Centuri Orion K-8 Clone - Pod Nose cone/Wrap

[bobdros]

I ordered the parts for the clone from Semroc but I didn't know what to do for the pod nose cones. The parts list said the pod tubes are ST-7 but I found a reference to PNC-20Y for the nose cones but they're for the BT-20 body tubes. Will they work? Or should I have gotten BT-20 body tubes for the pods?

Also, can anyone suggest wraps? I saw a thread that Intruder built a clone using Little Joe wraps. The thread goes back to 2005 or so and now it's five years later. Is there a place that I could get wraps that would work well?

[tbzep]

I ordered the parts for the clone from Semroc but I didn't know what to do for the pod nose cones. The parts list said the pod tubes are ST-7 but I found a reference to PNC-20Y for the nose cones but they're for the BT-20 body tubes. Will they work? Or should I have gotten BT-20 body tubes for the pods?

Also, can anyone suggest wraps? I saw a thread that Intruder built a clone using Little Joe wraps. The thread goes back to 2005 or so and now it's five years later. Is there a place that I could get wraps that would work well?

Nobody has commercially available Orion wraps, or 1/100 scale Saturn wraps, which is what the Orion wraps are based on. There is a guy that has made some vacuformed Saturn wraps in the past, but I don't know if he still does. It's a one-at-a-time, very low volume affair if he does.

You should try making the wraps like Kody (Intruder) did. They look great and it will prepare you for building the SEMROC Saturn 1B if you haven't already. All you need are the LJ wraps and some scrap balsa. :)

The SEMROC site is down right now, so I can't look. When it comes back up, I'll check my order history and see what I bought for Kody's Orion.

[Tau Zero]

I ordered the parts for the clone from Semroc but I didn't know what to do for the pod nose cones. The parts list said the pod tubes are ST-7 but I found a reference to PNC-20Y for the nose cones but they're for the BT-20 body tubes. Will they work? Or should I have gotten BT-20 body tubes for the pods?The pod nose cones should be Semroc BC-710, which are copies of the original Centuri PNC-71. The pod tubes should be 3" long ST-7's, or Semroc ST-730's. Your main tube should be an ST-20, with the appropriate Semroc substitute for a Centuri PNC-231.

That's all I've got!

Cheers,

[tbzep]

The pod nose cones should be Semroc BC-710, which are copies of the original Centuri PNC-71. The pod tubes should be 3" long ST-7's, or Semroc ST-730's. Your main tube should be an ST-20, with the appropriate Semroc substitute for a Centuri PNC-231.

That's all I've got!

Cheers,

The pod NC numbers ring a bell in my head, so that must be what I bought for Kody's. SEMROC is still down and I can't check it, but if you can't trust a CenturiGuy for Centuri rockets, who can ya trust? :p

BTW, it's the same for the Athena, but you make 4 pods.

Oh yeah, I just thought of another wrap source. Jim Neubauer makes wraps for his upscale Orion. You can take his wrap and do some cutting on it for the regular sized Orion, as they are Saturn wraps with an extra piece grafted to the end.

You can contact him and see if he will sell you the wrap separately. It will be considerably more expensive than making your own with LJ wraps from SEMROC and the wraps are bumpy due to the vacuum holes, so you will have to consider the pros and cons of each to make your decision.

[bobdros]

Thanks for the prompt responses! I'll have to check out the LJ wraps. I saw the BC-7XXs at Semroc but I didn't know which one to pick so I did further searches and found a reference to the PNC-20Y and they looked about the right shape. It seems that they're not compatible with the ST-7 tubes. Now that I know that the BC-710s will fit I'll have to order them.

I had gotten the Stiletto repro kit from Semroc and I didn't need to order anything else. I didn't realize that I should have ordered the other parts listed from Semroc though there wasn't an "add to cart" button for each. I was wondering about the nose cones and the BT-20 coupler for the ejection baffle. Will a coupler fit between the rings of the ejection baffle kit?

I found a PDF for the exhaust nozzle. What diameter ring should I get to fit in the nozzle. (I think it's the ST7-ST20 adapter ring.)

I did a search for decals and found Excselior has great decals for all kinds of repros. I order the Orion and Stiletto decals. I can't wait!

