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Earl 03-02-2014 09:16 AM

Ukraine: What To Do?
 
Looks like a potential powder keg......wonder what Obama/Kerry will do?

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/02/world....html?hpt=hp_t1


Earl

dlazarus6660 03-02-2014 09:21 AM

Do nothing and let them get into it!

Earl 03-02-2014 09:26 AM

I'm just afraid it has the makings of a much broader conflict.....

ghrocketman 03-02-2014 10:12 AM

How about not a dammed thing ?
I'm sick and tired of us playing world police without charging for every red cent of it by confiscating natural resources at a minimum.
In the future, I favor that anytime you piss us off bad enough to require US Military intervention, we are going to come in and CONQUER and SUBJUGATE, just like prior to existence of the post WWII POS UN.
If more countries got the clue that is how we operate, there would be a hell of a lot less nonsense. NOTHING would be off the table including the use of Nukes. Citizens of conquered countriex would toe-the-line or would receive a 59 cent 5.56 bullet. The gloves should be off. No more Mr. Nice Guy.

astronwolf 03-02-2014 11:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
I'm just afraid it has the makings of a much broader conflict.....

Yup. When I heard that Russia had massed troops on the border, and Kerry assuring us that Russia is just conducting a military exercise, I told my family - watch. Russia is going to grab Crimea, and those troops on maneuvers are going to roll into eastern Ukraine. No surprise there. The Crimean Peninsula was just annexed by Russia.

I think this Administration has soiled its drawers, and doesn't know what to do. All the western countries are looking to each other while wringing their hands waiting for a leader to step forward. Our ambassador Samantha Powers demanded that "the Russian Military must stand down." Sure. It will stand down just as soon as the troops stabilize the region and establish the new status quo. The West will do nothing. To do anything will be to invite WWIII, and everyone knows it. Look at NATO troop deployments in the region. No one is set up for this.

Earl 03-02-2014 12:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by astronwolf
Yup. When I heard that Russia had massed troops on the border, and Kerry assuring us that Russia is just conducting a military exercise, I told my family - watch. Russia is going to grab Crimea, and those troops on maneuvers are going to roll into eastern Ukraine. No surprise there. The Crimean Peninsula was just annexed by Russia.

I think this Administration has soiled its drawers, and doesn't know what to do. All the western countries are looking to each other while wringing their hands waiting for a leader to step forward. Our ambassador Samantha Powers demanded that "the Russian Military must stand down." Sure. It will stand down just as soon as the troops stabilize the region and establish the new status quo. The West will do nothing. To do anything will be to invite WWIII, and everyone knows it. Look at NATO troop deployments in the region. No one is set up for this.


Yeah, I think that pretty well sums it up. I'm not saying personally we should do anything just yet, was just raising the 'concern' that this thing could really escalate in all kinds of undesirable directions the way it is going.

I do agree with GH in this case that I too am kind of tired of this country being (or trying to be) the world's policeman.

Earl

moonzero2 03-02-2014 01:35 PM

We need to leave Russia and Ukraine alone. USA getting involved in Ukraine would be like Russia getting involved with Canada.

shrox 03-02-2014 01:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by astronwolf
...I think this Administration has soiled its drawers...


I would too.

This is bad, and it is an invitation to WWIII, plus random other factions taking advantage of the chaos, both foreign and domestic.

If something does go down, our "hobby" will too.

stefanj 03-02-2014 02:09 PM

You have to give the Russians credit: The country that posed no threat to them that they decided to invade is right next door! They can save a lot of money that way!

Meanwhile, Poland is gathering troops at Ukraine's borders.

jharding58 03-02-2014 02:52 PM

Russia wants Crimea back so they will take it. The populace is ethnic Russian so Putin uses the same threat he saw in Georgia/Ossetia. One teacup storm is about it.

luke strawwalker 03-02-2014 02:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
How about not a dammed thing ?
I'm sick and tired of us playing world police without charging for every red cent of it by confiscating natural resources at a minimum.
In the future, I favor that anytime you piss us off bad enough to require US Military intervention, we are going to come in and CONQUER and SUBJUGATE, just like prior to existence of the post WWII POS UN.
If more countries got the clue that is how we operate, there would be a hell of a lot less nonsense. NOTHING would be off the table including the use of Nukes. Citizens of conquered countriex would toe-the-line or would receive a 59 cent 5.56 bullet. The gloves should be off. No more Mr. Nice Guy.


Agree completely-- not our sandbox...

Sooner or later we're probably going to have to clean house so to speak in Mexico, since they seem incapable of cleaning up their own messes... when we do, we don't need the Russians sticking their nose into it...

That's their backyard, let them clean it up. We need to clean up our own backyard...

