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View Full Version : Estes Gemini Titan on Ebay....over $300?


Earl
04-09-2011, 01:14 AM
Admittedly, I'm not as avid an Estes kit collector as I am Centuri, but I find myself scratching my head when I see this kit come up on ebay and draw this level of attention.

This kit was from the mid-to-latter 80s originally, right? I have one I got as a freebie from Estes in the late 80's....I opened it at the time and did not find anything super-interesting in the kit itself. Not bad of course, just not sure what the draw is on this kit to bring in this kind of bidding.

Can someone enlighten those of us who may be somewhat insensitive to the exact collector's draw on this kit? Here's the current link on this one...it's a bit over $300 right now with something like 33 bidders:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Estes-1978-Gemini-Titan-Model-Rocket-MISP-/120706977871?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1ab2504f


Thanks,

Earl

Earl
04-09-2011, 08:28 PM
Still sitting at just over $300.

Again, anyone able to offer suggestions as to why such popularity/value of this particular kit?

As mentioned in my original post, I'm a bit in the dark as to why this kit seems to garner such bids, especially the range this one is bringing in.


Thanks,

Earl

mojo1986
04-10-2011, 07:13 AM
That price is definitely on the high side of the range........................

23/03/2004 Estes #1978 Gemini-Titan $183.50
25/04/2004 Estes #1978 Gemini-Titan $124.50
17/05/2004 Estes #1978 Gemini-Titan $81.50
10/06/2004 Estes #1978 Gemini-Titan $122.50
20/07/2004 Estes #1978 Gemini-Titan $302.00
24/07/2004 Estes #1978 Gemini-Titan $230.00
29/07/2004 Estes #1978 Gemini-Titan $107.50
23/08/2004 Estes #1978 Gemini-Titan $89.52
02/09/2004 Estes #1978 Gemini-Titan $108.00
12/09/2004 Estes #1978 Gemini-Titan $87.00
30/10/2004 Estes #1978 Gemini-Titan $95.00
12/12/2004 Estes #1978 Gemini-Titan $84.50
13/03/2005 Estes #1978 Gemini-Titan $131.00
06/04/2005 Estes #1978 Gemini-Titan $123.49
15/04/2005 Estes #1978 Gemini-Titan $59.99
29/05/2005 Estes #1978 Gemini-Titan $112.87
12/06/2005 Estes #1978 Gemini-Titan $63.57
26/10/2005 Estes #1978 Gemini-Titan $67.55

Personally, I think $60 (the lowest selling price in the range) is plenty to pay for the kit. Doubtless a couple of newbies smashing heads together. It's possible that one or more of the bidders has this confused with the much scarcer K-21 kit.

Joe

Earl
04-10-2011, 08:19 AM
Yeah, it just seems a bit strange this kit even has the price history there you listed.

I mean, to each his own....I've paid some high prices sometimes for some rather generic kits just because they were a personal favorite or something, but there are really no attributes to this kit that I can see that would put it into the $100+ range on a routine basis. Some of these prices are running into 1/45th Little Joe II range, and this kit certainly isn't in that range of quality.

So....I'm still trying to figure out the exact 'draw' to is kit. Thanks for the auction history.....that's interesting.


Earl

jharding58
04-10-2011, 09:22 AM
CCBW - Collector Craziness Bidding War. A little too much testosterone in the mix.

ghrocketman
04-10-2011, 12:05 PM
I can barely see the original K21 from the 60's/early 70's going for this let alone that kit which was a piece of junk compared to the K21 and not that scarce

Earl
04-10-2011, 04:33 PM
I can barely see the original K21 from the 60's/early 70's going for this let alone that kit which was a piece of junk compared to the K21 and not that scarce

Well, that's my point. I'm not gonna 'bash' anyone for their kit preferences....that's not my quest here. I'm just trying to understand why a somewhat lackluster kit as this seems to garner such interest when it comes up for bids.


Earl

jharding58
04-10-2011, 06:13 PM
Well, that's my point. I'm not gonna 'bash' anyone for their kit preferences....that's not my quest here. I'm just trying to understand why a somewhat lackluster kit as this seems to garner such interest when it comes up for bids.


Earl

Not the kit. It is the bidders. As in most auctions there comes a point when the bidders lose sight of the value of the item and instead focus on their personal value in winning.

BTW - it went for $356.99. Gonna skew the averages a little bit. Also the bidder at$250.00 tried to snipe it.

Ltvscout
04-10-2011, 06:29 PM
Not the kit. It is the bidders. As in most auctions there comes a point when the bidders lose sight of the value of the item and instead focus on their personal value in winning.

BTW - it went for $356.99. Gonna skew the averages a little bit. Also the bidder at$250.00 tried to snipe it.
In the good old days when you could see the bidders, you could email the losing bidder and offer him one of your own kits at a few dollars less than his losing bid and still make a killing.

Earl
04-10-2011, 07:29 PM
Not the kit. It is the bidders. As in most auctions there comes a point when the bidders lose sight of the value of the item and instead focus on their personal value in winning.

BTW - it went for $356.99. Gonna skew the averages a little bit. Also the bidder at$250.00 tried to snipe it.

I understand the 'just want to win it' angle.....but that does not explain the values this kit seems to pull in nearly EVERY time it comes up. It's really strange.

One typically doesn't see too many latter-era Estes kits go for the numbers this one seems to bring in over and over. "The Hunger of The Fight" might explain an occasional high selling price, but this one seems to hit high numbers almost every time one is listed. There's gotta be some kind of 'extra' something about this kit, but danged if I know what it is. Maybe there's like a VERY small group of 2-3 "Latter Era Estes Gemini-Titan Kit Collectors" that are trying (for some strange reason) to out-do each other in the quanity of these kits they can collect.

Whatever it is, it's kinda weird.

mojo1986
04-10-2011, 10:20 PM
Just thought you might like to see similar data for the REAL collector's kit..................

28/05/2005 Estes #K-21 (#1221) Gemini-Titan $181.28 green skill level kit
04/04/2007 Estes #K-21 (#1221) Gemini-Titan $154.51 green skill level kit
12/05/2009 Estes #K-21 (#1221) Gemini-Titan $272.00 green skill level kit

03/09/2004 Estes #K-21 Gemini-Titan $177.50 yellow double oval hang tag
23/03/2008 Estes #K-21 Gemini-Titan $169.37 countdown hangtag
15/03/2009 Estes #K-21 Gemini-Titan $257.00 yellow pre-Damon hangtag

Joe

Earl
04-10-2011, 11:33 PM
Just thought you might like to see similar data for the REAL collector's kit..................

