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Doug Sams
08-08-2010, 11:24 AM
Before I glue this wrong :) I'd like to get some input on how the escape tower lines up with the Mercury capsule. How do the tower legs line up with respect to the markings on the capsule? And which leg goes where?

http://www.doug79.com/little-joe/tower-rotation2p.jpg

There's a protrusion at the top of the tower. So perhaps a better question is, where should it be rotated to with respect to the capsule? Thanks. Doug

http://www.doug79.com/little-joe/tower-tank-p.jpg

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tbzep
08-08-2010, 12:10 PM
The leg closest to the "protrusion" should be centered on the glass window, not the hatch JFK is looking in.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y250/PhotozOnline/Album%20Two/JFK_inspects_Mercury_capsule_23_Feb.jpg

http://stellar-views.com/images/MA6_62-MA6-74.jpg

tbzep
08-08-2010, 12:30 PM
BTW, the protrusion (conduit?) looks like it needs a big trim job judging by the way it looks in the photo.

Pem Tech
08-08-2010, 02:53 PM
Before I glue this wrong :) I'd like to get some input on how the escape tower lines up with the Mercury capsule. How do the tower legs line up with respect to the markings on the capsule? And which leg goes where?

http://www.doug79.com/little-joe/tower-rotation2p.jpg

There's a protrusion at the top of the tower. So perhaps a better question is, where should it be rotated to with respect to the capsule? Thanks. Doug

http://www.doug79.com/little-joe/tower-tank-p.jpg
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Hey, that is a nice looking Mercury capsule...
What kit is it from?

Doug Sams
08-08-2010, 03:55 PM
Hey, that is a nice looking Mercury capsule...
What kit is it from?It's from the recent 1/35 scale Estes kit, which, as I understand it, is a morph of the earlier 1/35 Centuri kit.

I have three in my stash. Interestingly enough, two have the capsule and tower molded in red plastic while this one was molded in white but is otherwise identical.

Doug

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Doug Sams
08-08-2010, 06:23 PM
The leg closest to the "protrusion" should be centered on the glass window, not the hatch JFK is looking in. That's good input, Tim. Thanks a bunch.


BTW, the protrusion (conduit?) looks like it needs a big trim job judging by the way it looks in the photo.With respect to your pic, I agree. And most of the other pics I've seen make the section look cylindrical.

But I did find one drawing that not only shows it, but shows it big. (BTW, the other two capsules I have both have the big "fin". It's definitely not flashing :))

http://www.doug79.com/little-joe/capsuletower-p.jpg

Not sure the origin of this drawing, but it seems very close to the Estes kit.

Doug

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tbzep
08-08-2010, 08:03 PM
You're definitely correct that it isn't flashing. It has nice sharp square lines. I've got a few Estes 1/35 MR's, both the Centuri rebadged version and the most recent with all the plastic junk and crappy peel-n-cuss decals, along with a Mercury Atlas that I haven't finished. They all have the huge conduit.

It makes me wonder if there was an early prototype or test version with a big conduit. I've never seen any MR or MA tower photos with a conduit that big.

Earl
08-08-2010, 08:13 PM
It's from the recent 1/35 scale Estes kit, which, as I understand it, is a morph of the earlier 1/35 Centuri kit.

I have three in my stash. Interestingly enough, two have the capsule and tower molded in red plastic while this one was molded in white but is otherwise identical.

Doug

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Yes, I believe the 'original' Centuri Mercury Redstone plastic capsules were typically molded in black plastic. I have some number of the early 90s Estes re-issue (same exact capsule....they owned the mold by then) and they are (were) molded in red plastic. Then.....the even later releases (like for the Mercury-Atlas kit) and the 'Liberty Bell 7' Mercury-Redstone kit were in white plastic (typically).

I think Centuri did a nice job on the capsule. As one can see from the various 'real' Mercury spacecraft photos posted in this thread that the tower legs and crossmembers are definitely over-sized (in cross-section diameter) in the Centuri version, but if molded to 'true-scale', those plastic members would have been probably way too fragile for a 'flying' kit and would undoubtedly have broken very easily.