Later! OL JR :)

Earl 03-02-2014 03:50 PM

Latest....
 
From CNN --

"Russian forces now "have complete operational control of the Crimean Peninsula," a senior U.S. administration official said Sunday of the escalating crisis in Ukraine. The United States estimates there are 6,000 Russian ground and naval forces in the region, the official said. Amid the tensions, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry will travel to Kiev on Tuesday, an Obama administration official said."


Well, gosh, I thought this situation might become an 'issue'.....Looks like things are simmering down nicely. Now we can get back to the Oscars!! :confused:


Earl

dlazarus6660 03-02-2014 04:04 PM

Oh those Ruskies!
Now if they can get their country back together, maybe they can get back to sending a man(or woman) to the moon. :rolleyes:

luke strawwalker 03-02-2014 05:41 PM

Can't help but notice they waited til the Olympics were over...

I still trust Putin more than I trust Obama... Had it not been for Putin being a leader and giving Obama an "out" after his stupid grandstanding over Syria, we might well have already been in the middle of WWIII... The Russians have said before they'd use nuclear weapons if necessary against the US if we keep just going anywhere we want anytime we want, especially in regards to Syria and Iran...

Besides, the Syrian mess is largely of our own making-- while Obama backs radical terrorists to get rid of Assad, while Assad was a turd, at least he was a pretty quiescent turd... at least they weren't massacring Christians and other minorities and setting up another "Dirtbagistan Islamic Republic" like the terrorists Obama is backing will undoubtedly do if they win...

Later! OL JR :)

Earl 03-03-2014 08:55 AM

Well, the impact is already being felt in the markets....


U.S. stocks tumble at the opening bell as the Ukraine crisis rattles investors. Dow drops more than 100 points.* CNN

I don't think Moscow is going to be 'talked' out of this one. Seems they are 'down for the struggle'.


Earl

Bill 03-03-2014 02:25 PM

I would not want to be in Taiwan right now.


Bill

Closet Astronaut 03-03-2014 04:24 PM

Do some research on the events that led up to WWII. Watch Germany.

http://www.thetrumpet.com/

moonzero2 03-03-2014 08:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by luke strawwalker
Agree completely-- not our sandbox...

Sooner or later we're probably going to have to clean house so to speak in Mexico, since they seem incapable of cleaning up their own messes... when we do, we don't need the Russians sticking their nose into it...

That's their backyard, let them clean it up. We need to clean up our own backyard...

Later! OL JR :)



I agree 200%. We don't want Russia putting their nose in Mexico.

shrox 03-03-2014 09:32 PM

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...cks-havana-cuba

mikemech 03-04-2014 10:28 AM

If I wrote down everything bad, crooked, dangerous or treasonous about this administration I would be here at least a week. Then I would never finish sanding those PITA tiny nose cones on my VF-261. So, I'll keep it short: Butt OUT!

Jerry Irvine 03-04-2014 10:32 AM

Here's an article on the legal ramifications.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/...ne-intervention

jharding58 03-04-2014 05:56 PM

Not much to be done in Crimea. The challenge will be if Putin feels empowered to go into Ukraine proper, or if the former head of state (and Russia sees Yanukovych as that) can make a case to the world court of opinion that he was ousted in a coup. Seriously though, the Black Sea Fleet still has a sizeable presence in Sevastapol and the only way in or out of the Black Sea is the Bosporus, and I do not see the west closing that strait down. Something like half of Europe gets their natural Gas from Russia so I would not see the EU doing too much other than bluster and rattling - maybe scissors but surely not sabres.

Jerry Irvine 03-04-2014 10:02 PM

Sink the fleet with folks with no flag on their uniform. Solved.

astronwolf 03-05-2014 07:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jharding58
Not much to be done in Crimea. The challenge will be if Putin feels empowered to go into Ukraine proper....

Just like Blitzkrieg tactics were adopted and refining by us, and worked so well in Kuwait and Iraq, what Russia is doing reminds me of the start of Nazi expansion in the 1930's.

That's not to say, what's happening in Ukraine is exactly the same. It just reminds me of 1930s Europe. Hitler invaded the Sudetenland "to protect German people" living in those areas which are now part of Czechoslovakia. Russia just annexed the Crimean peninsula, and Putin is telling everyone that they did that "to protect Russian people." My guess is that if Nazi expansion is the appropriate model here, Putin is going to let the West chase its tail for a while to allow time for things to settle down before his next move. That is, if the annexation of Crimea is the start of Russian expansion in the region. Maybe Obama is ironically correct - the Cold War is over.

The price of Taiwan is pretty low right now.

ghrocketman 03-05-2014 12:21 PM

Jerry Irvine makes a good point. No flag on ship/uniform=TARGET PRACTICE.


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