Vintage Estes K36 Saturn Build
 

I now have another new Estes Saturn V like everyone else but will hold off building it for now, figure there are plenty of other builders who cant wait to get started. I do want to build a Saturn V for the 50th anniversary. I have a couple of old Saturn V kits that are in short boxes with one being older than the other. The kits are identical with parts except the older model has balsa half dowels vs hardwood and the older kit has the old parachutes. Both kits are in great condition minus the Bt-101 tubes and JT-101 couplers, they are a little distorted in both kits. I am leaning on building the older Saturn V Pre-Damon log, maybe I will just flip a coin. I will be building out of the box with all original parts except the rubber shock cord since it is pretty old and way too short. It will be a little bit before I can start building since I am working on fixing the slightly deformed bt-101 tubes. As soon as they hold their shape I will get started. Just a note, the older box opens from the top or bottom, and the newer box lid comes off to access all the parts.

Awesome! Can't wait to follow this one!

I would love to see the older one!

I'm in the hospital right now. So, I have limited internet access, and can't do the searching that I would usually do before replying.

IINM, the old Estes Kits were pop tops whereas the Centuri kits split at the 2nd and third stage transition.
The Estes Kits had some deployment issues that the Centuri didn't.

If this is correct... I would recommend building it in the Centuri style.

Agree about deployment.
Do NOT have it deploy the laundry at the capsule separation point of the original K36.
On a single D12 it WILL fail to eject.
Have it separate the "Centuri" way if you intend to fly it.

How many centering rings does the K-36 use? If it has a bunch like my old Centuri kit, it should round itself out pretty good with minimal work ahead of time.

One possible option... build it Centuri style but try and incorporate the Estes techniques in a non deployable form so it could show how both worked.

I always use fishing swivels to attach parachutes... If you were to as well, you could use the 50 year old shock cord in the Estes section with a minimum weight penalty.

Wow - Originals!

Like everybody else, I'd go with the Centuri mid-point separation.
You probably already know this -
Be sure to test fit the corrugated card stock wrap fit before gluing.
On the last one I made the wrap ends didn't meet.

Looking forward to the build!

Awesome, I will be following this built. I recently bought a K-36 to build for the anniversary. It looks like I have the newer version. It appears complete and in good builder condition. I paid $100 BIN with free shipping so hopefully I didn't overpay too much.

Newly released #1969 kits retail for $89 and it probably costs about $10 to ship so you're in the ball park without factoring in how scarce and/or collectible it may be. You have classic box art to display, so that's also a bonus. Some folks will think you got a bargain, some will think you overpaid. If you're happy, you didn't overpay.

BTW, the K-36 is a bit more accurately scaled with the embossed paper wraps and smaller fins.

Well, how do you feel now?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Es...=p2047675.l2557

[QUOTE=mojo1986]Well, how do you feel now?

Ha, Ha pretty good …. the Fortin AVERAGE is $135 but prices seemed to have gone down since then.

That eBay sale was a bit above average at $228.50 plus shipping!

Yes, that's no doubt true. But he's gotta feel good about getting his vintage kit for a hundred bucks (including shipping!) in a year when there will probably be heightened interest in the Saturn V.

I got lucky with my purchases, but my vintage Saturn B was a bit expensive but worth it.

Well, it has been awhile but the build is coming along and will post pictures later. I do have a question about the embossed wraps that go between the engine shrouds. The instructions show the wraps are cut with a gap in between two wraps. I cannot find how much of a gap this is on the directions or the pattern sheet. I could only find one K36 build and a picture Chris posted on his website. Am I missing something? Or should I just guess how wide the gap is?

Unless you are planning for scale competition, a guess on the gap is PLENTY GOOD ENUFF.

Well so far this has been a fun build even though my time has been limited. I have received advise on modifications to the build but I decided to keep it stock as per the plans. I do have a second K36 kit mint newer production that I may build in the future and also have all the other Saturn V rockets Estes has produced. So for this build she is straight out of the box per the plans with all the old parts. The paper transitions are spot on for the correct size and I had to be super careful since the paper and centering rings are made of thin material. I am using PVA Type II white glue I found at Home Depot, appears to be the same as Titebond Type II only it dries faster and clear. I am not a big fan of yellow on my builds, don't know why Titebond adds yellow dye to their glue, they have said it is a marketing strategy, oh well. As you can see the BT-101 tubes came out nice and round after stuffing some Bt-101 couplers inside for a month, the Estes Bt-101 couplers are pretty flimsy but they worked just fine, also a tight fit and you get one shot of gluing in place. The embossed wraps are pretty old and were crinkled before I started but I was able to glue them on without much issues and again a perfect fit. Since this is an old kit I know the build will not be perfect and I am ok with that, basically a paper and cardboard rocket. The black print on the paper parts is so old it scrapes off when I am cutting the parts out. I just finished the paper engine shrouds and they fit ok but more of the issue was using the old paper parts. The embossed engine shrouds are glued on top of the paper shrouds and that stiffens the shrouds, even though I don't think I got them on perfectly straight they will work. So per the plans I still have to add the bottom embossed pieces, balsa fins and then off to the first round of painting. The embossed paper is not very deep so I will have to be careful with painting as not to fill the details. I will finish sanding the fins today and apply 3 coats of balsa sealer and begin the painting process.