[sandman]

Thanks for the prompt responses! I'll have to check out the LJ wraps. I saw the BC-7XXs at Semroc but I didn't know which one to pick so I did further searches and found a reference to the PNC-20Y and they looked about the right shape. It seems that they're not compatible with the ST-7 tubes. Now that I know that the BC-710s will fit I'll have to order them.

I had gotten the Stiletto repro kit from Semroc and I didn't need to order anything else. I didn't realize that I should have ordered the other parts listed from Semroc though there wasn't an "add to cart" button for each. I was wondering about the nose cones and the BT-20 coupler for the ejection baffle. Will a coupler fit between the rings of the ejection baffle kit?

I found a PDF for the exhaust nozzle. What diameter ring should I get to fit in the nozzle. (I think it's the ST7-ST20 adapter ring.)

I did a search for decals and found Excselior has great decals for all kinds of repros. I order the Orion and Stiletto decals. I can't wait!

Your decals are ready to send but I was late getting to the post office today so they have to go out on Monday. Sorry!

Although I've had some printer problems the Orion decals were already printed so you lucked out there.

Paul Graff is the guy that made vacuum wraps that will fit the Orion. I don't know how you can still contact. He used to be registered on the old TRF but I don't think he is now.

[Ltvscout]

Paul Graff is the guy that made vacuum wraps that will fit the Orion. I don't know how you can still contact. He used to be registered on the old TRF but I don't think he is now.
His email was grafgulch@aol.com. You could try emailing him.

[bobdros]

I got the Orion and Stiletto decals today and they look like the originals! Wow!

I emailed Jim Neubauer to see if he still makes the wraps and what they might cost. I'll do the same for Paul Graff.

I also got the parts I ordered from Semroc today. The Semroc parts list said the the coupler is a BTC-20 and it's probably 4" or so but the parts list showed the baffle as 1.75" and the centering coupler as 3/4" so I'm thinking I have to cut it, right?

I'll go back to Semroc when they're back online and order the rest of my parts.

Thanks, guys!

Bob

[sandman]

SENROC is back. I was just there.

[Carl@Semroc]

I need to update those pages!

The original Orion used an unnumbered Centuri nose cone (our BC-1315 (http://www.semroc.com/Store/scripts/prodView.asp?SKU=BC-1315)) and a paper shroud to go from ST-13 to ST-20. The original pods were Centuri BC-71 (our BC-711 (http://www.semroc.com/Store/scripts/prodView.asp?sku=bc-711)) and were later replaced by Centuri PNC-71 (our BC-710 (http://www.semroc.com/Store/scripts/prodView.asp?sku=bc-710)). A few months later, the balsa-shroud nose cone was replaced with the Centuri PNC-231 (our BC-2032 (http://www.semroc.com/Store/scripts/prodView.asp?sku=bc-2032)). Dr. Bob Craddock from the Smithsonian loaned us an early production Orion to use to create a close to original model. I do not think very many were made with all balsa cones, so that is the one we want to recreate.

We have everything ready to kit the Orion except the wrap. We had considered a paper and balsa-detailed wrap since it is hard to get a perfect styrene wrap.

[tbzep]

We have everything ready to kit the Orion except the wrap. We had considered a paper and balsa-detailed wrap since it is hard to get a perfect styrene wrap.

My son whacked some of your Little Joe wraps and used scrap balsa to make a pretty darn nice looking Orion. You could easily kit the Orion with the same concept. Kody had my Centuri Saturns to go by when making the fiddly bits. Since you can only include drawings in your plans, the toughest part of building the Orion would be the modeler's ability to recreate the 3D shapes accurately with only 2D drawings to go by.

Here is the thread for Kody's Orion. (http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=4975&highlight=scratchbuilt+orion) You will be able to see all the small bits that he made to go on the wraps. There is plenty of corrugation detail on the rocket, but it doesn't show up well in the pic.

[tbzep]

I emailed Jim Neubauer to see if he still makes the wraps and what they might cost.