Earl

Doug Sams
08-08-2010, 08:37 PM
As one can see from the various 'real' Mercury spacecraft photos posted in this thread that the tower legs and crossmembers are definitely over-sized (in cross-section diameter) in the Centuri version, but if molded to 'true-scale', those plastic members would have been probably way too fragile for a 'flying' kit and would undoubtedly have broken very easily. That's the kind of re-engineering I like. I much prefer adaptations for improved flight worthiness over authenticity.

In the case of the Redstone (I was building the capsule to use with my Little Joe I, mission LJ-5b, and I ended up working on the Redstone, too :)) I realized too late, after joining the two lengths of airframe, that there's a huge space there for the chute and wadding to fall way down in. So I've decided to add a bulkhead in the upper half to keep the chute, wadding and shock cord in the upper section of the rocket. This is one of those improvements I feel are merited over keeping it strictly stock.

Heck, come to think of it, I don't own hardly anything that's strictly stock :D

Doug

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jharding58
09-07-2010, 06:43 PM
Got to agree on the use of stuffer tube. I revise the airframe to include a gap between the engine unit and the propellant section where the nuts were accessed. Also punch holes in the upper tube to represent the fill/drain valves. This entails a section of joiner tube between the two sections and a stuffer to clear the gaps.

If I can get my act together I have a set of PE fittings for the valves and pull out covers to be printed. Any interest?

jharding58
09-07-2010, 07:53 PM
Also thought I would submit this photo which I use for placement of the capsule markings. Note that the porthole versus window location is pretty clear.

mojo1986
09-08-2010, 07:35 AM
It's from the recent 1/35 scale Estes kit, which, as I understand it, is a morph of the earlier 1/35 Centuri kit.

I have three in my stash. Interestingly enough, two have the capsule and tower molded in red plastic while this one was molded in white but is otherwise identical.

Doug

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Doug, what is the kit number? And is there one produced with waterslide decals rather than the 'peel 'n' cuss' ones?

Joe

Doug Sams
09-08-2010, 07:56 AM
Doug, what is the kit number? And is there one produced with waterslide decals rather than the 'peel 'n' cuss' ones?Joe,

It's 2167. As far as I know, they only offered peel-n-stick. But I think some folks have bought after-market decals to use.

HTH.

Doug

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GregGleason
09-08-2010, 07:57 AM
Got to agree on the use of stuffer tube. I revise the airframe to include a gap between the engine unit and the propellant section where the nuts were accessed. Also punch holes in the upper tube to represent the fill/drain valves. This entails a section of joiner tube between the two sections and a stuffer to clear the gaps.

If I can get my act together I have a set of PE fittings for the valves and pull out covers to be printed. Any interest?

You can see the Redstone's V2 heritage in that second pic with the fin can gap.

The apple doesn't fall far from the launch table. :D

I plan to go by JSC next month, and I'll see if I can get some pics of their MR, LJII, and the renovated Saturn V (Apollo 18).

Greg

jamjammer53150
09-08-2010, 08:12 AM
I just want a nice RS kit ... I have seriosley consideed liberating the assembeled one hanging from the hobby shop cieling , making a capsule mold and stealthy returning it .

Royatl
09-08-2010, 08:18 AM
Don't know if it has been mentioned but there is a problem with the Centuri/Estes Mercury capsule in that the number of panels of corrugations is less than the number on the real vehicle. I don't have it in front of me, but there are 16 or 18 panels on the model, vs 24 for the real. Or maybe it's 12 vs 18, but anyway, it is something like that.

GregGleason
09-08-2010, 09:41 AM
Some link resources for modeling the Mercury capsule, in case you haven't seen it:

http://ninfinger.org/models/rms_tips/mr3.html

http://www.mercuryspacecraft.com/wiki/Main_Page

http://realspacemodels.com/html/merc.htm

Greg

jharding58
09-08-2010, 05:08 PM
I just want a nice RS kit ... I have seriosley consideed liberating the assembeled one hanging from the hobby shop cieling , making a capsule mold and stealthy returning it .

You got the time to mold it, I got a ton of the capsule. :)

Bill
09-08-2010, 05:41 PM
Some link resources for modeling the Mercury capsule, in case you haven't seen it:

http://ninfinger.org/models/rms_tips/mr3.html



Is there an easier way to convert the capsule to a Freedom 7 other than what Ralph did (replace the window with part of the capsule cut from a second kit) ?

