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Carl@Semroc
03-17-2010, 09:43 PM
Some history behind this kit....

I have always wanted an Orion and Athena. I think they came out in the final (frantic) days of Semroc Version 1.0. We were looking into styrene wraps, but never got to it. The Centuri Saturn 1/100 scales, LJII, and other super scale stuff was all on our want to do list.

I mentioned the Orion to Dr. Bob Craddock years ago and he generously offered to loan me one to use to produce a kit. I declined at the time, knowing it would be a while before we could do a good job with it. Bob is a good friend of the hobby AND very persistent. When we were invited to the Garber facility to see the Sine collection during NARAM-50, Bob went to his van and brought back an opened, very early model of the Orion. He told me to keep it until we could release it as a kit.

It was a second run version. It still had everything from the first production kits, including the first instruction sheets, with all balsa nose cones shown. It had a pack of 6 plastic pod cones with an addendum showing how to use them instead of the balsa pod cones described in the instructions.

It has taken a while to decide how to do it as a kit. Slowly, we made some design decisions that are evident in the final version. We went with the original balsa pod cones (BNC-711) which were like the Centuri BC-71. We almost released the large nose cone as a combination of the BC-1315 and paper shroud, but released the BC-2031 instead to get the same shape. The original (BC-1315) tip had about a .35" radius and the later plastic nose cone (PNC-231) had a .54" radius. I liked the more pointed design. It also has a slight step about 1.5" from the tip where the paper reducer would have been.

We have tried the styrene wraps many different ways and could not get them close enough to the original. Since the wraps were based on the Centuri Saturn V Inter-stage wrapper and the Centuri Saturn 1B Lower Third Stage wrapper, I already had many drawings for the small pieces for upcoming 1/100 scale releases. Since the original Centuri wraps were for larger tubes, they cut the wraps short, winding up with some misplacement, if you want symmetry. I rearranged the parts slightly to make them more balanced and did similar paper wraps.

tbzep and Intruder provided the inspiration for non-styrene wraps. I figured that this was a good model to prepare skills for the Saturn 1B and Saturn V.

Thanks to Dr. Bob Craddock for the use of the model and needed push, Craig McGraw that spent several hours when I was out of time to do the RockSim file, and tbzep and Intruder for showing me what good results can be had with balsa and paper.

By the way, Bob sent me an email stating, "Larry Brown was the original designer of the Orion and Athena The Orion was actually based on a model rocket kit his dad had invented years before Carlisle. We actually have the only surviving version of that rocket in the SI collection now. “ His name will be on future covers of the kit.

Oh.. one more thing. Why Centuri Orion, instead of Orion? We were working on an Orion-Constellation-Aries, before it became Fantasy Scale and did not want all the different Orion’s out there to be confused with the original Centuri version.

stefanj
03-17-2010, 10:26 PM
Thanks for the history / behind the scenes work!

zog139
03-17-2010, 10:42 PM
Fascinating !

Gus
03-18-2010, 12:44 AM
Carl,

Thanks for the info. I've received my kits and they're beautiful.

I bought a set of "original" Orion wraps on Ebay a while back and I'm anxious to see how they fit. But first I have to find them. :o

I think the wrap may be with the Orion parts I ordered from Semroc a while back. :eek:

bacasino
03-18-2010, 09:30 AM
I love reading this kind of stuff.......makes the kit that a even more interesting. :)


Brett

DeanHFox
03-18-2010, 10:30 AM
Since you happened to MENTION the Athena...any chance we'll be seeing such a kit being offered soon from our friends at SEMROC? :)

(or, if not, maybe an SLS Orion?) :D

Robobud
03-18-2010, 11:34 AM
Carl,
got my kit yesterday and its awesome...can't wait to get started on it!

jamjammer53150
03-18-2010, 04:36 PM
I cant find a pic of the darn thing

GregGleason
03-18-2010, 04:51 PM
I cant find a pic of the darn thing



Click here (http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showpost.php?p=89223&postcount=1).

