D10-4w vs D12-3

[metlfreak]

Aerotech vs estes D. Which one is stronger? Im confussed. Or are the about the same?

[billspad]

Aerotech vs estes D. Which one is stronger? Im confussed. Or are the about the same?

It's not quite that simple. Take a look at the numbers and thrust time curves on these pages.

data for D10 (http://www.nar.org/SandT/pdf/Aerotech/D10.pdf)


data for D12 (http://www.nar.org/SandT/pdf/Estes/D12.pdf)

[AFlyingMonkey]

If you look at the overall newton seconds, (the definition of power here) the Estes model has only 17N/S, while the Aerotech has 20N/S. Also with taking in the weight differences and size differences, it looks like the Aerotech would have the advantage over the Estes engine IMO. :cool:

[foose4string]

The Aerotech D15 is a better comparison.

Aerotech D15 Data (http://nar.org/SandT/pdf/Aerotech/D15.pdf)

Pound for pound I like the D12 over anything else in the D range. It's just a great motor.

[AFlyingMonkey]

bu it could be possible that the smaller mass of the d-10 and the fact it is also an 18mm engine could be an advantage for competitive uses. but then if the rocket can stand the thrust curve of the D21-4 (http://www.nar.org/SandT/pdf/Aerotech/D21.pdf), it could prove to be the best of them all. but its all JIMO

[luke strawwalker]

Depends on the weight and how fast she needs to get moving too... lighter rocket, go for the longer duration burn for higher performance-- heavier rocket, go for the higher peak thrust motor to get it up to speed quickly before you run out of launch rod... OL JR :)

That said, I wish that the BP D was a FULL 20 n/s D motor, instead of 17... stretch the burn another .3 seconds would be sweet... but they probably can't fit that much powder into the casing... OL JR :)

PS. Here's an idea, dump the 70 mm casing and make ALL of em 95 mm like the E BP motors.... OL JR :)

[Royatl]

well, of course then you'd make hundreds of thousands of existing rockets obsolete, and you'd trade some of that extra 3ns to carry an extra inch of casing.

what about also suggesting that they drop the 18mm C6, and just go with the 24mm C11 (in a 95mm long casing)?

[STRMan]

what about also suggesting that they drop the 18mm C6, and just go with the 24mm C11 (in a 95mm long casing)?

Bite your tongue! I'd rather have a full line of C6 and C11's than a full line of B4 and B6's.

[GregGleason]

Here is a motor comparison.

Greg

[GregGleason]

If the rocket was 330 grams or less, I would go with the Estes D12. If it were over that, then the D10 gets to be a better choice. The D10 comes up to full thrust almost immediately and keeps on pushing. The D12 would give your rocket a greater opportunity to weather cock if it was on the heavy side.

Greg

[luke strawwalker]

well, of course then you'd make hundreds of thousands of existing rockets obsolete, and you'd trade some of that extra 3ns to carry an extra inch of casing.

what about also suggesting that they drop the 18mm C6, and just go with the 24mm C11 (in a 95mm long casing)?

Yeah, just thinking out loud... :)

I was really surprised to see the 24 mm C11's... I guess for the same reason as the longer cases for the BP E's-- can't fit that much powder into a 18 mm case of standard length??

Oh well... back to the drawing board... LOL:)

Later! OL JR :)

[STRMan]

I think the C11 was more of an attempt to make a high impulse C that would work in Rockets designed for D12 power, yet allow them to be flown in smaller fields without loosing them. Since becoming a BAR, I have to say the C11 is probably my favorite new development over the years I had missed, and almost, ALMOST offsets the loss of the B14. The cancellation of the booster version caused me to stockpile a bunch, and Estes decision to reissue them is a wise one IMO.

[Bazookadale]

well, of course then you'd make hundreds of thousands of existing rockets obsolete, and you'd trade some of that extra 3ns to carry an extra inch of casing.

what about also suggesting that they drop the 18mm C6, and just go with the 24mm C11 (in a 95mm long casing)?


Hmm if hundreds of thousands of existing rockets are made obsolete, then you would have to buy NEW ones from Estes - don't let Barry see this!

[ghrocketman]

In actual use the Composite D10 has a better kick off the pad than the D12. The D15 and D21 have a MUCH better kick than the D12.
The D12 peaks at a higher max thrust than the D10, but due to the higher initial kick, the D10, D15, and D21 are all better at getting heavy rockets off the pad.
The ONLY composite D that has less kick off the pad than a D12 is the 24mm RMS D9. Those are LOUSY at lifting anything. I mistakenly used one of those instead of a D15 reload in my 1972 Enerjet Aero Dart clone and it went from Cruise-Missile to POWR-PRANGG in less than 2 secs. Not pretty !

[AFlyingMonkey]

Your right about the kick off on a D21 thats for sure. I had one of my classic rockets take off on a D21-4 and I lost it in a corn field. It was called Money 2 Burn. I used to work at the Federal Reserve of Kansas City and of course they shred money there. We'll I took a 3 finned baby birtha and coated it with the shredded money, threw a flaming nosecone on top and voila. I'm now in the process of making Money 2 Burn 2. I think I'll put it on a Fat Boy Clone and see what happens. But you blink and you'll miss it.

Too bad my first one landed in a Corn Field never to be seen again.

[Shreadvector]

Your right about the kick off on a D21 thats for sure. I had one of my classic rockets take off on a D21-4 and I lost it in a corn field. It was called Money 2 Burn. I used to work at the Federal Reserve of Kansas City and of course they shred money there. We'll I took a 3 finned baby birtha and coated it with the shredded money, threw a flaming nosecone on top and voila. I'm now in the process of making Money 2 Burn 2. I think I'll put it on a Fat Boy Clone and see what happens. But you blink and you'll miss it.

Too bad my first one landed in a Corn Field never to be seen again.

You should name one of the rockets "Fed Flash"

http://www.frbservices.org/fedflash/index.html

(I read Fed Flash all the time)

[Bill]

You should name one of the rockets "Fed Flash"


or Cash Clunker


Bill