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-   -   Your thoughts on SOPA? (http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=10557)

Dannycolossus 01-17-2012 08:41 PM

Your thoughts on SOPA?
 
So, what do you folks here think about the SOPA bill which will be voted on soon? The bill basically allows the government to censor anything that it or the entertainment industry that is trying to hoodwink everyone, finds a threat to " copyright laws". Trouble is, this gives the existing entertainment industry almost a monopoly as it would keep aspiring film makers from using anything that vaugely resembles anything like one of their published films, and sites like Facebook, Youtube, and many forums would be severely cripled, cuz guess what? mention anything from a copyrighted work, like the words "Lightsaber, terminator, any famous movie qoutes, or song lyrics, equal grounds to be censored. this basically would shut down the web as we know it, and make whats left a pretty bland place. google SOPA and read up on it. And let us know what you think of this crock. ( and please, keep smart@$$ comments and such off this thread)

gpoehlein 01-17-2012 09:32 PM

As a professional writer, one would think I would support anything that strengthen's copyright laws. But this thing is so poorly thought out that it would make a total hash out of copyright issues. I think the best thing written on the subject was written a number of years ago by Spider Robinson. If you can find a copy of the book "Melancholy Elephants", the title story is about passing a bill that strengthens and lengthens copyright to perpetuity. The story features Robert Heinlein's widow, Virginia explaining to lawmakers why she does NOT support this bill and makes several very very good points. Oh, and the title refers to the fact that elephants never forget, and this is what makes them melancholy (they can never again experience the joy of discovering something new because, for them, there is nothing new under the sun).

If you can find a copy in a used bookstore or online, it is very much worth the read.

Greg

Mark II 01-18-2012 09:02 PM

What do I think of SOPA? Why, I █████████████, and it's █████████! And furthermore, ████████████ █████████████████████ █████████████. What were █████████████████████████████████████?

Let me break it down:
  1. ████████████ ███████████████ ███████████ ██████ ██████████████████ ███████████████████████ ██████████████ █████████████████████████
  2. ████████████ █████████████ █████ ████████ █████████ ███████████████ █████████████████ ████████████████████████████
  3. ████████ █████████████████ █████████████ ██████████████ ██████████ ███████████████████████████████████ ███████████████████████████ ██████████████████ ████████████████████████████████████████████ :rolleyes:
  4. ███████████████████ ███████ █████ █████ ███████ █████████ ██████████ ██████████████████████████████ ███████████████ :eek: █████████████████ ████████████████████ ████████████ ████████████████████████
  5. █████ ████████████████ █████████████████████ ███████████ ███ ██████ ████████████████████████ ██████████████████ !
This █████████████████████ █████████████████ █████ , immediately!

tbzep 01-18-2012 09:06 PM

I use SOPA every time I take a shower....at least once every week or two. :eek:

Mark II 01-18-2012 09:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
I use SOPA every time I take a shower....at least once every week or two. :eek:
Whether you need it or not!

Tau Zero 01-18-2012 09:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark II
What do I think of SOPA? Why, I █████████████, and it's █████████! And furthermore, ████████████ █████████████████████ █████████████. What were █████████████████████████████████████?

Let me break it down:
  1. ████████████ ███████████████ ███████████ ██████ ██████████████████ ███████████████████████ ██████████████ █████████████████████████
  2. ████████████ █████████████ █████ ████████ █████████ ███████████████ █████████████████ ████████████████████████████
  3. ████████ █████████████████ █████████████ ██████████████ ██████████ ███████████████████████████████████ ███████████████████████████ ██████████████████ ████████████████████████████████████████████ :rolleyes:
  4. ███████████████████ ███████ █████ █████ ███████ █████████ ██████████ ██████████████████████████████ ███████████████ :eek: █████████████████ ████████████████████ ████████████ ████████████████████████
  5. █████ ████████████████ █████████████████████ ███████████ ███ ██████ ████████████████████████ ██████████████████ !
This █████████████████████ █████████████████ █████ , immediately!
What Mark said. Especially #3. :eek:

Of a similar mind,

Scott21 01-18-2012 09:43 PM

I found this to be rather funny...and interesting:
http://static.thepiratebay.org/legal/sopa.txt

Mark II 01-18-2012 10:28 PM

Once they extract some of the more effusive and volatile elements, they'll still have Cup o' SOPA.

luke strawwalker 01-18-2012 10:44 PM

Whatever happened to this country???

I mean, when I was growing up, we built tens of thousands of nuclear weapons and missiles, bombers, artillery, etc. to deliver them, and were half a heartbeat away from nuking half the planet to 'protect our freedoms'... (nevermind we'd have been ashes ourselves about 30 minutes later... at least our ashes would be "free").

NOW, we have stuff like THIS... like the Patriot Act, and like Obama just giving himself carte blanche power to imprison anyone he deems a 'terrorist' without habeus corpus... in effect, suspending the Constitution... imprisoned without trial, without bail, without being faced by your accusers... guilty until proven innocent...