Greg

Pyro Pro
03-18-2010, 05:05 PM
I cant find a pic of the darn thing

And here (http://www.semroc.com/Store/scripts/RocketKits.asp?SKU=KV-41) or here (http://www.semroc.com/Store/ProdImages/Orion-lg.jpg) :)

Doug Sams
03-18-2010, 05:33 PM
Click here (http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showpost.php?p=89223&postcount=1).Ya know, everytime I look at that pic, I think that I couldn't build that bird without stuffing motors in those outboard tubes :D I'd have to...even if it meant using a different diameter tube to accomodate the motor (should it not already be big enough) .

Doug

.

tbzep
03-19-2010, 07:31 AM
Since you happened to MENTION the Athena...any chance we'll be seeing such a kit being offered soon from our friends at SEMROC? :)

(or, if not, maybe an SLS Orion?) :D

It's an easy clone. Use the SEMROC Orion's nosecone, wraps, pods, and cones, the SEMROC Centurion's fins, and whatever motor tube size you want, but SEMROC has the correct body and motor tube sizes also. I forgot which transition section I used, but I can check on it. I did my own decals, but I'm sure Gordon can whip some out for you, assuming his decal sheet order comes through.

I think pics are on this thread. Photobucket is blocked here at work so I can't see any pics.
http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=5241&highlight=athena

Mark II
03-19-2010, 05:22 PM
And remember: if you order all of the parts for an Athena clone, Semroc will release a kit of it. ;)

OK, maybe that only works when tbzep does it. :D

Mark K.

rokitflite
03-19-2010, 09:50 PM
Got 4 of them in for my store today :D ... 1 is gone, 1 is spoken for.

Initiator001
03-20-2010, 12:53 AM
I couldn't resist any longer.

I ordered an Orion from Semroc. :D

Bob

tbzep
03-20-2010, 07:10 PM
And remember: if you order all of the parts for an Athena clone, Semroc will release a kit of it. ;)

OK, maybe that only works when tbzep does it. :D

Mark K.

I've already cloned it. Carl is just behind schedule. :p

ghrocketman
03-20-2010, 07:17 PM
I cloned the Athena 3 years ago.
Did another one last summer ta boot.
Actually surprised Carl came out with the Orion instead of the Athena, but I guess many more are aware of the Orion than the Athena.
The Athena only was catalogued in the last and only Enerjet catalog, 1972, but it is my understanding that most of the Enerjet kits were available until at least 1976, some even longer. I think the Nike Ram may have been available several years longer.

BoosterDude
03-21-2010, 07:36 AM
Anybody ever convert the Orion to 24mm so they could use D12's? Seems like the size and weight would really be perfect for D's.

ghrocketman
03-21-2010, 10:16 AM
24mm is definitely the plan for mine once I order it.

Royatl
03-21-2010, 12:36 PM
Anybody ever convert the Orion to 24mm so they could use D12's? Seems like the size and weight would really be perfect for D's.

I converted my first one (in 1971) to 21mm to work with FSI motors!

Robobud
03-21-2010, 12:57 PM
I cloned the Athena 3 years ago.
Did another one last summer ta boot.
Actually surprised Carl came out with the Orion instead of the Athena, but I guess many more are aware of the Orion than the Athena.
The Athena only was catalogued in the last and only Enerjet catalog, 1972, but it is my understanding that most of the Enerjet kits were available until at least 1976, some even longer. I think the Nike Ram may have been available several years longer.


Can we pre-order an Athena kit :D

BoosterDude
03-21-2010, 03:33 PM
24mm is definitely the plan for mine once I order it.


Mine too!

A Fish Named Wallyum
03-21-2010, 04:20 PM
I cloned the Athena 3 years ago.
Did another one last summer ta boot.
Actually surprised Carl came out with the Orion instead of the Athena, but I guess many more are aware of the Orion than the Athena.
The Athena only was catalogued in the last and only Enerjet catalog, 1972, but it is my understanding that most of the Enerjet kits were available until at least 1976, some even longer. I think the Nike Ram may have been available several years longer.