28/05/2005 Estes #K-21 (#1221) Gemini-Titan $181.28 green skill level kit
04/04/2007 Estes #K-21 (#1221) Gemini-Titan $154.51 green skill level kit
12/05/2009 Estes #K-21 (#1221) Gemini-Titan $272.00 green skill level kit

03/09/2004 Estes #K-21 Gemini-Titan $177.50 yellow double oval hang tag
23/03/2008 Estes #K-21 Gemini-Titan $169.37 countdown hangtag
15/03/2009 Estes #K-21 Gemini-Titan $257.00 yellow pre-Damon hangtag

Joe

Thanks for those data points. I can see those prices for the older version of the Estes G-T kit. I just can't understand the more recent release going for even MORE than any of those listed above. Like I said, it's strange.

If anyone out there has a special passion for the latter version of this kit, can you share with us the particular 'draw' to this kit? Again, not criticizing.....we all have our special interests and passions. I'm just tryin' to understand what is so special about the kit.

I guess I shouldn't question it too much; just get the one I've got (and have no interest in) and put it out for someone else to enjoy.

Earl

ghrocketman
04-10-2011, 11:38 PM
The K21 (1221) based on the BT-70 is a far better kit than the later BT-60 based twist-lok clear fin mess that any 8 year old could build.
The K-21 was around for a longer period of years, but I would venture to guess far fewer still exist in kit form.
The newer one was only produced for 2 years from 1987 to 1988 and the older one was around from I think 1966 to 1973 for 7 years.
The newer one pops up on ebay FAR more often than the K21 does.
Don't understand why anone would pay even $50 for the newer one. As a kit, it stinks and for collectibility it does not appear to be rare. Paying $356.00 for one makes about as much sense as paying $100 for any variant of the Mosquito kit...NONE. The phrase "A fool and his money is soon parted" comes to mind.
Whoever sold that kit for that price is laughing the whole way to the bank.

VERY FEW Estes/Centuri kits should come even close to approaching that sort of price based on rarity.
The few that do include:
Centuri 1/45 scale Little Joe II
Estes K29 Uprated Saturn 1 (not the revised K29 Saturn 1B kit)
Boxed Enerjet Athena
Boxed Enerjet Aero Dart
Enerjet 2250
Enerjet 2650
Estes Green Skill-level hang tag K21 Gemini Titan (produced 1973 only)
Estes Green Skill-level hang tag Astron Trident (produced 1973 only)
Estes Pink Skill-level hang tag Astron Cobra (produced 1973 only)
Estes Green Skill-level hang tag Astron Sky Dart (1973 to 1977 production)
Estes Green Skill-level hang tag Astron Nighthawk (produced 1973 only)

dbrent
04-12-2011, 09:49 AM
Another Kit that is starting to bring in consistently higher numbers is the Estes Mercury Atlas... They routinely went for $50-$80 for awhile, but the last unopened one that I saw sold for around $167.00. Then one that was opened and started went for $110.00... Crazy!

kevinj
04-12-2011, 10:09 AM
The smaller GT was only around for 2 years. It has unique plastic parts that were not used on other kits. You can clone the K-21 easily. All those things make collectors see the value of this kit differently than folks who buy kits to build and fly.

That being said, I think it's a high price and I personally wouldn't pay it. But then I'm not a collector and what folks want to spend their money on is their business.

kj

ghrocketman
04-12-2011, 11:15 AM
I would not be surprised if more of the later BT60 based Gemini-Titan kits were produced in the two years it existed than the 7 years the original K21 did, which would make the collectible value lower anyway.
I know the newer one shows up on ebay FAR more often than the early one.

Cohetero-negro
04-19-2011, 09:45 AM
Just thought you might like to see similar data for the REAL collector's kit..................

28/05/2005 Estes #K-21 (#1221) Gemini-Titan $181.28 green skill level kit
04/04/2007 Estes #K-21 (#1221) Gemini-Titan $154.51 green skill level kit
12/05/2009 Estes #K-21 (#1221) Gemini-Titan $272.00 green skill level kit

03/09/2004 Estes #K-21 Gemini-Titan $177.50 yellow double oval hang tag
23/03/2008 Estes #K-21 Gemini-Titan $169.37 countdown hangtag
15/03/2009 Estes #K-21 Gemini-Titan $257.00 yellow pre-Damon hangtag

Joe

Joe,

Thank my wallet and luck for getting the Pimp Daddy Rocketry (PDR) Clones for under $50.00 each! Too bad he (father and Son company) went under as they had some nice clones!

I just wonder why they came up with a name like PDR ... what is this father and son team doing in their spare time?!? :eek:

J

P.s. You are missing an entry for a K-21 in 'line drawn' instructions with hang tag -less mylar bag ... that sold for $400.00 a little over 4 years ago.

jharding58
04-19-2011, 10:22 AM
You can get the parts from Semroc for about $20.00 absent the clear fin material. I use map tube and clear sheet from Sig manufacturing. The decals are $12.00 from Excelsior; with the nice touch of all the Gemini Titan serial numbers on the sheet. Instructions and updated patterns (prevents the bells from smooshing) are on the web, as well as the paper model wraps for the capsule. It is about as popular as it gets with the RTF crowd.

As for the BT-60 GT the fin set was also used in the Estes MX (1916) - just not the display nozzles. That model always struck me as a potential for skill level 1. Just produce the tube with a pre-printed wrap and you were 95% there.

If you want to go clone route the NC is on Semroc and the decals are probably available from Sandman - just give him a minute or two.

Cohetero-negro
04-19-2011, 10:32 AM
You can get the parts from Semroc for about $20.00 absent the clear fin material. I use map tube and clear sheet from Sig manufacturing. The decals are $12.00 from Excelsior; with the nice touch of all the Gemini Titan serial numbers on the sheet. Instructions and updated patterns (prevents the bells from smooshing) are on the web, as well as the paper model wraps for the capsule. It is about as popular as it gets with the RTF crowd.

As for the BT-60 GT the fin set was also used in the Estes MX (1916) - just not the display nozzles. That model always struck me as a potential for skill level 1. Just produce the tube with a pre-printed wrap and you were 95% there.

If you want to go clone route the NC is on Semroc and the decals are probably available from Sandman - just give him a minute or two.


J,

Which versions of the GT's are in your photo?

Jonathan

jharding58
04-19-2011, 10:55 AM
These are clones based on the K-21 release with parts as described..

Ltvscout
04-22-2011, 05:21 PM
Talk about ridiculous money. Look at what this built 1B is going for!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120712506287&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123

jharding58
04-22-2011, 05:39 PM
Wow. I've really been building them cheap...