Don't forget that Jim's wraps are for a 2.6" pseudo upscale Orion. They are correct in size vertically, but he added an extra chunk to it to go all the way around the 2.6" tube. You will be able to see the added material and you can cut that off to make the correct size. I have three of his wraps. Like I mentioned above, they are bumpy due to the vacuum holes. They are also slightly curved/warped as you will be able to see if you put a straightedge at the bottom of the corrugations. They won't be perfect, but with some patience and work with an X-acto and some sandpaper, you will get a nice model.

DaveR and Barone saw both my Enerjet Athena where I used one of Jim's wraps, and Kody's Orion with the scratch built wraps based on the Little Joe wraps. I think they will agree that his wraps were cleaner looking. There are only two advantages to Jim's styrene wraps. 1. The small bits are already made. 2. The corrugations are deeper and easier to see from a distance, although they are over scaled compared to a real rocket's corrugations. That could be a negative, according to your sense of scale vs. visibility.

[Initiator001]

We have everything ready to kit the Orion except the wrap. We had considered a paper and balsa-detailed wrap since it is hard to get a perfect styrene wrap.

I am looking VERY forward to when Semroc releases the Orion. :D

Bob

[Carl@Semroc]

I do like the balsa parts on paper wraps. Intruder did a great job.

They are very close to our planned 1/100 scale Saturns. It does make for a modeler's kit where the skill of the modeler determines the outcome, rather than the skill of the tool and die maker that fabricates the injection or vacuum molds.

[tbzep]

I do like the balsa parts on paper wraps. Intruder did a great job.

They are very close to our planned 1/100 scale Saturns. It does make for a modeler's kit where the skill of the modeler determines the outcome, rather than the skill of the tool and die maker that fabricates the injection or vacuum molds.

And you have all you need in stock to kit it right now if you use the Little Joe wraps as-is and let the modeler modify them. Of course it would be easier to use a custom embossed wrap, but if Kody can hack the LJ wraps and make a nice one without the help of great SEMROC instructions to guide him, I think others could with them. :cool:

[bobdros]

Kody did a super job with the "bits". Did he make the bits that glue on to the wrap in the picture? These were plastic pieces that must have been made from a mold. If he made them, can you tell me what he did?

What comes with the Little Joe wrap? Does it include the plastic tree of parts that glue onto it like the Saturn V?

Oh and Carl... I have to tell you that I REALLY appreciate Semroc and the service you provide for us born-again rocketeers! I'm from what I consider the golden age of rockets in the early 70s. I'd dream over the Estes and Centuri catalogs. I still have the Groove Tube, Stiletto, Taurus, Bandito, Black Widow, and Mach 10 and the Shuttle/Engine part of the Space Shuttle.

[tbzep]

Kody did a super job with the "bits". Did he make the bits that glue on to the wrap in the picture? These were plastic pieces that must have been made from a mold. If he made them, can you tell me what he did?

What comes with the Little Joe wrap? Does it include the plastic tree of parts that glue onto it like the Saturn V?

Oh and Carl... I have to tell you that I REALLY appreciate Semroc and the service you provide for us born-again rocketeers! I'm from what I consider the golden age of rockets in the early 70s. I'd dream over the Estes and Centuri catalogs. I still have the Groove Tube, Stiletto, Taurus, Bandito, Black Widow, and Mach 10 and the Shuttle/Engine part of the Space Shuttle.

The Little Joe wraps are just corregated paper, nothing else. Kody took balsa scraps and carved/sanded all the bits to shape that go on the wraps. If you need more detail, I'll have him log on and answer specific questions.

[bobdros]

I have my Saturn V to refer to if it's a matter of carving and sanding. I can see that that would be a bit of work. Kody must be very good at modeling to reproduce all those pieces. It's worth the effort - until Semroc comes out with their own version. Ahh, if only Estes could make stuff like this available!

(Hmm, unless I hear back from one of those guys who's done wraps...)

[tbzep]

I have my Saturn V to refer to if it's a matter of carving and sanding. I can see that that would be a bit of work. Kody must be very good at modeling to reproduce all those pieces. It's worth the effort - until Semroc comes out with their own version. Ahh, if only Estes could make stuff like this available!

(Hmm, unless I hear back from one of those guys who's done wraps...)

Copy the lower 3rd stage wrap for the lower Orion wrap and cut off some of the right side of it to fit down to the ST-20 tube.