I don't even recognize this country anymore... I REALLY feel sad for those stuck defending it... much like the Roman legions, servants stuck in far-flung Imperial possessions defending a homeland rotten to the core and imploding from its own excesses...

Somewhere along the line, we've become ruled by "The Golden Rule"-- "he who has the gold MAKES THE RULES!!"...

I really don't see the difference anymore between us, Russia, and China anymore... just a matter of degrees and affluence... the lies are the same-- meet the new boss-- same as the old boss...

Like my Dad used to say, "Doesn't matter what flag flies on the pole, the lies stay the same..."

There's nothing new under the sun is EXACTLY right...

Later! OL JR :)

Raygun 01-18-2012 11:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by luke strawwalker
Whatever happened to this country???

I mean, when I was growing up, we built tens of thousands of nuclear weapons and missiles, bombers, artillery, etc. to deliver them, and were half a heartbeat away from nuking half the planet to 'protect our freedoms'... (nevermind we'd have been ashes ourselves about 30 minutes later... at least our ashes would be "free").

NOW, we have stuff like THIS... like the Patriot Act, and like Obama just giving himself carte blanche power to imprison anyone he deems a 'terrorist' without habeus corpus... in effect, suspending the Constitution... imprisoned without trial, without bail, without being faced by your accusers... guilty until proven innocent...

I don't even recognize this country anymore... I REALLY feel sad for those stuck defending it... much like the Roman legions, servants stuck in far-flung Imperial possessions defending a homeland rotten to the core and imploding from its own excesses...

Somewhere along the line, we've become ruled by "The Golden Rule"-- "he who has the gold MAKES THE RULES!!"...

I really don't see the difference anymore between us, Russia, and China anymore... just a matter of degrees and affluence... the lies are the same-- meet the new boss-- same as the old boss...

Like my Dad used to say, "Doesn't matter what flag flies on the pole, the lies stay the same..."

There's nothing new under the sun is EXACTLY right...

Later! OL JR :)



To be sure short sighted and greedy has never changed, but hold on there, think about this;
The country you thought you knew never really existed anyway. So not much really has changed. Only the fact that mediated life has transcended digitally, and laws to make money are filling in all the niches therein. That's all.
EDIT: things have a way of working themselves out to have the appearance of looking better than it really is, there will be a manipulated negotiation on the perspective of things 'leveling out' so it doesn't look completely bankrupt, only mostly.

Mark II 01-19-2012 03:32 AM

Organized protest and citizen involvement can be effective; it sounds like there is movement in Congress to pull back the bills for retooling. I think that they need to go much further than that; I think that the whole rationale and purported need for these bills should be seriously reexamined. Content companies are not hurting for business or profits. They have been doing better than the national average. There needs to be a truthful, fact-based examination of whether copyright violations actually cause economic harm. Songs aren't widgets. Making an extra copy of a song doesn't use up any additional resources, and it needs to be demonstrated that it actually deprives the company of a sale. It is also not artists who are primarily making a stink about this, but rather the companies that they are under contract with. It is unclear whether these proposed bills would do anything at all to help actual artists or content creators. Patent and copyright laws are intended to promote the advancement of the art, not to guarantee a certain level of profit for entities that acquire the work of artists but who create none of it themselves. These proposals were created in response to heavy lobbying pressure by and large campaign contributions from major copyright houses and media companies. I'm sorry, but record company execs aren't starving artists.

tbzep 01-19-2012 07:13 AM

If/when SOPA passes, it will be the new Prohibition. A few casual "drinkers" will be affected, but the vast majority will not be deterred from their distribution and consumption.

gpoehlein 01-19-2012 07:32 AM

I was listening to All Things Considered last night and they did a story about SOPA - they played a quote from a spokesman from the movie industry (who, although I don't remember his name, I seem to remember he used to BE in congress) who basically called all the protesters (Google, Wikipedia, etc) crybabies. Why, the movie and music industry NEEDS this bill to fight back against the hoards of digital pirates who are poised to destroy the movie and music industry with their greedy ways. Why, to NOT suppoert these bills is to be totally unamerican! (because everyone KNOWS that we need to preserve the profits of big business over the rights of the average citizen). Have you decided which overlord you wish to serve?

OTOH, I hear a number of Republican senators are jumping ship based on the protests and resulting storm of constituent communications - I also heard the flow of emails into some of the congressional offices shut down their servers for a while.

Greg

Scott21 01-19-2012 08:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark II
<snip> These proposals were created in response to heavy lobbying pressure by and large campaign contributions from major copyright houses and media companies. I'm sorry, but record company execs aren't starving artists.

'Nuff said.

Doug Sams 01-19-2012 09:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpoehlein
Why, the movie and music industry NEEDS this bill to fight back against the hoards of digital pirates who are poised to destroy the movie and music industry with their greedy ways. Why, to NOT suppoert these bills is to be totally unamerican! (because everyone KNOWS that we need to preserve the profits of big business over the rights of the average citizen). Have you decided which overlord you wish to serve?
I'm not very learned of the bill, but the one snippet I saw called for web sites to not link to pirated material (on other sites). That's asking web masters to do the dirty work. We already have enough crap laws like that - getting carded to buy cold medicine comes to mind. (I look forward to the day that gets repealed.)