Did you post pics?

ghrocketman
03-22-2010, 03:57 PM
If I recall correctly I posted some pics with paint work complete but no decals back when I built it.
I no longer have a working digital camera other than on my phone, and 1.8MP resolution stinks so don't even ask.

tbzep
03-22-2010, 04:12 PM
I remember the Athena pic. Seems like it was sitting next to another Enerjet kit.

Les
03-22-2010, 08:54 PM
The Orion looks great - will need to order one soon.

I am familiar with the Orion Starfighter. Estes had a 2fer with the Torellian Invader.

But what was the Orion Starship that is offered as an Xkit from Semroc. I don't see a picture on their site (just a little box with a red x). Can someone point me to a picture of this?

Thanks

Intruder
03-22-2010, 09:21 PM
http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/nostalgia/72cen036.html

tbzep
03-22-2010, 10:21 PM
The Orion looks great - will need to order one soon.

I am familiar with the Orion Starfighter. Estes had a 2fer with the Torellian Invader.

But what was the Orion Starship that is offered as an Xkit from Semroc. I don't see a picture on their site (just a little box with a red x). Can someone point me to a picture of this?

Thanks

The Orion Starship xkit has a number that matches up with the Orion Starfighter 2fer. ES-1343S vs Estes' 1343. Coincidence? :eek:

ghrocketman
03-23-2010, 10:27 AM
I think when I photographed my Athena Clone it was next to my Enerjet (1972 catalog) Aero Dart clone.

Les
03-23-2010, 08:33 PM
http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/nostalgia/72cen036.html
That looks like a picture of the Orion itself.

At Semroc, they list the Orion, Orion Starfighter, and Orion Starship.

I am familiar with the first two, but not the last. What does the Orion Starship look like?

Intruder
03-23-2010, 09:55 PM
Oh. I never noticed that before.

Carl@Semroc
03-23-2010, 10:26 PM
I am familiar with the first two, but not the last. What does the Orion Starship look like?Good question! :o


I was editing the Orion Starfighter at the same time as the Starship Excalibur and mixed up a few things.

The Orion Starfighter does look good when built. Sorry, no pictures, 'cause it is still nekkid.

LeeR
03-30-2010, 08:22 PM
Good question! :o


I was editing the Orion Starfighter at the same time as the Starship Excalibur and mixed up a few things.

The Orion Starfighter does look good when built. Sorry, no pictures, 'cause it is still nekkid.

No pictures? It does not exist!

I promised myself no Orion until I start the Mars Lander (clarification, start the first of the two I bought. And I think they were bought in 2008 ...)

I did start it, but just legs. OK, I'll take picture tonight, since I do not want to be labeled a hypocrite ...
:)

tbzep
03-30-2010, 08:28 PM
I filled the spirals and slapped some stuff on all the cones of my second Orion. I love sanding so much that it will probably stay that way for about a month. :rolleyes:

Mark II
03-31-2010, 02:50 AM
I filled the spirals and slapped some stuff on all the cones of my second Orion. I love sanding so much that it will probably stay that way for about a month. :rolleyes:Only a month? I have a few that have been wearing FnF stripes for a couple of years now. :o

Mark K.

tbzep
03-31-2010, 07:28 AM
Only a month? I have a few that have been wearing FnF stripes for a couple of years now. :o

Mark K.

Like my SEMROC Saturn 1B...filled body tubes piled in the box. At least I sanded the nose cone and LES parts. :o

My SEMROC SST Shuttle 1 has been built but sitting partially sanded for about three years. I may never get around to sanding all those nooks and crannies between the ramjets. I let my Orbital Transport sit about that long before finally finishing it too. Come to think of it, all of my rockets with more than a minimal amount of sanding needed have had an extended period of laying around in FnF and/or primer condition. :rolleyes:

ghrocketman
03-31-2010, 10:11 AM
Exactly why I never fill tube sprials on ANYTHING but scale jobs, and I did not even do that on my first Semroc S1B. Not worth the effort AT ALL in my opinion. Unless one is building for a contest where FINISH is competitively judged it is a huge waste of time in my opinion.
Most of my builds would sit for months too if I had to be sanding spirals all the time.

