E9's.

If you clustered 3 E9 engines, that would be a really nice "barely a G" G27 84 n-sec flight

[Kidagain]

Wow,

Thanks for the heads up all. I defiantly am not be looking at the E9 engines. I wanted a higher N sec. thrust over D-engines to get more altitude at the very least. I was hoping to avoid clustering at this juncture as well. No need to complicate the design . KISS theory works for me here. I will look at the E15 and E30's. If they are the same size in diameter then I see no issue here. Anymore info in this issue is welcome.

Another question came to mind, I have the citation series launch system circa laste 70’s that connected to a car battery back in the day completely restored and ready to use once again. Is this sufficient for E-engine ignitions or do I have to break down and purchase another launch controller?


Thank You,

Frederick Cobb
Denver, CO.

[SEL]

You might get it to hover a bit a few feet off the rod. :D

This is a slight hijacking of the thread, but:

Must have been the summer of '68 when my brother bought a Mars Snooper, probably the most advanced kit either of us had ever attempted. He spent at least a week building it, and did really nice job on it. I think I mentioned in another post, we rarely painted rockets back then simply because we couldn't afford the paint, but he was determined not to fly it until he could scrape up the cash. Well, our determination to see it fly won out, and we convinced him he had to fly it. So, he brought it out, put it on the pad, gave the countdown, pushed the button and we watched it painfully crawl up the launch rod, barely clearing the top before it fell over, broke a fin and popped the chute. Needless to to say we were all just rolling on the ground laughing while he was just about crying over his prize rocket. Turns out he was so afraid of loosing it, he used a 1/4A and didn't tell us. I still call him every now and then on that one.

S.

[Chas Russell]

Frederick,

The NAR Safety Code requires that everyone present be at least 30 feet away from a launch of any motor or cluster that is over a D impulse (20 nt.sec). You could always make an extension to your leads that have microclips at one end. Also, launching the Saturn off of a standard pad is not recommended. Make sure you use a 3/16" rod that is four feet long and anchored in a stable base.

You will find the folks here are full of all kinds of advice, ideas, and experience - some of the latter came with scars.

Chas

[Kidagain]

Thanks, I am aware of the requirements for the more ridged and rugged pad type for heavier rockets and I have the proper rods needed for the heavier rockets. Incidentally the 30th anniversary #2157 Saturn V uses the 1/4” threaded coupler rod and not the ole Maxi 3/16” rod if you were not aware. My question had to do with voltage (12V), current requirements for E-15 and E30 engines. I see many systems are now using much smaller voltage and current needs. That is where my questions lie.


Frederick Cobb
Denver, CO.

[marslndr]

I know you said you did not want to cluster, but you might consider this. FlisKits sells a very nice motor mount kit, the EMK5-124-413-70. It can be found here:

http://fliskits.com/products/01prod_fs.htm

7 bucks and it fits with almost no modification. You can plug the 13mm, thats what I did with mine. All you need to do is cut a small amount off the center 24mm motor tube off, add a coupler, and glue it into the existing BT-50 motor tube. You will have to add some nose weight to move the C/G forward.

I did add 4 balsa buttresses to mine for added strength, but I don't think it is needed.

Here is what it looks like.

[Kidagain]

OK OK..

I purchased the Sunward 29mm motor mount kit ( Item #05 131 ) for my Saturn V. I plan to use numerous single engine choices. Aerotech reloads (29/60) casing down to 24mm motors with a LOC /Precision MMA1 adapter. I will use F39-T down to E15-T's. I got the fact Estes E9's are not the answer. Thanks for the opinons fellas!!

[ghrocketman]

I find my saturn flies the best on the RMS24 F24-4W reload.
Not too fast like the F39T.

[Kidagain]

What about weather cocking and that I am using basswood centering rings? That will make it aft heavy and I will have to rebalance the CG adding weight in the nose. It will then be heavier over all offsetting the lifting capabilites of the F24-4W. That is why I picked the F-39's. Please let me know if I am overthinking this one. ;)