Earl
04-22-2011, 06:23 PM
Talk about ridiculous money. Look at what this built 1B is going for!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120712506287&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123


That's amazing. I wonder who the clientele is for built rockets in this price range? One would be attempted to conclude that a 'builder' hobbiest would defer to spend that kind of money on a 'kit' to build on their own. Additionally, one might assume that those not interested in the hobby wouldn't want to spend anywhere near that on a model for ANY reason.

As I've stated before in other threads, I'm not criticizing folks about what they spend their money on....it's their money and they are free to spend it as they wish. Just trying to understand the exact motivation.

Earl

Gus
04-23-2011, 11:01 AM
Talk about ridiculous money. Look at what this built 1B is going for!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120712506287&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123
That was sold by the same person who sold the Gemini Titan!

Looking through the completed items this person is selling off a truly amazing collection of space memorablia from someone who appears to have been a NASA employee at Goddard. The flyable model rockets look to be a small part of the collection.

Some incredible stuff there, including an operations manual for shuttle crashes.

Earl
04-23-2011, 06:28 PM
I was digging a Centuri kit out of one of my older storage boxes and I came across the Estes G-T kit (#1978) I had, which I received as a freebie from an Estes order back around '87 or so, I think.

I opened the kit at the time (not sure why) and looked the parts over then rebagged it. It's been in the storage box ever since.

Here's some photos of the kit contents. I guess that plastic Gemini capsule nosecone would be 'specific' to this kit (and of course the decal sheet), but that would appear to be about it. Seems that clear fin unit was used on another Estes kit maybe (MX missle I think someone else suggested), but not positive about that.

All-in-all, not a bad kit (as I mentioned in my original post), but I guess I'd personally be hard-pressed to toss down $300 for this kit.

Earl

Chas Russell
04-23-2011, 06:36 PM
I have an unopened one of those kits. I also have a Moldin' Oldies by Sirius Rocketry kit capsule for a future project. Problem is too many future projects...

Chas

ghrocketman
04-23-2011, 07:17 PM
The fin unit for the #1978 Gemini Titan kit was also used for the MX Missile kit and the Titan II Missile kit. The twin engine bells from the Titan II kit were used for the GT kit for display as well. The MX missile kit had a single-bell display nozzle and was unique to that kit.

The clear plastic fin unit used in these three kits is WOEFULLY fragile and is known to snap fins at the root. If you build any of these three kits, PITCH into the TRASH the dismally inadequate 12" chute and replace with a quality 18" chute. If you do not, fins WILL break on anything but the gentlest of landings in no wind on soft ground.

Makes one wonder who decided chute sizes at Estes...those three kits all weigh more than DOUBLE the weight of a Cherokee-D, which Estes RETARDEDLY decided needed a 18" chute where a 12" is almost overkill.

Incidentally, Estes later molded this same twist-lok fin unit in black for some other later kit that I cannot recall.

Earl
04-23-2011, 07:41 PM
Yeah, on chute sizes I guess they (the manufacturers) balance between the customer recovering the rocket within a reasonable distance; what's adequate to protect the model from landing damage; and material costs.

In general though, it's been my feeling over the years that chutes supplied with kits have tended to be too small. If launch conditions allow (field size, winds) I have in many cases tended to go with a larger chute size than that supplied with the kit.

But yes, looking at that plasic fin unit, I could see it would not survive too many hard landings at all. The plastic is thicker than that on the somewhat similar (but smaller) AstroCam fin unit, but I never had a broken fin on my original AstroCam back in the day and I put bunches of flights on that bird. The plastic on the GT fin unit, though thicker, seems more fragile for some reason.

Attached is a closeup of the engine bell set from the GT kit which I couldn't attach to the prior set of photos (ran out of space).

Earl

John Brohm
04-23-2011, 08:45 PM
...
Incidentally, Estes later molded this same twist-lok fin unit in black for some other later kit that I cannot recall.

The clear plastic BT-60 fin can unit was also included in kit #2054 Beta Launch Vehicle. The black unit you refer to was provided in kit #2070 Bail Out!

ghrocketman
04-23-2011, 09:48 PM
I never had a problem with busticated fins on any of my AstroCams; I'm pretty sure the material on the AstroCam fin unit was a different plastic than the material used for The GT, Titan II, and MX fins.
The Clear fins on the Titan sure were not as flexible as those used on the Astro Cam.

jeffyjeep
04-23-2011, 10:29 PM
Talk about ridiculous money. Look at what this built 1B is going for!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120712506287&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123

I've had a Semroc 1B build sell for much higher than that. Twice.

I've also sold them for lower than that.

The market can be funny. :rolleyes:

Bill
04-24-2011, 02:43 PM
But yes, looking at that plasic fin unit, I could see it would not survive too many hard landings at all. The plastic is thicker than that on the somewhat similar (but smaller) AstroCam fin unit, but I never had a broken fin on my original AstroCam back in the day and I put bunches of flights on that bird. The plastic on the GT fin unit, though thicker, seems more fragile for some reason.



I don't know what it is about the clear plastic material Estes uses that make it so brittle. Most of the Phantom kits I have seen in hobby shops have at least one broken fin.


Bill

mwtoelle
04-24-2011, 03:51 PM
I believe that the brittleness of transparent plastics has to do with the nature of the material. The transparent styrene plastics that I have seen over the years have all been brittle. The thinness of the the stuff used does not help with brittleness at all. The clear plastic tubing that Estes, Semroc, et al. have used is butyrate, IIRC.

Earl
04-24-2011, 04:30 PM
I believe that the brittleness of transparent plastics has to do with the nature of the material. The transparent styrene plastics that I have seen over the years have all been brittle. The thinness of the the stuff used does not help with brittleness at all. The clear plastic tubing that Estes, Semroc, et al. have used is butyrate, IIRC.

Yeah, it certainly seems to be a different type of plastic than say the typical styrene or such. I think the AstroCam black plastic fin unit was a more typical styrene (probably), and this clear plastic used on the G-T kit doesn't seem to be the same stuff.

mwtoelle
04-24-2011, 10:58 PM
The newer Gemini-Titan's fin unit is styrene. The fin unit was used on several other kits, including the Beta Launch Vehicle (2054) and Bailout (2070). The tabs on the fin unit could have a bit thicker. I have two clear units with a broken tab on them from normal landings. :(

The older Gemini-Titan (K-21) and Thor-Agena B (K-28) used butyrate plastic sheets for the DIY clear plastic fin unit. The real trick is finding clear fin material thin and strong enough to make really durable fins, compared to wood and opaque plastics.

Ltvscout
04-25-2011, 04:36 PM
Earl, I'll give you $300 for it!

:chuckle:

Earl
04-25-2011, 06:56 PM
Earl, I'll give you $300 for it!