I have to upload in smaller batches

Last 3

It's cool to see how the K-36 goes together compared to the 2001 version and the Centuri KS-12 (5142). Pics are better than looking at old plans.

Hope you don't plan on flying it if you kept the ejection point of the build as per absurd instructions.

Trust me I plan on flying her.
Getting closer to painting, just have to glue the fins on and some other details. The plans call for painting the white and black then adding a lot of the details to ease in masking. Since the paper parts are pretty old, I really don't want to mess with cutting and scraping the paint so I may just glue everything on now and deal with the masking later. The large paper wrap makes it pretty easy to mark where all the detail go.

If you fly it on an Aerotech Composite E30 or F32 it will probably eject the laundry.
If you use a D12 or E12 don't be surprised if you get a "Lawn Dart".

I am slowly plugging on with this old vintage Saturn V and she is now ready for primer. The balsa fins and tunnels have 3 coats of balsa sealer. The half round balsa tunnels were warped and out of shape, but that is what you get with an old vintage kit.

I cannot state it emphatically enough how bad the K36/1236 recovery separation point SUCKS.
Modify it to the Centuri/Estes 2001 separation point and you WILL thank yourself.

I finally had a nice couple of days to paint, so first I lightly sprayed on fine grey primer followed by Old Formula Krylon white. What a large rocket but I tried to go easy on the paint. Now the fun part, masking for black and silver.

Looking very nice!

Vintage build
 

Hi, this is a Centuri kit, built maybe 20 yrs ago. It has the plastic wraps not paper. I will fly for anniversary but using a D12. Can you clarify the separate Centuri way. The Estes capsule separation was at the tower/ capsule?
I can do a 3 C6 cluster but the summer camp w kids may not be too savvy, plus I haven’t flown one in years, unless there is a guaranteed igniter setup

I read a post where they converted the engines to use the display nozzles but can only find the pics not the thread.
I also can’t figure how to attach pics here
Thanks, I’m scheduled to fly next week
Joe

The original Estes K-36 separates at the capsule. The Estes #2001 (paper shrouds) separates at the same place as your Centuri kit, as does the latter Estes #2157 and #1969 kits (plastic shrouds).

Stick with the single D12-3 (if that's how it is built) for the demo launch at summer camp. It will look good, lift off slower (more scale like) and the kids can see the ejection better. If it's built as a cluster, you don't have much choice, either 3 C6's or 3 B6's. Make sure you use a good 12v ignition source and check your igniters before installing them.

I would use a 24mm Aerotech E30.

Hi, many thanks for the feedback.
On the older Centuri kit, do I need the clear stabilizing fins?
Haven’t flown this in 20 years. Next week is the day
Thanks
Jz

I never flew mine without them. You might get by without them on a single D12-3, but I'd definitely use them with a cluster. Since the Centuri kit is such a classic, it isn't worth taking the chance without them, IMHO.

One thing I always did was to make sure I put the clear fin slot on the same side for all four fins. That gave it a slight roll, adding stability. If you don't pay attention, you could end up putting the fins on in a way that makes it tip over.

Success on 50th anniversary
 

Had a great time flying on a D12-3, ejection was quick, maybe went 150 ft. Used the clear fins. Easy recovery.
Thanks for all comments
Joe

Mine is all masked off ready for the black paint, been too busy at work and this build is coming along slowly. Masking was not all that bad, but I need the humidity to come down before I can paint.

GH will come in and tell you to fly it on nothing less than an F, but the D12-3 is perfect for demonstrations so that people of all ages can see all aspects of the flight, and for locations as small as a little league field (usually 200 ft from the plate to the fence) as long as you pay attention to the wind. Glad it went well for you!

I'm in the same boat. I've been covering shifts for folks at summer guard camp and for a couple surgeries. Between that and all the crazy rain and humidity, I just didn't get it done by the 20th. It's guaranteed to be done by Apollo 12's anniversary, though!

Estes no longer lists the D12-3 as a motor for the current Saturn V.
Only the E12-4 and E30-4.
I have never flown one on less than a 3xC5-3 cluster, which is ~75% of a full-40 n-sec E.
I consider the Aerotech E15/18/28/30 as a minimum.
They fly great on 24mm RMS F24's.
Yes, I do consider Saturn V flights on D's a BAD JOKE.

Hi, but mine was built 30 yrs ago. Which E would fit where a D12 fits. It’s in the same space that the 3 engine cluster fits.
Thanks
Jz

An Aerotech E30 is the same size as an Estes D12.
More than double the power with 40n-sec compared to the 17n-sec Estes D.