Ye Olde Rocket Forum - ESTES SATURN V Kit

dyaugo

12-20-2010, 10:29 PM

Has anyone built one of the new 1/100th scale ESTES Saturn V kits?

I know they hit the market a few months ago, but I never picked one up yet, because I have too much on my build plate already. I think the kit calls for one 24mm motor, but I think a cluster configuration would look cool..if anyone has built it into a cluster, what did you go with?

I think it would give it a more realistic flight?

Bill

12-20-2010, 11:07 PM

I think the kit calls for one 24mm motor, but I think a cluster configuration would look cool..if anyone has built it into a cluster, what did you go with?

I think it would give it a more realistic flight?

The new kit does not come with an option of a motor cluster. In the past, you had a choice of one D13 or three 18mm motors. A cluster of five motors would be the most realistic, obviously.

Bill

dyaugo

12-20-2010, 11:31 PM

The new kit does not come with an option of a motor cluster. In the past, you had a choice of one D13 or three 18mm motors. A cluster of five motors would be the most realistic, obviously.

Bill

Bill

What are the options for the cluster on the new kit? 4x18mm? I agree a 5 engine cluster would be the best way to go.

Randy

12-21-2010, 06:59 AM

tbzep

12-21-2010, 09:03 AM

My son is putting decals on his during Christmas break. He built it with an interchangeable mount so that it can be flown with a single D12-3 or a cluster. He built his SEMROC Saturn 1B the same way. It has flown with single, triple, and quad motor combinations.

jamjammer53150

12-21-2010, 09:06 AM

I built mine with a removable core , so currently I have a cluster of 1 24 and 4 18 motor mounts
I also built a 29mm core for it as well .

Could someone please scan and PDF the cardstock transition for me . I hosed mine and need to re make it ( the upper one )

Bravo52

12-21-2010, 06:07 PM

I built mine per the instructions and it is right at 12 ozs. I might consider flying it on a D12-3 but...it's set up for RMS motors.

I'm sure the resident "authority" on Estes Saturn V motor selection will pipe in soon and give you the correct answer, but most of us mere mortals just guess...

Bottom line...build it how you want. Weight is the only issue. Clusters are cool.

UCBadger

01-05-2011, 06:34 PM

Besides the Estes D12-3, can anybody recommend an Aerotech single use motor for the Saturn V and Saturn 1B that can be used if "stock" built? (Still have not started my 1B................ :o )

rosko_racer

01-05-2011, 06:48 PM

...Bottom line...build it how you want. Weight is the only issue. Clusters are cool.

Yeap, clusters are cool and when it comes to the SATURN V, it has to be a cluster. I am presently building mine and did go with a 24mm core and 18mm on the rest. Still debating on the internal launch lug... Notes and pictures here (http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showpost.php?p=108770&postcount=7).

Bill

01-05-2011, 06:48 PM

Besides the Estes D12-3, can anybody recommend an Aerotech single use motor for the Saturn V and Saturn 1B that can be used if "stock" built? (Still have not started my 1B................ :o )

I would not recommend a D12-3. From the teach a man to fish department, it is good to see what the experiences of others are http://www.rocketreviews.com/reviews/all/oop_est_saturn_v.shtml

Bill

jharding58

01-05-2011, 07:00 PM

Yep. Put the thrust ring in E territory and use a long hook. If you want to try a standard D motor you can always use a 1" spacer.

UCBadger

01-05-2011, 07:37 PM

I would not recommend a D12-3. From the teach a man to fish department, it is good to see what the experiences of others are http://www.rocketreviews.com/reviews/all/oop_est_saturn_v.shtml

Yep. Put the thrust ring in E territory and use a long hook. If you want to try a standard D motor you can always use a 1" spacer.
Bill and jharging58.........That was kind of the point of my question. If I am reading things correctly several folks have used an Aerotech E15-4W single use motor very successfully. Please forgive me, but I am a bit confused here.....the Aerotech E15-4 motor is 2.75 inches long, the same as the Estes D12-3 right? (The Estes E engine is longer, but I think I have been warned _never_ to use the Estes E engines in these rockets.) So a stock build (for D power) of the Estes Saturn V and/or the Semroc Saturn IB should be all set to use the E15-4 single use motors from Aerotech, right?

jharding58

01-05-2011, 08:06 PM

The problem with using a thrust ring at 2.75" in a 24mm tube is that you limit your options. If you use a 3.75" placement of the ring in the stock 24mm tube then you can use both E motors in the 3.75 casing, as well as E motors in the 2.75 casing. As for never using an E - well, there are opinions.