:chuckle:


Looks like you may have to get in line! ;)

Seriously, I don't know what I'll do with it....toss it back into one of the kit storage containers I guess. I have way too many kits now with precious little time to build them. I have no particular attraction to the kit nor any real desire to build it. I'm more into the vintage Centuri builds, so I doubt I'd ever do anything with it.

But, according to the last one or two that have sold on ebay, that figure is in the ballpark, which I find so hard to believe for such a relatively simple kit. But, different kits appeal to different people, so to each his own.

I think Chas Russell mentioned above he had an unopened one, so that may be the 'collector's' kit to go after. :)

On a similar thought, do you have scans for this kit? I might could do that for you before I put it back away.

Jus' let me know.

Earl

sandman
04-25-2011, 07:10 PM
Not quite complete.

http://www.spacemodeling.org/JimZ/est1978.htm

Ltvscout
04-25-2011, 08:49 PM
Looks like you may have to get in line! ;)

Seriously, I don't know what I'll do with it....toss it back into one of the kit storage containers I guess. I have way too many kits now with precious little time to build them. I have no particular attraction to the kit nor any real desire to build it. I'm more into the vintage Centuri builds, so I doubt I'd ever do anything with it.

But, according to the last one or two that have sold on ebay, that figure is in the ballpark, which I find so hard to believe for such a relatively simple kit. But, different kits appeal to different people, so to each his own.

I think Chas Russell mentioned above he had an unopened one, so that may be the 'collector's' kit to go after. :)

On a similar thought, do you have scans for this kit? I might could do that for you before I put it back away.
I was of course being facetious. ;) It's barely worth 1/5th of that. I already have a couple of these MIB, so no need for any extras. :D

I have these plans online here along with the decals:

http://www.oldrocketplans.com/estes/est1978/est1978.htm

But, I do need a scan of the header card and of the templates. Maybe you could trace a fin on a piece of paper and scan that as well.

Thanks, Earl.

Earl
04-25-2011, 11:26 PM
I was of course being facetious. ;)

But, I do need a scan of the header card and of the templates. Maybe you could trace a fin on a piece of paper and scan that as well.

Thanks, Earl.

Oh, I know....I was just tossin' a bit of the same back at ya there.

My initial head scratching over the values this kit was hitting on eBay was the reason I started this thread to begin with: I simply could not understand the interest it was garnering on eBay, so I posted here to see if maybe *I* was missing something about the attraction of this kit.

I'll see what I can do on the scans....I've got a fair amount of other stuff I could scan too when I can get the time to add to your 'vault'.

Now, if you want to see another 'flakey' one, check out the person on eBay who has an Estes Space Shuttle kit with a starting bid of $200 and a 'Buy It Now' of $500. THERE'S the bargain of the week right there! ;)

Ltvscout
04-26-2011, 07:45 AM
I'll see what I can do on the scans....I've got a fair amount of other stuff I could scan too when I can get the time to add to your 'vault'.
Any scans you're able to send would be greatly appreciated.

ghrocketman
04-26-2011, 08:59 AM
There are several #1284 Space Shuttles on ebay now with DOWN RIGHT IGNORANT starting pricing.
Most of these YAY-HOOS need to PUT DOWN THE CRACK PIPE and come back to reality.
Gold is up to $1500 an ounce, #1284 Space Shuttle (or any other OOP kit) pricing does NOT track the price of gold.

ghrocketman
04-26-2011, 01:40 PM
Based on what I am seeing for bids on those Space Shuttles, there are some real KOOK bidders too.
The lowest I saw was a bid of around $70.00 for one that had 5 days left.
I thought buyers that actually PAID that much at the end of an auction last year were nuts for that price.
They produced literally THOUSANDS of that kit, many of which are still unbuilt.
There were 3 versions- Green Header with Green Hang tag (think that was first two years of production only), Green header with Black hang Tag (most production was this version), and the newest packaged "masters series".

Cohetero-negro
04-26-2011, 01:57 PM
Based on what I am seeing for bids on those Space Shuttles, there are some real KOOK bidders too.
The lowest I saw was a bid of around $70.00 for one that had 5 days left.
I thought buyers that actually PAID that much at the end of an auction last year were nuts for that price.
They produced literally THOUSANDS of that kit, many of which are still unbuilt.
There were 3 versions- Green Header with Green Hang tag (think that was first two years of production only), Green header with Black hang Tag (most production was this version), and the newest packaged "masters series".

GH,

Please don't 'rock the boat' for those of us who are selling these items :D

I have 2-3 of those Estes Patriots, and a couple NCR Patriots ... and yes I will be letting them go for ANYTHING over $200.00!!! Did you see that Patriot that went for $370.00 in the final seconds of bidding!?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220771486507&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

or

http://tinyurl.com/3ljqb7j


Jonathan

ghrocketman
04-27-2011, 10:50 AM
I have two words in response to the ridiculously astronomic prices I have seen paid for kits (many of the kits which in a word, STINK) on ebay lately- LUNKHEADS and BUFFOONS !

jharding58
04-27-2011, 01:04 PM
"on ebay lately- IDIOTS and MORONS !"

Did the fire go out or cooler heads prevail? My personal opinion is that you had it right the first time. None of the models purchased will ever see flight, yet the price is so incredibly inflated by an artificial passion to possess. I have sniped a few buyers in the past, sniped by a few cents. But never get into the heady realms of burying an opposing buyer by $15-20. The point most of these buyers seem to reach it is all about "the investment" - is there a futures market on unassembled balsa and cardboard tube that I missed? I think it is the head rush of winning that takes priority. "Gas and Groceries be darned!, I am going to beat them on this one!"

ghrocketman
04-27-2011, 01:24 PM
I thought I was being maybe a bit too harsh and edited it to Lunkheads and Buffoons from idiots and morons. They were at least buying rockets, which gets one out of the lowest common denominator "reality tv" crowd, so I reasoned idiots and morons was a touch too harsh.

Cohetero-negro
04-27-2011, 02:34 PM
"on ebay lately- IDIOTS and MORONS !"

Did the fire go out or cooler heads prevail? My personal opinion is that you had it right the first time. None of the models purchased will ever see flight, yet the price is so incredibly inflated by an artificial passion to possess. I have sniped a few buyers in the past, sniped by a few cents. But never get into the heady realms of burying an opposing buyer by $15-20. The point most of these buyers seem to reach it is all about "the investment" - is there a futures market on unassembled balsa and cardboard tube that I missed? I think it is the head rush of winning that takes priority. "Gas and Groceries be darned!, I am going to beat them on this one!"