Mark II
04-01-2010, 01:52 AM
Exactly why I never fill tube sprials on ANYTHING but scale jobs, and I did not even do that on my first Semroc S1B. Not worth the effort AT ALL in my opinion. Unless one is building for a contest where FINISH is competitively judged it is a huge waste of time in my opinion.
Most of my builds would sit for months too if I had to be sanding spirals all the time.There's something to be said for that approach - "just get the darned thing done and fly it already." I have been tempted, but I can't quite bring myself to just slap on some paint and a decal. I do respect people who can make their rockets look good without fussing over them; they get a lot more built than I do. It's not that I hate the idea of sanding so much, it's that I tend to procrastinate. So I end up flying most of my rockets when they are either in Lady Godiva mode or when they have a coat of primer on them for modesty's sake. (I know - it's scandalous, really.) I worry that my FSI clones will all end up looking like the rockets in the Reese Industries catalog (http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/catalogs/reese_rc1/rc1f.html). (I call that the Ghost Theme. :rolleyes: )

And the ironic thing is, I like painting rockets. But I do have one excuse: for 6 months out of the year, it is too cold around here to paint. From the end of September to the beginning of May I accumulate a decent backlog of stuff that is waiting to be dusted with color. And then when the warm weather comes, I am faced with a dilemma: stay at home and paint my rockets or go out and launch them? I usually end up doing both, but more of one than the other. ;) :D

Whenever I go to launches, I am always envious of the folks who have all of their rockets painted and plastered with decals. I keep wondering how they manage to do all of that.

Mark K.

rokitflite
04-01-2010, 08:40 AM
I attribute 4 things to my actually getting models done in a timely fashion:

Elmers Fill-n-Finish which makes quick work of balsa filling jobs.

Plastikote Spot Filler And Primer, same as above but even quicker to apply and less drying time.

Old Krylon, Testors Lacquers and Tamiya sprays Which all dry VERY fast and give me no runs, drips or errors :D .

And lastly, my Alps printer. I look forward to applying decals I made to a project and will now often design the decals BEFORE the model! During my several month decal paper ordeal I didn't even bother to work on models :rolleyes:

PaulK
04-01-2010, 08:51 AM
And the ironic thing is, I like painting rockets. But I do have one excuse: for 6 months out of the year, it is too cold around here to paint. From the end of September to the beginning of May I accumulate a decent backlog of stuff that is waiting to be dusted with color. And then when the warm weather comes, I am faced with a dilemma: stay at home and paint my rockets or go out and launch them? I usually end up doing both, but more of one than the other. ;) :DYou might try doing winter painting, I've had pretty good success with it. I have a large cardboard box in my unheated garage, and paint all winter. Take the warm rocket & paint into garage, spray light coat, bring back in. I've done it outside in the winter too, but has to be a perfectly calm day. I don't know how well this will work with enamels, I'm still using Old Krylon & lacquers.

LeeR
04-02-2010, 11:44 PM
I've done winter painting a lot in Colorado, but our winters are usually pretty mild, with warm calm days throughout the winter. This year I've not had nearly the opportunities to paint outside.

I've had good results with enamels, but we have low humidity, and so painting conditions are usually pretty good any time of the year. As long as its reasonably warm, and winds are non-existent, I'll paint.

jharding58
04-03-2010, 04:15 PM
You know how on the Semroc site there is the your account section? And you know how you can copy the content and paste it into Excel and autosum the dollar fields? And you know how sometimes you print something and leave it in the printer in your home office? And you know how you sometimes ask "she who must be obeyed" to pick up the email from your neice you printed on that very same printer?

Anyway, I took a little time to repair the marital bliss and finished the Orion which I had contracted. So here it is. Now I have to see what I can build without sitting down for a while.

Ane please Carl, stay well and healthy for many, many, years. There are a ton of old models that I am sure would be immensely popular - Cindy Crawford for example.