The larger upper Orion wrap is from the Saturn 1B and the Saturn V's bits don't match it, but you can still get the feel for how it would look. You will need to go by drawings if you don't have a 1B. George Gassaway has a drawing for the 1B. It's actually more detailed than you need, as the parts from the styrene sheet are smooth to allow for easy molds.

Gassaway's Apollo 7 drawing. (http://homepage.mac.com/georgegassaway/GRP/Scale/SATURN-IB/Sat-IB-70-100pct.gif)

I almost forgot. Jim's wraps are based off the Orion's wraps which were shortened by Centuri, then Jim added about 1 3/4" material to make them fit his 2.6" upscale. You will need to cut the extra off of the right side of his wraps.

If you get a copy of the original Saturn 1B and V wraps from Paul Graf, you will still have to cut some off. The Saturn 1B and Saturn V third stage have a 2.6" diameter and use the full wraps. To modify the full Saturn 1B wrap, you need to cut the extra off of the left side of it, and cut the right side off of the Saturn V wrap which is what Centuri did to create the Orion wraps.

[bobdros]

That's a nice GIF! I can see some similaritites to the plastic pieces on the Saturn V. The APS modules and the retro rockets are similar to what I have on my body wraps. I'll take another look later. Thanks!

[tbzep]

That's a nice GIF! I can see some similaritites to the plastic pieces on the Saturn V. The APS modules and the retro rockets are similar to what I have on my body wraps. I'll take another look later. Thanks!

APS modules on the Saturn V are larger double-humps for lack of a better description and are on the 3rd stage, which will be the lower wrap on the Orion. The APS modules on the Saturn 1B's 2nd stage are plain faired in cylinders.

Also, the retros on the Centuri Saturn 1B model (and Orion large wrap) have both ends streamlined, where the Saturn V retros and Gassaway's 1B drawing have a flat bottom and streamlined top. The flat bottom is accurate for the real Saturn 1B (SA-205 Apollo 7), but not to recreate the Centuri model, which is based on the earlier SA-201 and SA-202 Saturns.

APS Saturn V 3rd stage:
http://www.apollosaturn.com/s501.jpg http://www.apollosaturn.com/s502.jpg http://www.apollosaturn.com/s509.jpg

APS Saturn 1B 2nd stage:
http://www.apollosaturn.com/s315.jpg

[ghrocketman]

I prefer PRECISELY molded / vac formed wraps to ANY sort of embossed cardboard and balsa bits nonsense whenever it can be the choice.

Just like comparing the the Apogee 1/70 Apollo PLASTIC highly detailed capsule to the 1/70 Estes/Semroc capsule. The Estes/Semroc tower for the capsule is a time-consuming tedious several hour affair that results in a product inferior to the Apogee capsule which can be assembled by the LEAST experienced in under an hour.

TEDIUM is not something I happen to relish in hobbies.
I get enough of that on a daily basis.

[tbzep]

I prefer PRECISELY molded / vac formed wraps to ANY sort of embossed cardboard and balsa bits nonsense whenever it can be the choice.


You may prefer them, but the styrene Saturn wraps of Estes and Centuri are extremely off scale. The embossed paper wraps are much closer in scale. Like I said earlier, the only advantages to the styrene wraps are convenience and you can see the corrugations a few feet farther away.

You may prefer styrene, but by no means does that make paper and balsa "nonsense". :mad:

[ghrocketman]

I stand corrected.
Replace the word "Nonsense" with "Nuisance" when comparing embossed cardboard/balsa bits to easily applied vac-formed plastic.
These are stand-off scale rockets, not "precision" anyway. If one really wanted a precision scale Saturn, the only real way to start is with the Apogee kit.
Seeing as there is no such thing as an actual "orion", how can it be off scale ?

[tbzep]

I stand corrected.
Replace the word "Nonsense" with "Nuisance" when comparing embossed cardboard/balsa bits to easily applied vac-formed plastic.
These are stand-off scale rockets, not "precision" anyway. If one really wanted a precision scale Saturn, the only real way to start is with the Apogee kit.
Seeing as there is no such thing as an actual "orion", how can it be off scale ?