J,

Model rockets as an investment? PLEASE! :)

Next thing you know, some coin collector will start a website that tracks the week to week and month to month variations in the price of model rocket auctions! Like that will ever happen! LOL

Jonathan

Bill
04-27-2011, 03:56 PM
Model rockets as an investment? PLEASE! :)

Next thing you know, some coin collector will start a website that tracks the week to week and month to month variations in the price of model rocket auctions! Like that will ever happen! LOL



From the movie WarGames, "The only winning move is not to play."

Stop the insanity - buy Semroc.


Bill

Scott6060842
04-27-2011, 05:32 PM
I would believe some of the ridiculous buys are from new BAR's that don't know about Semroc, cloning, etc. I know I made a few bonehead buys early in my BARdom (before I got edumicated at YORF).

Our good friend CAP99 just sold an opened Aerobee 300 blue skill tag for eighty something bucks. (the pride of my meager fleet back in the day). I'm working on my Semroc clone and I don't remember exactly but am sure was under $15.

Cohetero-negro
04-28-2011, 07:26 AM
I would believe some of the ridiculous buys are from new BAR's that don't know about Semroc, cloning, etc. I know I made a few bonehead buys early in my BARdom (before I got edumicated at YORF).

Our good friend CAP99 just sold an opened Aerobee 300 blue skill tag for eighty something bucks. (the pride of my meager fleet back in the day). I'm working on my Semroc clone and I don't remember exactly but am sure was under $15.

Scott and YORF,

I think what it really boils down to is ego:

'Look at me ebay viewers, I can afford to throw money away and you can't!'

Its like people in the U.S. Government who are convinced there is no financial crisis because we can AFFORD [sic] to have high debt; its a sign that we are really a economically powerful country... there are many people in our government who are in denial and on drugs.

Same with ebay bidders. I too wonder about the bidding... and folks I have blown away PLENTY of coin over the last 20 years for model rocket related collectibles, but I do it with forethought.

I look at the following things:

1)How easy is it to clone the kit?

A Mars Lander is a much harder clone than a Gemini-Titan. Before Semroc came out with their clone, I could understand having to place down a few Ben Franklins for a mint sealed kit. But now I will not spend more than twice the going rate for the clone. As for the Gemini-Titan, I have clone kits from PDR and the parts are available from Semroc/Sandman.

2)How long was the kit produced and how many instances?

The Estes 4 motor Cluster Patriot, produced 3 years in the 1000's. There is STILL a healthy amount still out there sitting in garages, closets, storage rooms that are unbuilt. They are easy cloned: bms for the ply bulkheads and have Sandman make your decals or get them somewhere else. The components needed to make a clone should EASILY cost under $75.00 yet someone decided they needed the kit (opened bags as one could easily see in the ebay picture) for $370.00. Not a very smart financial move ... even if the kit is an 'INVESTMENT'. I have one mint/sealed that if anyone pays me $200, its sold! Not a very wise investment.

There was a seller selling [SEALED] Centuri and Estes outfits a couple of weeks ago on ebay for $40 and $50 dollars from the late 70's early 80's with motors inside ... now THAT is a wise investment.

3)How significant is the kit and will others collectors buy your kit months, years, decades down the line with the same financial zeal to spend at least what you spend for the kit?

Case in point, lets go back to the $370.00 Patriot purchase:

in 20 years, what is more likely to be an item that you can resell on the collector's market:

a)Estes Pro-Series Patriot

b)Centuri Buck Rogers sealed outfit

While the Patriot is nice, it is easily cloned and there is a real possibility of a future Estes/Matt Steele re-release. You can clone a Patriot for under $75.00 and that is a conservative value.

As for the Centuri Buck Rogers outfit ... well you can clone the rocket within but how many are going to clone the plastic and metal parts of the launchpad? Are you really going to press steel into a replica blast deflector or injection blow your own plastic launcher?

How do you clone 1970's Centuri model rocket motors? You see the Centuri instance is 'fixed in time'. You either have one or you don't. You can't run out and clone it like you can the Estes Patriot.

The Centuri Buck Rogers outfit also covers two-three collectible categories:

1)Buck Rogers
2)Model Rocketry
3)Sci-Fi

With all the remakes of movies, there is a chance that within our lifetimes we could see a Buck Rogers movie that will for a short time, drive the value of your Buck Rogers related item (personally I would love to see a Flash Gordon movie first and yes the 80's remake with Queen doing the music was nice, but I want a modern remake akin to the 1930's serials... what is the probability of a 'Patriot Missile Movie'? Slim to none.

If you are planning to buy and hold for decades, and you can't find a sucker or someone who just wants to show off that they have deeper pockets than the next guy, you are better off investing in the Buck Rogers item than the Patriot.

Lets see, the Patriot sold for $370 and the Buck Rogers outfit for $50.

The Buck Rogers outfit/kits were made for one year in 1979, the Patriot in the Estes form for 3 years and in the NCR form for 5 years IIRC. 8+ years of Patriots compared to 1 year of Buck Rogers ... well I am sure the $370 Patriot buyer had other motives than just showing off their deep pockets! :D

Sorry if I have over analyzed this one.

Jonathan

dlazarus6660
04-28-2011, 07:47 AM
Scott and YORF,

With all the remakes of movies, there is a chance that within our lifetimes we could see a Buck Rogers movie that will for a short time, drive the value of your Buck Rogers related item (personally I would love to see a Flash Gordon movie first and yes the 80's remake with Queen doing the music was nice, but I want a modern remake akin to the 1930's serials... what is the probability of a 'Patriot Missile Movie'? Slim to none.


Sorry if I have over analyzed this one.

Jonathan

Jonathan,

To bring you up to speed, There is a new Buck Rogers TV movie, "Buck Rogers Begins", yet to be released. You can YouTube it and you'll never guess who plays Bucks Mother and Father!

Enjoy!

Cohetero-negro
04-28-2011, 09:40 AM
Jonathan,

To bring you up to speed, There is a new Buck Rogers TV movie, "Buck Rogers Begins", yet to be released. You can YouTube it and you'll never guess who plays Bucks Mother and Father!

Enjoy!


Thank you!!!

Jonathan

jeffyjeep
04-28-2011, 06:24 PM
Jonathan,

To bring you up to speed, There is a new Buck Rogers TV movie, "Buck Rogers Begins", yet to be released. You can YouTube it and you'll never guess who plays Bucks Mother and Father!

Enjoy!
Um, Fred Rogers and Ginger Rogers? :D

ghrocketman
04-29-2011, 08:46 AM
Nope, Kenny Rogers and Aaron Rogers.

tbzep
04-29-2011, 09:02 AM
Roger, Roger. Give me a vector, Victor.

luke strawwalker
08-01-2011, 11:02 PM
The fin unit for the #1978 Gemini Titan kit was also used for the MX Missile kit and the Titan II Missile kit. The twin engine bells from the Titan II kit were used for the GT kit for display as well. The MX missile kit had a single-bell display nozzle and was unique to that kit.