Maybe make a mold to cast a thin skin to cover the window?

Oops -- gotta go -- the tornado sirens just went off...


Bill

Bill
09-08-2010, 05:53 PM
Oops -- gotta go -- the tornado sirens just went off...


Phew. It was west of me and is headed off to the north...toward our flying field. Good thing I do not have to board up the windows and evacuate. I do not know how you guys in hurricane country do it.


Bill

jharding58
09-08-2010, 06:01 PM
Is there an easier way to convert the capsule to a Freedom 7 other than what Ralph did (replace the window with part of the capsule cut from a second kit) ?

Maybe make a mold to cast a thin skin to cover the window?

Oops -- gotta go -- the tornado sirens just went off...


Bill

Yeah, but the Estes capsule really was MR-3. From MR-4 on there is a window immediately to the left of the hatch. Then again, from fifteen feet away most will not know and few will notice.

Bill
09-08-2010, 06:27 PM
Yeah, but the Estes capsule really was MR-3. From MR-4 on there is a window immediately to the left of the hatch. Then again, from fifteen feet away most will not know and few will notice.


I do not have the kit in front of me, but I seem to recall that the capsule has the window instead of the porthole as it is the same part used on the Mercury-Atlas kits.

I'll go dig one out tomorrow and check.


Bill

Bill
09-08-2010, 06:52 PM
Also thought I would submit this photo which I use for placement of the capsule markings. Note that the porthole versus window location is pretty clear.


Trivia question time.

Deke Slayton was scheduled to make an orbital flight after John Glenn, but was grounded due to a heart problem. Had he been able to fly, what nickname would his capsule bear?

As I understand it, each astronaut was permitted to pick his own nickname, so I doubt that Slayton named the ship Aurora and Carpenter chose to keep it.


Bill

jharding58
09-08-2010, 07:50 PM
I do not have the kit in front of me, but I seem to recall that the capsule has the window instead of the porthole as it is the same part used on the Mercury-Atlas kits.

I'll go dig one out tomorrow and check.


Bill

If you do then let me know from whence it came. All that I have seen are the hatch, one circular porthole, and the periscope door. And the roll thrusters of course.

jharding58
09-08-2010, 08:44 PM
Trivia question time.

Deke Slayton was scheduled to make an orbital flight after John Glenn, but was grounded due to a heart problem. Had he been able to fly, what nickname would his capsule bear?

As I understand it, each astronaut was permitted to pick his own nickname, so I doubt that Slayton named the ship Aurora and Carpenter chose to keep it.


Bill

An interesting question. I did read somewhere that his MA-7 was going to be Delta 7.

Here is one for you, what would Jerrie Cobb have called her flight?

Earl
09-08-2010, 09:11 PM
An interesting question. I did read somewhere that his MA-7 was going to be Delta 7.

Here is one for you, what would Jerrie Cobb have called her flight?

Yep, Delta 7.

Another trivia question: There was a push to fly a day-long Mercury mission (and there was a capsule for it) after Cooper finished the 'last' Mercury mission.

Which astro was pushing for the flight and wanted desparately to fly it (one and the same person)? He (they) even went 'over' Administrator Webb's head to JFK to try to get it approved....but JFK tossed it back to Webb for his approval (Webb said 'no'.....the program would end with Cooper's flight as intended).

Webb was no big fan of this particular astro basically from that point forward (and possibly even predating that event), since Webb felt like the astros were (or had) been using their 'star' power (no pun intended) a bit more than he liked.


Earl

GregGleason
09-08-2010, 09:14 PM
Is there an easier way to convert the capsule to a Freedom 7 other than what Ralph did (replace the window with part of the capsule cut from a second kit) ?

Maybe make a mold to cast a thin skin to cover the window?

Oops -- gotta go -- the tornado sirens just went off...


Bill

That's what I would do. Cast an area at an appropriate side.