I understand the need to protect IP - Lord knows there's enough copying going on in Asia - but this certainly ain't the right way to do it.

As for big business, keep in mind, they're big employers, too :) While I don't want to see them get preferential treatment, they too have IP which needs to be protected, which benefits many of us.


Doug

.

ghrocketman 01-19-2012 10:49 AM

Hate it. Quite frankly I don't like anti piracy laws AT ALL.
This country needs more regulation OF ANYTHING like it needs more national debt.

Dannycolossus 01-19-2012 08:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark II
It is also not artists who are primarily making a stink about this, but rather the companies that they are under contract with.

Because most artists get paid to write the song or script, up front, and gets either a very small cut or none at all whenever their work is used. So really, the companies are raising crap because theyaren't making as much money as they could for something they paid someone else to do in the first place. America: the government by the big corporations, of greed, and for money. The allmighty dollar is what half the crap in Washington relate to: not how to help the country or anything like that, but making stupid restrictions like the cold medicine thing, treat everyone with a head cold like the 1% who use it for something stupid in their trailer park. If they stopped regulating stuff that heavily, there wouldn't be a problem, lots of the stuff druggies do is to circumvent the overly strict laws. if someone wants to act stupid let them. The same goes for internet. If someone buys a pirated CD or goes to copy a song they already bought, let them, don't basically shut down the whole freaking web on the begging of multimillion dollar companies.


BTW, this may be interesting, the (non-American) owners of Megauploader were arrested by American cops on foreign soil for running a site that may become against american law. that may be a tiny little overstepping of jurisdiction there... :rolleyes:

luke strawwalker 01-19-2012 11:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannycolossus

BTW, this may be interesting, the (non-American) owners of Megauploader were arrested by American cops on foreign soil for running a site that may become against american law. that may be a tiny little overstepping of jurisdiction there... :rolleyes:


Not for the Empire...

Later! OL JR :)

Mark II 01-20-2012 05:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannycolossus
BTW, this may be interesting, the (non-American) owners of Megauploader were arrested by American cops on foreign soil for running a site that may become against american law. that may be a tiny little overstepping of jurisdiction there... :rolleyes:
So if authorities are able to do that now, then what is the need for SOPA/PIPA?

mycrofte 01-20-2012 08:00 AM

Like some of you said, it isn't about protecting the artist, it is about corporations making MORE money than they already are.

I have yet to know ANYONE making money off of copied material. Like myself, they do it for home entertainment. Or, like my music, I make CD copies for my truck and keep the original at home.

Other than that, it is because the stuff I want is priced at $60 plus, while "Friends" goes for $19.99 per season!
______

tbzep 01-20-2012 08:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark II
So if authorities are able to do that now, then what is the need for SOPA/PIPA?

One of their servers is in the USA (Virginia, iirc), giving them "jurisdiction".

ghrocketman 01-20-2012 09:28 AM

Boo-F'n-Hoo for the bat-rastard corporations that think they are not getting enough money...they don't distribute it to the people that are doing the real work anyway...they give it to muckety-muck do-nuthin-but-whine-and-demand executives and possibly shareholders.
I for one am sick and tired of gov't agencies beholding to big-money corporate interests instead of individual US Citizens anyway. We need a total paradigm shift within the country as to what/who the gov't works for.

o1d_dude 01-20-2012 05:36 PM

Breaking the security of the Domain Name System is pretty stupid.

The movie and recording industry will once again have to be brought to the trough of profits kicking and screaming claiming they'll be driven out of business by changes to the way business is done.

The following is a pretty good insight into this way of thinking:

Quote:
"There has grown up in the minds of certain groups in this country the notion that because a man or corporation has made a profit out of the public for a number of years, the government and the courts are charged with the duty of guaranteeing such profit in the future, even in the face of changing circumstances and contrary public interest. This strange doctrine is not supported by statute nor common law. Neither individuals nor corporations have any right to come into court and ask that the clock of history be stopped or turned back, for their private benefit."
--- Robert A Heinlein

o1d_dude 01-20-2012 05:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
Boo-F'n-Hoo for the bat-rastard corporations that think they are not getting enough money...they don't distribute it to the people that are doing the real work anyway...they give it to muckety-muck do-nuthin-but-whine-and-demand executives and possibly shareholders.
I for one am sick and tired of gov't agencies beholding to big-money corporate interests instead of individual US Citizens anyway. We need a total paradigm shift within the country as to what/who the gov't works for.


We have the finest government money can buy.

So join the NRA if you haven't already done so and send them money. Seems like they're the only ones who speak for the little people like us any more.

gpoehlein 01-20-2012 06:22 PM

Looks like the protests were effective - both house and senate bills have been tabled indefinitely.


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