The clear plastic fin unit used in these three kits is WOEFULLY fragile and is known to snap fins at the root. If you build any of these three kits, PITCH into the TRASH the dismally inadequate 12" chute and replace with a quality 18" chute. If you do not, fins WILL break on anything but the gentlest of landings in no wind on soft ground.

Makes one wonder who decided chute sizes at Estes...those three kits all weigh more than DOUBLE the weight of a Cherokee-D, which Estes RETARDEDLY decided needed a 18" chute where a 12" is almost overkill.

Incidentally, Estes later molded this same twist-lok fin unit in black for some other later kit that I cannot recall.

That's the same fin unit shape (with the additional "fin lock" parts) as used on Astrocam...

I think that exact same fin unit was also used on the "Patriarch" kit as well.

I know my Astrocam "Delta II" ended up with so many cracked fins that I ended up retiring it and switch the camera over to a Maniac...

Later! OL JR :)

PS... I'll learn not to post so soon...

The Astrocam was BT-56, the GT/Titan II was BT-60... duh!

To quote Jack Nicholson in "A Few Good Men"... "Don't I feel like an F***ing idiot."

Oh well... :p

luke strawwalker
08-01-2011, 11:16 PM
Scott and YORF,

I think what it really boils down to is ego:

'Look at me ebay viewers, I can afford to throw money away and you can't!'

Its like people in the U.S. Government who are convinced there is no financial crisis because we can AFFORD [sic] to have high debt; its a sign that we are really a economically powerful country... there are many people in our government who are in denial and on drugs.

Same with ebay bidders. I too wonder about the bidding... and folks I have blown away PLENTY of coin over the last 20 years for model rocket related collectibles, but I do it with forethought.

I look at the following things:

1)How easy is it to clone the kit?

A Mars Lander is a much harder clone than a Gemini-Titan. Before Semroc came out with their clone, I could understand having to place down a few Ben Franklins for a mint sealed kit. But now I will not spend more than twice the going rate for the clone. As for the Gemini-Titan, I have clone kits from PDR and the parts are available from Semroc/Sandman.

2)How long was the kit produced and how many instances?

The Estes 4 motor Cluster Patriot, produced 3 years in the 1000's. There is STILL a healthy amount still out there sitting in garages, closets, storage rooms that are unbuilt. They are easy cloned: bms for the ply bulkheads and have Sandman make your decals or get them somewhere else. The components needed to make a clone should EASILY cost under $75.00 yet someone decided they needed the kit (opened bags as one could easily see in the ebay picture) for $370.00. Not a very smart financial move ... even if the kit is an 'INVESTMENT'. I have one mint/sealed that if anyone pays me $200, its sold! Not a very wise investment.

There was a seller selling [SEALED] Centuri and Estes outfits a couple of weeks ago on ebay for $40 and $50 dollars from the late 70's early 80's with motors inside ... now THAT is a wise investment.

3)How significant is the kit and will others collectors buy your kit months, years, decades down the line with the same financial zeal to spend at least what you spend for the kit?

Case in point, lets go back to the $370.00 Patriot purchase:

in 20 years, what is more likely to be an item that you can resell on the collector's market:

a)Estes Pro-Series Patriot

b)Centuri Buck Rogers sealed outfit

While the Patriot is nice, it is easily cloned and there is a real possibility of a future Estes/Matt Steele re-release. You can clone a Patriot for under $75.00 and that is a conservative value.

As for the Centuri Buck Rogers outfit ... well you can clone the rocket within but how many are going to clone the plastic and metal parts of the launchpad? Are you really going to press steel into a replica blast deflector or injection blow your own plastic launcher?

How do you clone 1970's Centuri model rocket motors? You see the Centuri instance is 'fixed in time'. You either have one or you don't. You can't run out and clone it like you can the Estes Patriot.

The Centuri Buck Rogers outfit also covers two-three collectible categories:

1)Buck Rogers
2)Model Rocketry
3)Sci-Fi

With all the remakes of movies, there is a chance that within our lifetimes we could see a Buck Rogers movie that will for a short time, drive the value of your Buck Rogers related item (personally I would love to see a Flash Gordon movie first and yes the 80's remake with Queen doing the music was nice, but I want a modern remake akin to the 1930's serials... what is the probability of a 'Patriot Missile Movie'? Slim to none.

If you are planning to buy and hold for decades, and you can't find a sucker or someone who just wants to show off that they have deeper pockets than the next guy, you are better off investing in the Buck Rogers item than the Patriot.

Lets see, the Patriot sold for $370 and the Buck Rogers outfit for $50.

The Buck Rogers outfit/kits were made for one year in 1979, the Patriot in the Estes form for 3 years and in the NCR form for 5 years IIRC. 8+ years of Patriots compared to 1 year of Buck Rogers ... well I am sure the $370 Patriot buyer had other motives than just showing off their deep pockets! :D

Sorry if I have over analyzed this one.

Jonathan


One other thing that comes into play is, like real estate and the market-- buying at a high price ASSUMES that there will be some other idiot willing to throw even MORE money away than you did in the future...

That's HARDLY a 'sure thing' anymore...

When the economy goes to h3ll in a handbasket, people are going to learn the meaning of frugality again, the HARD WAY... and it's far from likely given the economic outlook that people are going to be willing to throw that kind of money around when they may be lucky to have power, a place to sleep, and food to eat... (depending on just how bad things eventually get).

If/when that happens, your GRANDKIDS might find some suckers willing to pay more than some of these jokers paid for these 'collectibles' but it won't do you much good at that point...

The economy is a fickle thing and "collectibles" is even MORE fickle... it's predicated on people having more money to throw around than sense...

Later! OL JR :)

Earl
08-02-2011, 12:19 AM
Many of the comments along the lines of 'ebay' stuff always (or almost always) seems to assume that those making purchases (rockets, in this particular case) are doing it soley for 'investment' purposes. And some may.

I would suggest that it's likely that a pretty fair number of buyers of these kits are simply doing so to obtain something special they could not afford or did not have easy access to as a kid (yep, and yep on both counts for me personally).

I have NO intention of selling the kits I purchase, and half of what I buy (two of each kit) are built or to be built (one as a 'record spare' kit if my built one crashes or is lost). I don't do the 'clone thing' if I can help it. I'd rather build the actual kit if I can at all find an original (and in most cases one can if one looks long enough).

