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Old 11-20-2017, 08:37 PM
frognbuff frognbuff is offline
Aggressor Aerospace
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
Marketing experience and analysis have shown that company names--as well as product names--*do* make a difference, which can be positive or negative. Also, history has shown--the events of 1986, in particular, provide a poignant example--that having multiple launch vehicles, especially for military spacecraft, is a good idea, despite the higher costs. As well:

Actually, he does know the costs of the AJ-27 and other current and historic engines, and he thought this launch vehicle concept should be examined by those in the USAF who make the analyses and the procurement decisions. (There is also no immutable reason why the AJ-27's production cost cannot be reduced [including by simplifying it and reducing its parts count], with today's new manufacturing technologies such as 3D printing, which is already being used to produce rocket engines.) That doesn't mean that the "Delta II-Lite" will be built, of course, but progress doesn't occur if new ideas are not considered. In this connection (examining new ideas, that is):

During the X-43 program I was the volunteer range historian for the Poker Flat Research Range (PFRR), and I contacted the NASA Dryden Flight Research Center--now re-named the Armstrong Flight Research Center--with a suggestion. The X-43 scramjet test vehicles had no recovery systems (mass, complexity, the available onboard volume, or budget limitations [or several or even all four of these factors] resulted in that), and I asked them if they would like to recover the vehicles, even in damaged condition, for physical post-flight examination; they said "Yes." I then suggested that flying the X-43 vehicles over PFRR (which is well-instrumented, both at the launch site and downrange) could facilitate recovery, by landing the vehicles on snow, tundra, or (during the warm months) shallow lakes downrange, and:

They were so interested in this possibility that the X-43 project managers came up here and met with the range personnel, including myself. This option was ultimately not proceeded with (the cost of re-locating here for the missions, since they'd already set up everything at the Pacific Missile Range for mission support, was the major factor). But this operation was not a waste, because they had never even *thought* of flying hypersonic test vehicles up here, an option which they would keep in mind for future programs, and they thanked me for making them aware of this possibility. At the time, follow-on X-43-type test vehicles were planned (these were subsequently cancelled), and Poker Flat was one of the ranges that would be considered for supporting their missions. Since NASA's funding and priorities wax, wane, wax again, and change over time, such hypersonic flight test programs may become "a hot item" again, and Poker Flat may support such missions in the future. In addition:

Recently I made a suggestion to the U.S. Geological Survey Astrogeology Science Center concerning their photo-mapping techniques related to spacecraft camera and instrument targeting for examining irregular bodies, such as asteroids and comets. They utilize rectangular "photo-boxes," with each face being a two-dimensional image of the body as seen from its "front," "rear," "top," "bottom," and "left side" and "right side," which they use to visualize its shape. I suggested--to someone there with whom I correspond--that they could use stereo-pair photographs for each face of the box, so that they could visualize the surface site targeting in 3D. He asked for my permission--which I gratefully gave--to pass my idea (with acknowledgement to me as the source of it) along to the relevant USGS imaging and mapping scientists because they had not thought of doing such a thing, even though most spacecraft missions take enough images from different angles to produce usable stereo-pair photographs. Now:

I did not recount these occurrences to brag, but simply to illustrate that new ideas should be put forward to be examined and considered by those who could benefit from them. Sometimes the ideas will be workable and beneficial, sometimes they will not; but *not* suggesting them at all will not lead to progress (which sometimes even occurs when it is discovered *why* an unworkable idea is unworkable).


What does that "branding" stuff have to do with anything? You like Boeing over ULA? Fantastic. It means nothing. ULA owns the rocket, Boeing does not.

I'm sorry, but NO, your friend does not know the cost of an AJ-27 engine today. Only an employee of Aerojet Rocketdyne would know for sure - and getting a cost proposal would require definition of things such as the lot size being purchased. Bulk purchasing isn't just for Costco and Sam's Club! Your friend may have had a snapshot in time, but there's a reason that type of information has an "as of" date. The older his information is, the less reliable it is, and not just due to inflation.

As for "putting ideas forward," do you REALLY think you or your friend are the only ones who have considered these ideas? NOBODY else has ever tried to simplify a design? By even implying that, you spit in the eyes of people who build rockets for a living. Improvements - including in 3D printing to reduce part count and complexity - ARE being made, but they're being made on engines that are still in demand. Look for Aerojet Rocketdyne press releases on the subject.

As I tried to explain, the main driver behind the demise of Delta II is the Air Force EELV contract. The System Performance Requirements Document (SPRD) contains "reference missions" which EELV entrants are supposed to be able to perform. The Delta II doesn't do any of these missions. The best NASA could do for Delta II is issue an IDIQ contract (indefinite delivery, indefinite quantity). Sadly, for those who have to make business decisions (even decisions for companies with yucky names), this is a terrible contract type, as you have to guess how many rockets are needed. Guess too low (and build too few) and your cost per rocket goes way up - which can in turn limit the number purchased.. Guess to high and buy too many parts and you can get left holding the proverbial bag.

At least we can agree we hope to see Delta II go out on top, which a successful launch of ICESAT.
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