You know what we really need are some hyper scale Mercury/Escape Tower kits for the #2167 kit, and one for a 2.60" airframe. Now that would be sweet. I would be all over that.

http://www.mercuryspacecraft.com/w/images/thumb/4/4a/GHF.Escape_Tower_Detail_2.jpg/180px-GHF.Escape_Tower_Detail_2.jpg


Greg

GregGleason
09-08-2010, 09:21 PM
Yep, Delta 7.

Another trivia question: There was a push to fly a day-long Mercury mission (and there was a capsule for it) after Cooper finished the 'last' Mercury mission.

Which astro was pushing for the flight and wanted desparately to fly it (one and the same person)? He (they) even went 'over' Administrator Webb's head to JFK to try to get it approved....but JFK tossed it back to Webb for his approval (Webb said 'no'.....the program would end with Cooper's flight as intended).

Webb was no big fan of this particular astro basically from that point forward (and possibly even predating that event), since Webb felt like the astros were (or had) been using their 'star' power (no pun intended) a bit more than he liked.


Earl

I read about this somewhere...

Was that Shepherd?

Greg

Doug Sams
09-08-2010, 09:38 PM
I do not have the kit in front of me, but I seem to recall that the capsule has the window instead of the porthole as it is the same part used on the Mercury-Atlas kits.
http://www.doug79.com/merc-red/capsule2.jpg

Let's do some brainstorming here. With the collective expertise of this group, we ought to be able to pick this thing apart :)

I've numbered the seams 1 to 18. The highlighted object on line 18 is the window, right?

I've no idea what the thing is spanning seams 2-4.

Seam 7 strikes me as being an abrupt, incongruous seam. It may be that the molds were getting old, but it almost looks like these two sections weren't meant to be next to each other (of the three sections glued to together). I'm sure that's not the case, but when I look at that line (7), it just doesn't look right. For example, the (vertical) rivet line is missing (as shown below) but it's there on the other side of the hatch/panel.

I take it that's the hatch spanning lines 7-11?

We have seemingly identical objects spanning seams 11-13 as on 2-4. So they're symmetrical. But I don't know what they are.

Seam 13 has a round opening. Is this for the periscope? Or is this the window and the object at seams 17-18 (far left above) is the periscope opening?

(The one major paradigm shift that I've undergone is coming to understand the window is not in the hatch. I always assumed that's where it was.)

So, there it is. Have at it! :)

Doug

http://www.doug79.com/merc-red/no-rivets-p.jpg

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GregGleason
09-08-2010, 10:23 PM
Maybe this link will help:

http://ninfinger.org/models/mercury/mercury_dwgs.html

Greg

Doug Sams
09-08-2010, 10:42 PM
Don't know if it has been mentioned but there is a problem with the Centuri/Estes Mercury capsule in that the number of panels of corrugations is less than the number on the real vehicle. I don't have it in front of me, but there are 16 or 18 panels on the model, vs 24 for the real. Or maybe it's 12 vs 18, but anyway, it is something like that.Greg's link above (http://ninfinger.org/models/mercury/mercury_dwgs.html) clarifies that - it's 18 on the kit versus 24 on the real thing.

This pic shows 24, too, but this is a movie prop, so that could open a whole new can o' worms :)
http://www.doug79.com/merc-red/capsule-movie-prop2p.jpg

Doug

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jharding58
09-09-2010, 11:34 AM
On the kit capsule there are only "bolts" on the upper and lower lip of the hatch.

The porthole is the round molding on seam 13. There should be two for MR-3, the other would have been around seam 6. This is where the window would also be located.

The objects on seam 3 and close to seam 11 are the roll thrusters.

The object between seam 17 and 18 is the periscope door.

jharding58
09-09-2010, 11:40 AM
But again, I don't want a re-tooling, just a re-release.

Doug Sams
09-09-2010, 11:46 AM
On the kit capsule there are only "bolts" on the upper and lower lip of the hatch.

The porthole is the round molding on seam 13. There should be two for MR-3, the other would have been around seam 6. This is where the window would also be located.

The objects on seam 3 and close to seam 11 are the roll thrusters.

The object between seam 17 and 18 is the periscope door.Great input.

I saw two portholes on the Freedom 7 capsule at the ninfinger link Greg cited. I was wondering about those, so I'm glad to see it confirmed.

Also, with the symmetry, I suspected those were roll thrusters at 3 and 11. Thanks for confirming that, too.