Now, that's just me. BUT, I suspect there are many, many other collectors out there who's story is similar and are not looking to 'make a buck' off buying a kit now and selling it later. Never even thought of it that way, personally.

Most importantly, if someone has the personal finances (legally gained) to buy what they want LET THEM SPEND THEIR MONEY HOW THEY SEE FIT UNTIL THE US GOV'T DOES FINALLY GET IN THE BUSINESS OF TELLING US WHAT WE CAN OR CANNOT BUY WITH OUR OWN MONEY.

Now, if someone is paying $623 for a 2009 Estes catalog that someone's dog chewed on, yeah: give 'em an earful or at least tactfully let 'em know "hey, dude: you just might want to look at something a little more reasonable".

In the case of this particular thread (which I started some months back), I was not so much chastising someone for paying over $300 for the late 80's Gemini-Titan kit as I was in trying to UNDERSTAND such a strong interest in what 'seemed' to be a rather new and rather 'un-stellar' kit. BUT, if that kit has a special meaning for someone and they want to spend their funds on it GO FOR IT!!! THIS IS AMERICA AFTERALL (for a while longer, anyway).

IF YOU WORK FOR YOUR DREAMS, YOU DESERVE TO HAVE THEM COME TRUE!

Earl

(not near as angry as that might sound) :)

jharding58
08-02-2011, 01:34 PM
Earl,

Nicely rounded out - only one codicile. In some instances, as with live auctions, there is the testosterone factor kicking in. "I will not be beat" becomes the motivation as opposed to the relative item value. It is a roll of the die as to whether a 1/100th Saturn 1b goes for $170.00 or $300.00. I will never truly understand that.

chrism
08-02-2011, 01:52 PM
Sorry if this has already been said earlier in the thread by someone else, I personally fail to see why anybody would want to buy any rocket with a super high price tag when if possible, it can be cloned for far less!

With the left over money, they can help out economy by buying new kits from Estes, Semroc, Custom, etc.

jetlag
08-02-2011, 02:10 PM
I guess that person REALLY wanted those nice plastic display nozzles...hard to clone those! :rolleyes:

Allen

Cohetero-negro
08-02-2011, 02:12 PM
Earl,

Nicely rounded out - only one codicile. In some instances, as with live auctions, there is the testosterone factor kicking in. "I will not be beat" becomes the motivation as opposed to the relative item value. It is a roll of the die as to whether a 1/100th Saturn 1b goes for $170.00 or $300.00. I will never truly understand that.


As I have stated and given three examples, I have in the past OVER spent big-time on kits only because I had too much cash and not enough brain.

In today's economy, unless you are one of these millionaires who makes over $250,000.00 a year, its really hard justifying paying $500.00+ on an Estes Uprated Saturn 1b or anything for that matter.

Yes, as long as its your money, do what ever you want. My issue is that sellers see the valuations and suddenly a Alpha III is now worth $250.00 minimum! :(

There were two major players in the collector community back in the 90's. They played many games with people on and off-line. This was the begining of the great price increases.

I remember when one could buy just about any 'K Kit' for under $100.00. Then these two came unto the scene and fed off each other and collectors.

One member of this gruesome-twosome would shill bid ebay auctions, with no intent of paying for the auctions, but instead use the artificial auction close price as a measure to sell kits he already had in his pocession: 'See that Mars Snooper went for $225.00. I will give you a deal and sell to you off-line from my own collection for $175.00'.

The other member would just flat out misrepresent his kits as being mint and "K" when they were just skill level and ragged.

Don't know what happened to them as they have both dropped out of sight. One is suppossidly exploring the Martian planet, the other strumming his guitar on his back pourch down in Florida...

Since the 1990's, the pricing on anything 60's/70's has been astronomical in pricing!

Its like the sports card market before it collapsed in the 90's... sheer speculation.

I know that there are millionaires who read this board, but how many of them are buying $300.00+ kits off ebay?

I have always told myself that as my buying power/ability increases, so would the quality of my collectibles.

Instead of collecting a model kit or R/C of a sports car, buy the actual sports car.

Instead of a model rocket, buy an actual rocket, or something has has flown in space or two the Moon.

Besides, the kits will all come around again. I kid you not! Many a times I see the current slew of sellers on ebay who were once BUYERS 10 years ago. They are selling the SAME kits that they bought and I know that buyers today will one day sell what they are buying now. I just need to wait and work out my current finances to survive this current terrible economy.

Should the economy tank completely, what will be more valuable to the rocket collector: Fresh drinking water/food, or a "K Kit"? If the economy recovers, then put myself in a position to capitolize on the recovery and outspend the next guy biding on auction sites!

I have all but ~$6,000.00 in total debt paid off. No really, that is ALL the debt I have. No mortage, no car payments, no loans.

Interest rates go up, I don't care. Dollar collapses, I don't care. Gold through the roof, don't care again. Why? Answer: Because I have been working hard over the last year to get out from under debt and the problems it causes.

I drive a POS green, rusting Mini-Van. It may not turn the heads of the ladies but it keeps my bank account solvent and managible.

I have only two pairs of wearable jeans, and a $7.99 Walmart Timex 'knock off' watch on my wrist. I could put a $10,000.00 Rolex on my wrist but why? They still tell the SAME time. :)

But yes, it is all about personal choice.

I tell you this: If there are millionaires reading this post, and you want to buy a ready made super collection, drop me a line and we WILL do business! ;)

J

ghrocketman
08-02-2011, 03:11 PM
HEY NOW !
What's with the hatin' on Rolex watches ????

Der Red Max
08-02-2011, 03:42 PM
Sorry if this has already been said earlier in the thread by someone else, I personally fail to see why anybody would want to buy any rocket with a super high price tag when if possible, it can be cloned for far less! Why would someone pay over $1,000,000 for Action #1, when you could read & own a reprint for a few bucks or create your own copy with your own computer for free?

http://goldenagecomics.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/action500.gif (http://goldenagecomics.org/wordpress/2010/02/22/action-comics-1-sells-for-one-million-dollars/) http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Action-Comics-Superman-1938-1st-Edition-/00/$%28KGrHqZ,%21lYE4lpE4tWjBOL-TFUoM%21%7E%7E0_3.JPG (http://cgi.ebay.com/Action-Comics-Superman-1938-1st-Edition-/200634931045?_trksid=p4340.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC.OPJS%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUA%26otn%3D5%26pmod%3D150613040428%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D1784325666402979955)

It's not to buy and use or build,
it's the "high" that's achieved
when owning something deemed "rare".
Of course, "rare" is open to interpretation.;)

chrism
08-02-2011, 05:04 PM
As I have stated and given three examples, I have in the past OVER spent big-time on kits only because I had too much cash and not enough brain.