Using styrene wraps would make it scale to the original Orion kit. ;)

However, the embossed wraps of the Estes and Semroc Saturns are closer to scale than the styrene wraps of Estes/Centuri. Embossed wraps aren't any trouble at all for me. Making retros, ulage rockets, conduit, etc. can be a time consuming, but it isn't really hard. I think Kody's SEMROC Saturn 1B and his scratch Orion look great.

I agree that the Apogee capsule/escape tower is the way to go while the model is on display. Then throw the SEMROC capsule on it for flight. Styrene is easy to break and it can get pretty expensive to keep buying Apogee capsules at $30 a pop with shipping. :eek:

For a detailed scale model to set on the mantle, I'd like to have the Apogee kits as would most of us. However, I don't have that much spare cash to throw around. I'll stick with the SEMROC kits to fly. :)

[bobdros]

I probably would have preferred styrene to making it myself but if I can't get styrene I might as well take a crack at making the APS modules and retro rockets out of balsa and dowels. I'm not an expert modeler but I'll give it a try.

[grafgulch]

The only wraps I make are for the 1/100th scale Saturn 1b & a 1/70th sport scale Little Joe II. Doesn't the Orion use a Saturn V wrap too?

I have not gotten many requests for the wraps in a long time, but I would be willing to make some more.

Paul Graf

[tbzep]

The only wraps I make are for the 1/100th scale Saturn 1b & a 1/70th sport scale Little Joe II. Doesn't the Orion use a Saturn V wrap too?

I have not gotten many requests for the wraps in a long time, but I would be willing to make some more.

Paul Graf

The Orion uses the 1/100 Saturn 1B interstage wrap and the 1/100 Saturn V lower third stage wrap. The Enerjet Athena uses the same wraps.

[grafgulch]

The 1/100th Saturn 1b wrap I sell is not a direct reproduction to the Estes/Centuri vacuform wraps. I don't make a wrap for a 1/100th scale Saturn V.

With that being said, If my S1B is Ok to clone Orion, then I would be willing to make a reproduction of the required Saturn V wrap. I believe I have some to the details pieces that I could use to make this wrap from my 20th anniv. issue Of the Saturn V.

Is this something that would be worthwhile? I have time now. It has been a long boring winter.

Paul

[Ltvscout]

The 1/100th Saturn 1b wrap I sell is not a direct reproduction to the Estes/Centuri vacuform wraps. I don't make a wrap for a 1/100th scale Saturn V.

With that being said, If my S1B is Ok to clone Orion, then I would be willing to make a reproduction of the required Saturn V wrap. I believe I have some to the details pieces that I could use to make this wrap from my 20th anniv. issue Of the Saturn V.

Is this something that would be worthwhile? I have time now. It has been a long boring winter.
That would be great! I'd buy a set. Will probably buy a 1b and LJ II set as well.

[tbzep]

I will look into doing this. But you know Apogee does sell the SIV-B Wrap (3rd Stage) seperately, so thats a option too. I hate to re-invent the wheel, plus from the looks of it Apogee makes some great wraps. I like to offer parts others don't make.

Another thing I struggling with is the Estes SV wraps are not true scale (meaning the correct number of stringers), but my S1b wraps have the correct number of stringers. If I make a Sat V 3rd stage wraps, should I make it more true to scale or should I try to copy the Estes wrap. I just think sometimes when people try to clone a old kit, they want it to look like the the original kit. I'm I making sense here?

Paul

You make good sense. :)

I think most people would be happy with either version as long as they didn't have to hand make the bits like Kody did for his Orion.

[tbzep]

Something weird just happened. I replied to a post and it showed up above the post I replied to. :eek:

Looks like it time stamped it incorrectly at 1:38. A computer was the farthest thing from my mind at 1:38! :p TRF had some time stamp issues with vBulletin or the server a while back, so that's probably what happened here.

Edit: DOH! It did it with this post too! :eek:

[grafgulch]

I will look into doing this. But you know Apogee does sell the SIV-B Wrap (3rd Stage) seperately, so thats a option too. I hate to re-invent the wheel, plus from the looks of it Apogee makes some great wraps. I like to offer parts others don't make.