The thing is that you can use the kit parts and simply add a 3.75" hook to provide the greatest options in 24mm casings.

An observation - if you have not yet assembled the capsule; purchase the 1/100 BPC from Sirius rocketry and the 1/100 service module decal from Sandman. Then your Apollo capsule and LES will look a lot more prototypical.

UCBadger

01-05-2011, 08:19 PM

That was the Estes E9 that I (we) were warned against. What is your view?

If I build stock with the "D" motor mount, can you tell me what choices I will have? Thanks if you can, OK if you can't.

Curtis

Bill

01-05-2011, 08:37 PM

Bill and jharging58.........That was kind of the point of my question. If I am reading things correctly several folks have used an Aerotech E15-4W single use motor very successfully. Please forgive me, but I am a bit confused here.....the Aerotech E15-4 motor is 2.75 inches long, the same as the Estes D12-3 right? (The Estes E engine is longer, but I think I have been warned _never_ to use the Estes E engines in these rockets.) So a stock build (for D power) of the Estes Saturn V and/or the Semroc Saturn IB should be all set to use the E15-4 single use motors from Aerotech, right?

Right and right.

I recommended against a single D12-3 because it will only get you up about 100 feet - not much time for the parachutes to open on an expensive rocket, both in purchase price and build time. An Estes E9 is a disaster in a Saturn V because even though it has more total impulse than the D12, it does so at a lower thrust (for a much longer burn.) Your rocket will not be going fast enough to be stable when it leaves the launch rod.

Confusing, I know, but you will soon become familar with motor thrust curves.

If you build the mount for 2.75" motors, you will have ample choices in AeroTech motors, both single-use and reloadable. But an "E" mount will allow you to also use the longer motors AeroTech is now selling.

Bill

UCBadger

01-05-2011, 09:04 PM

Thanks for the info and the suggestions. :)

jharding58

01-05-2011, 09:43 PM

BTW - this model has also been flown on the E-18. If you want to go that route you may want to consider using epoxy on the thrust ring and doubling them. Belt and Braces sort of thing.

UCBadger

01-05-2011, 09:58 PM

papated343

01-06-2011, 09:48 AM

Well, I guess that brings us back to my original question. What motors can I use (Other than the Estes D12-3) in either the V or the IB without changing the build (much...I am OK with using the 3.75 in motor mount)? I want successful flights, keeping the thing in sight and whole.

It sounds like we're in the same boat. I posted yesterday about the Aerotech E's (15, 20, & 30) in single configuration. According to the curves and sim data, it should push the Saturn V to just under 500', which is what my ceiling is due to my field. My question was regarding recovery charge delay times based on the coast time projections. The other advantages I saw was these motors were fairly affordable and won't require too many modifications.

GregGleason

01-06-2011, 12:27 PM

... An observation - if you have not yet assembled the capsule; purchase the 1/100 BPC from Sirius rocketry and the 1/100 service module decal from Sandman. Then your Apollo capsule and LES will look a lot more prototypical.

Thanks for the tip.

It's interesting to note how much the Apollo 11 CSM changed from pre-launch prep to launch.

Greg

MarkB.

01-06-2011, 05:36 PM

Am I missing something? It looks like all they did was take off the plastic shipping covers from the radiators and the RCS.

ghrocketman

01-06-2011, 10:07 PM

I would not fly an Estes Saturn V or Semroc Saturn 1B on ANY D12.
The flight can ONLY be accurately described as DISMAL.
I never fly mine on less than the E18 RMS (E15 SU) and usually on the F24.
My new Estes Saturn V is getting the 29mm Commonwealth 29mm upgrade kit.
Mount will allow one to easily use through the 29/240 high power cases, but doubt it will ever get more than a H128.

GregGleason

01-06-2011, 11:19 PM

Am I missing something? It looks like all they did was take off the plastic shipping covers from the radiators and the RCS.

I was coming from the perspective that while on the pad, the Saturn V just needed to fueled and she's "good to go". Obviously, that's not the case. But the CSM is not the only place that got protection. The Q-ball cover at the tip of the LES (pulled moments before liftoff), nozzle covers for the escape motors, an access area taped on the LEM shroud. Which leads me to another question: who was the poor guy removing all of the protection some 30+ stories up? :eek:

Greg

Bravo52

01-07-2011, 11:48 AM

The time stamp on these pictures is a little suspect in that it is hard to tell how long it is between the two shots. I suspect it is quite some time (don't have time to research it) because I am positive the support gantry is long gone before the rocket is ready for launch. That said, it'd be hard to say when they pull the RCS covers and what not.