In today's economy, unless you are one of these millionaires who makes over $250,000.00 a year, its really hard justifying paying $500.00+ on an Estes Uprated Saturn 1b or anything for that matter.

Yes, as long as its your money, do what ever you want. My issue is that sellers see the valuations and suddenly a Alpha III is now worth $250.00 minimum! :(

There were two major players in the collector community back in the 90's. They played many games with people on and off-line. This was the begining of the great price increases.

I remember when one could buy just about any 'K Kit' for under $100.00. Then these two came unto the scene and fed off each other and collectors.

One member of this gruesome-twosome would shill bid ebay auctions, with no intent of paying for the auctions, but instead use the artificial auction close price as a measure to sell kits he already had in his pocession: 'See that Mars Snooper went for $225.00. I will give you a deal and sell to you off-line from my own collection for $175.00'.

The other member would just flat out misrepresent his kits as being mint and "K" when they were just skill level and ragged.

Don't know what happened to them as they have both dropped out of sight. One is suppossidly exploring the Martian planet, the other strumming his guitar on his back pourch down in Florida...

Since the 1990's, the pricing on anything 60's/70's has been astronomical in pricing!

Its like the sports card market before it collapsed in the 90's... sheer speculation.

I know that there are millionaires who read this board, but how many of them are buying $300.00+ kits off ebay?

I have always told myself that as my buying power/ability increases, so would the quality of my collectibles.

Instead of collecting a model kit or R/C of a sports car, buy the actual sports car.

Instead of a model rocket, buy an actual rocket, or something has has flown in space or two the Moon.

Besides, the kits will all come around again. I kid you not! Many a times I see the current slew of sellers on ebay who were once BUYERS 10 years ago. They are selling the SAME kits that they bought and I know that buyers today will one day sell what they are buying now. I just need to wait and work out my current finances to survive this current terrible economy.

Should the economy tank completely, what will be more valuable to the rocket collector: Fresh drinking water/food, or a "K Kit"? If the economy recovers, then put myself in a position to capitolize on the recovery and outspend the next guy biding on auction sites!

I have all but ~$6,000.00 in total debt paid off. No really, that is ALL the debt I have. No mortage, no car payments, no loans.

Interest rates go up, I don't care. Dollar collapses, I don't care. Gold through the roof, don't care again. Why? Answer: Because I have been working hard over the last year to get out from under debt and the problems it causes.

I drive a POS green, rusting Mini-Van. It may not turn the heads of the ladies but it keeps my bank account solvent and managible.

I have only two pairs of wearable jeans, and a $7.99 Walmart Timex 'knock off' watch on my wrist. I could put a $10,000.00 Rolex on my wrist but why? They still tell the SAME time. :)

But yes, it is all about personal choice.

I tell you this: If there are millionaires reading this post, and you want to buy a ready made super collection, drop me a line and we WILL do business! ;)

J
Its millionaires AND Billionaires that make $250,000!

Earl
08-02-2011, 06:05 PM
Earl,

Nicely rounded out - only one codicile. In some instances, as with live auctions, there is the testosterone factor kicking in. "I will not be beat" becomes the motivation as opposed to the relative item value. It is a roll of the die as to whether a 1/100th Saturn 1b goes for $170.00 or $300.00. I will never truly understand that.

Yes, I guess there will always be some strange drivers behind some behaviors. And some of it hard to explain or understand.

A great deal of it though I believe comes down to why anyone pays what some might consider outlandish prices for something be it $125,000 for a mint 60's muscle car (or considerably more); a couple million for an 1804 silver dollar or 1913 Liberty nickel, or rare comic books as mentioned by someone in an earlier post. Some of us would not pay those amounts; some would. It's what one places value on, for whatever reason.

Many would probably not spend everything they have for a stranger to undergo a certain medical procedure. However, make that someone a son, daughter, mother, father then 'what is important' changes drastically and what one is willing to pay changes accordingly. Maybe not a completely fair analogy, but close.

Earl

Cohetero-negro
08-03-2011, 09:10 AM
Yes, I guess there will always be some strange drivers behind some behaviors. And some of it hard to explain or understand.

A great deal of it though I believe comes down to why anyone pays what some might consider outlandish prices for something be it $125,000 for a mint 60's muscle car (or considerably more); a couple million for an 1804 silver dollar or 1913 Liberty nickel, or rare comic books as mentioned by someone in an earlier post. Some of us would not pay those amounts; some would. It's what one places value on, for whatever reason.

Many would probably not spend everything they have for a stranger to undergo a certain medical procedure. However, make that someone a son, daughter, mother, father then 'what is important' changes drastically and what one is willing to pay changes accordingly. Maybe not a completely fair analogy, but close.

Earl


Earl,

If I were a millionaire, I would buy one of every model rocket kit ever made by the top 5 manufactures.

Then I would build a small museum to house them all.

I would open it to the public and charge a small admissions fee.

If I hit Powerball, that is EXACTLY what I plan to do. I would base it in the Southwest so that people could visit it all year round. Might even buy enough land around it so that NARAM's could be held at the museum.

Do what you want to do, and sorry for being so 'critical' of that U.S.S. America purchase. If I had known it was you, I would have kept my mouth shut... maybe ;)

J

Cohetero-negro
08-03-2011, 09:21 AM
DRM,

If I had a 'spare' $1,000,000.00 laying around, YES I would buy the Action Comics featuring Superman!

Another Superman Movie is coming out next year.

I really don't like Superman as this 'Man of Steel' crap isn't real to me.

Super Heroes have problems and are borderline psychopaths. Thnk about it:

A man runs around in underware and a cape putting himself in danger ... that isn't normal.

I am an X-Men/Avengers comic follower.

Tony Stark (Iron Man) was an alchoholic back in the 1980's and lost control of his power suit; that is where Iron Man was oh the name escapes me, but Iron Man was black for a year or so. This is a real life situation! Buzz Aldrin became an alchoholic after returning from the Moon... again another real life situation.

The X-Men... my God I understand what they go through on a daily basis ... they don't fit in, we/they are misfits and don't trust society... for good reason.

The Avengers are slated to have a movie Summer 2012 ... that will be very nice! Its all coming together nicely.

So if I had a million that I could just spend, you bet I would buy important comics such as the one you listed!

J

P.s. If the reader of this post hasn't watched the movie, 'The Watchmen', you really need to rent or Netflix the movie! I found it to be REAL and exactly what I would expect of real-life Super Heroes ... just like movie, 'Kick Ass'. People whether they can fly, vibrate through walls, or see into the future, all have problems and weaknesses that don't require Kryptonite.