Another thing I struggling with is the Estes SV wraps are not true scale (meaning the correct number of stringers), but my S1b wraps have the correct number of stringers. If I make a Sat V 3rd stage wraps, should I make it more true to scale or should I try to copy the Estes wrap. I just think sometimes when people try to clone a old kit, they want it to look like the the original kit. I'm I making sense here?

Paul

[bobdros]

I made the original Orion back in the 70s when I was a kid but now I'd like to build one and make it GOOD! I love the image at the top of the forum page! I'd go for the appropriate wraps if possible. I'm not totally OCD about it but I'd like it as accurate as I could get. So apparently, it's a 1B and SV wrap.

If that's possible, I'd definitely go for it!

(I've just made the ejection baffle and the coupler for the engine mount. Last week Semroc sent me the laser cut parts for the fins and pod stand-offs. I ordered the wrong part for the centering ring (ST7-16) that the engine shroud uses but I used it as a reference guide for the size to cut the ST20 down to size. The part I ordered seems to be the centering ring for a 2 engine cluster.)

I'm thinking that I should take some pictures and find all the links that I used and post 'em.

[grafgulch]

I just started looking at a image of the original wraps for the Orion on the JimZ plans site. I knew these wraps were just cut down versions of a S1b & SV wraps, but it's funny how none of the detail pieces are positioned symetrical around the body after the wraps got cut down. It's kind of like Centuri was lazy and didn't make a unique wrap for the Orion.

Paul

[Ltvscout]

I will look into doing this. But you know Apogee does sell the SIV-B Wrap (3rd Stage) seperately, so thats a option too. I hate to re-invent the wheel, plus from the looks of it Apogee makes some great wraps. I like to offer parts others don't make.
I believe Apogee's kits are 1/70th scale. The Orion uses Centuri's 1/100th scale Saturn V wrap.

[grafgulch]

I believe Apogee's kits are 1/70th scale. The Orion uses Centuri's 1/100th scale Saturn V wrap.

I knew this ....I've been away too long.

[tbzep]

I just started looking at a image of the original wraps for the Orion on the JimZ plans site. I knew these wraps were just cut down versions of a S1b & SV wraps, but it's funny how none of the detail pieces are positioned symetrical around the body after the wraps got cut down. It's kind of like Centuri was lazy and didn't make a unique wrap for the Orion.

Paul

What's odd is that they didn't just chop off some finished wraps, they chopped off the end of the molds! :eek:

For the folks that don't pay attention to detail, look at the edges all the way around the Orion wraps. If they were full length 1B and V wraps that were chopped off, they wouldn't have that flange on one end.

[Carl@Semroc]

Has anyone done a Rocksim file for the Centuri Orion?

[tbzep]

Has anyone done a Rocksim file for the Centuri Orion?

I doubt it since it was a stable kit, but that leads me to wonder why you would need it. Might you be getting ready to do something? :D

[CPMcGraw]

Has anyone done a Rocksim file for the Centuri Orion?

Carl,

I seem to have one of these sim'd up, from back in January 2007. I thought they had been posted here... somewhere... :rolleyes:

I'm looking them over now, and it's obvious they were done pre-RS9. I'll rework the pods and post the file tonight...

[Ltvscout]

I doubt it since it was a stable kit, but that leads me to wonder why you would need it. Might you be getting ready to do something? :D
What do you think? It is in my logo, isn't it? :D

[Carl@Semroc]

Carl,

I seem to have one of these sim'd up, from back in January 2007. I thought they had been posted here... somewhere... :rolleyes:

I'm looking them over now, and it's obvious they were done pre-RS9. I'll rework the pods and post the file tonight...Craig,

I have attached a working file. It includes the new BC-2031 which is a balsa replacement for the original balsa and paper cone. It is a little more complex than the original or the plastic cones. I also have the BC-711 cones on a pod.

[Carl@Semroc]

What do you think? It is in my logo, isn't it? :DLooks like free advertising for someone. :D

[Ltvscout]

Looks like free advertising for someone. :D
Ya, and since it appears Ray has fallen off the face of the earth, you may as well put out that Skydart as well!