GregGleason
04-03-2010, 05:25 PM
Very nice Orion!

Greg

jharding58
04-03-2010, 07:58 PM
Many thanks for that - however the majority of the credit must go to Carl. I think I shook the bag two or three times and then painted the result.

jharding58
04-04-2010, 04:34 PM
This is my beauty shot. Still needs clear coat.

hcmbanjo
04-04-2010, 07:19 PM
Maybe I've missed a post about this -
In the YORF header illustration the Orion has been replaced with a Centuri Quasar.

Was this done because the Orion has been re-released by Semroc?

CPMcGraw
04-04-2010, 07:54 PM
Maybe I've missed a post about this -
In the YORF header illustration the Orion has been replaced with a Centuri Quasar.

Was this done because the Orion has been re-released by Semroc?

Scott's Announcement... (http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=6867&highlight=logo)

GregGleason
04-04-2010, 08:40 PM
Ha!

I missed that. I like the Quasar. Not quite the panache of the Orion but still a great Centuri classic.

Greg

hcmbanjo
04-04-2010, 09:27 PM
Well, that explains it. I thought it was something along that line.
Thanks Craig!

Mark II
04-05-2010, 01:15 AM
You might try doing winter painting, I've had pretty good success with it. I have a large cardboard box in my unheated garage, and paint all winter. Take the warm rocket & paint into garage, spray light coat, bring back in. I've done it outside in the winter too, but has to be a perfectly calm day. I don't know how well this will work with enamels, I'm still using Old Krylon & lacquers.Well, see, that's the thing...I don't have a garage. I have done lightning quick spritzes of tubes with primer while standing just outside my back door, and then dashing right back inside with them, but I don't think that it will work for applying smooth topcoats at -15° with nothing but the celestial dome over my head.

I remember there being a calm day here once, about 4 summers ago. It was kinda spooky. It was one of the very few times that I ever launched a rocket to over 1,000 ft. at my local range, and that was the only one of those rockets that didn't become an EAB (http://www.adirondackdailyenterprise.com/page/content.detail/id/506984.html?nav=5008) collector.

Mark K.

tbzep
04-05-2010, 07:23 AM
I remember there being a calm day here once, about 4 summers ago. It was kinda spooky. It was one of the very few times that I ever launched a rocket to over 1,000 ft. at my local range, and that was the only one of those rockets that didn't become an EAB (http://www.adirondackdailyenterprise.com/page/content.detail/id/506984.html?nav=5008) collector.

Mark K.

Sounds like those beetles were kicking your ash. :p

Mark II
04-05-2010, 02:57 PM
Sounds like those beetles were kicking your ash. :pMy array of ash borer traps were unofficial, though, and not part of DEC's project. But maybe if I scatter a few more long, skinny and brightly decorated tubes high up in the forest canopy, I can apply for a grant. :rolleyes:

Mark K.

DeWain
05-04-2010, 02:08 PM
I have been toying around with different options for building the Orion. I was planning on using the Moldin Oldies (now with Sirius Rocketry) resin cone and getting vacuum formed wraps made. I was still planning on going this route until I read Carl's opening post. With Carl's kit, I can make the placement of the thingies (like the APUs) symmetrical (normally I'm a stickler about classics, but... hmmm..) and Carl's model with probably fly better with the balsa cone (hmmm...). So Carl's kit it is.

Solomoriah
05-05-2010, 06:47 PM
I must like sanding, 'cause I sure do a lot of it.

Mark II
05-06-2010, 01:41 AM
I must like sanding, 'cause I sure do a lot of it.I think of it more as penance. For what, I don't know. I can think of a few reasons, though. ;)

MK

LeeR
05-06-2010, 08:05 PM
I like sanding for the same reason I like to hit my thumb with a hammer when pounding nails -- because it just feels so good when I stop ...

Solomoriah
05-07-2010, 08:34 AM
Actually I don't mind it so much. It's sort of a Zen activity, lets me wind down after a busy day at work.

But sometimes I just want to get DONE.