From your pics, the one with the small hatch open, is that the periscope hatch? To use it, the door is opened in space?

Doug

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jharding58
09-09-2010, 11:52 AM
Yep. The hatch is over the periscope. There are also umbilical connections under this door. The image is of Liberty Bell 7 after she was raised. Routinely the periscope was automatically retracted prior to de-orbit so I guess either Gus had it out during the parachute descent or the mechanism failed while she was on the bottom and it popped out.

Doug Sams
09-09-2010, 12:19 PM
The porthole is the round molding on seam 13. There should be two for MR-3, the other would have been around seam 6. This is where the window would also be located.What were the portholes used for? That is, were they windows? If the astronauts already had one porthole, I'm surprised they made such a big deal out of getting a window (as depicted in The Right Stuff). Or was the improvement in visibility so important as to justify the protest?

To sum up the windows thing:
1. There was always a periscope with a small hatch.
2. The capsule started with one porthole, then a second was added on the opposite side next to the main hatch, then that porthole was later replaced with a window in the same position.

Doug

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Doug Sams
09-09-2010, 12:23 PM
On the kit capsule there are only "bolts" on the upper and lower lip of the hatch.One thing that sticks out for me on this capsule is the oversizing of the main hatch. But I think I know why. In the real thing, the main hatch spans four sections. In the model, it does as well, but since the sections are wider (18@20° each versus 24@15° for the real thing), it makes the hatch wider.

Doug

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jharding58
09-09-2010, 12:28 PM
What were the portholes used for? That is, were they windows? If the astronauts already had one porthole, I'm surprised they made such a big deal out of getting a window (as depicted in The Right Stuff). Or was the improvement in visibility so important as to justify the protest?

To sum up the windows thing:
1. There was always a periscope with a small hatch.
2. The capsule started with one porthole, then a second was added on the opposite side next to the main hatch, then that porthole was later replaced with a window in the same position.

Doug

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The porthole(s) were only on Shepards flight. From MR-4 on the window was installed. Apart from the view, the window was intended to provide head out of the cockpit for manoeuvre during orbit.

The 3D modeling guys have it easy. They do not need to physically fabricate anything and can play with their structures all day.

http://www.jrbassett.com/images/MerFre4.JPG

Bill
09-11-2010, 11:39 PM
An interesting question. I did read somewhere that his MA-7 was going to be Delta 7.

Here is one for you, what would Jerrie Cobb have called her flight?


Equality 13?

She fought hard to become an astronaut, but was refused because she was female. She was among 13 women who took some of the screening tests as the Mercury 7 men.


Bill

Bill
09-11-2010, 11:47 PM
If you do then let me know from whence it came. All that I have seen are the hatch, one circular porthole, and the periscope door. And the roll thrusters of course.


My Liberty Bell kit 2167 has the same capsule without a window you guys are describing. I must have had it confused with the Revell 1/24th which has a window.

I do not know why the presence or absence of the window bothers me so much, yet the larger hatch or the 18 rather than 24 seams does not. None of this can be seen from 15 feet away.


Bill

GregGleason
09-12-2010, 01:25 PM
The porthole(s) were only on Shepards flight. From MR-4 on the window was installed. Apart from the view, the window was intended to provide head out of the cockpit for manoeuvre during orbit.

The 3D modeling guys have it easy. They do not need to physically fabricate anything and can play with their structures all day.

http://www.jrbassett.com/images/MerFre4.JPG

Thanks for that link. I was able to import his file into some 3D software and I was able to make some pics based on Mr. Basset's model. :)

Greg

dlazarus6660
09-17-2010, 02:12 PM
Anyone have a spare Mecury Launch Escape Tower for my Estes MR-7.
I know I may end up making one but it would be great to get one and glue it on.

jharding58
09-17-2010, 04:51 PM
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None of this can be seen from 15 feet away.


Bill

Truer words are seldom spoken.

jharding58
09-17-2010, 04:53 PM
Thanks for that link. I was able to import his file into some 3D software and I was able to make some pics based on Mr. Basset's model. :)

Greg

What might be nice is to get his wireframe and cadge some time on a rapid prototyping table. You might not get the tower but you could get a capsule.