[CPMcGraw]

Carl (and all...),

Here's a simulation run for the RKT file you posted earlier. I finished it up with fins and what-knots... :rolleyes:

--Data Specs--

Weight: 3.47 oz
Length: 22.624"
Empty margin: 8.86


B6-2.......157'......Dv 19 FPS......60" launch guide
C6-3.......447'......Dv 30 FPS......60" launch guide
D10-5.....1057'......Dv 22 FPS......24" launch guide


Note the launch guide requirements. It needs at least a D (or a core-burner C) to get off the pad cleanly.

[CPMcGraw]

FWIW...

The earlier plan I mentioned was from 2007, and it did not work. The sim would continuously NAN out on me, meaning there was something about the configuration that RockSim was crashing on. However, I managed to use the fins and pod supports from that file to finish this one.

[Carl@Semroc]

When the .010" thickness of the wrap is entered, it drops to about 39" rod. Strange. Now I am just going to have to build one!

Thanks Craig for all your work on this. Sure saved me a few hours.

[Rocketcrab]

I doubt it since it was a stable kit, but that leads me to wonder why you would need it. Might you be getting ready to do something? :D

We can only hope!!! :chuckle:

[Vanel]

Launched my Orion clone yesterday on a B6 -2 with a moderate breeze (~5 mph), using a standard 3' rod. Nice straight trajectory, with an altitude just over 100'.

[GregGleason]

... We have everything ready to kit the Orion except the wrap. We had considered a paper and balsa-detailed wrap since it is hard to get a perfect styrene wrap.



Carl,

I'm getting in the queue to buy that one once you have the kit! The Orion is one of my all time favorites, a real classic.

Greg

[ghrocketman]

The one my buddy built when we were kids always flew fine on plain-jane B6-2's and C6-3's.
It did fly considerably better on the C5-3 which is no longer available for some IDIOTIC reason. NOBODY could even possibly want the C6-3 over the C5-3. The C5-3 had a high thrust spike along with a long tailing off burn. Would lift more higher. I cannot think of a single legitimate use that the C6-3 would outperform the C5-3. Estes scrapped the WRONG motor. Hopefully the new owners will make far fewer MORONIC decisions than the last regime.

[bobdros]

I got my wraps from Paul today! Very nice! The larger wraps have the "fiddly bits" but the smaller, lower wrap needs to have the few bits carved and sanded. No matter what, it's going to look very nice!

[grafgulch]

I got my wraps from Paul today! Very nice! The larger wraps have the "fiddly bits" but the smaller, lower wrap needs to have the few bits carved and sanded. No matter what, it's going to look very nice!

Hi Bob,

I'm glad you got & like the wraps. The wraps you got are specifically for the Saturn 1b (SA-203 to be exact.) I do still plan on making wraps that are a closer match the original Centuri Orion.

Paul

[bobdros]

I'll probably want to make anothe Orion clone so put me on the list when you get around to it! (The Orion is one of my favorites from the 70s.)

[bobdros]

I got the wraps from Paul and even though they're not the same as the ones shown in the image on JimZ. I'm thinking I can use the smaller wrap but I'm not sure the best way to carve the "fiddly bits" that you see in the image.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Do you sand pieces into the shape and how would you do that? (I don't have any experience with that level of detail.)

[tbzep]

I got the wraps from Paul and even though they're not the same as the ones shown in the image on JimZ. I'm thinking I can use the smaller wrap but I'm not sure the best way to carve the "fiddly bits" that you see in the image.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Do you sand pieces into the shape and how would you do that? (I don't have any experience with that level of detail.)

Just cut the general shape, then sand the contours. Use Paul's wraps as a guide to shape the bits except for the retros (the longest pieces). Where Paul's is correct for the Saturn 1B manned flights with a flat aft end, the Orion's is tapered at both ends.

SEMROC has their Orion ready to ship as soon as they get their computers back online. Their kit comes with embossed wraps and pre cut bits. You will still have to sand the bits to round the edges off a little, but they are pre-cut into their general shapes. I would save Paul's wraps for a Saturn and order SEMROC's kit, or at least order the wraps and fin set with the pre-cut bits.

[bobdros]

I am DEFINITELY ordering a kite when they get back online! (I was real sorry to read about Carl. It takes awhile to recover from a heart attack.)