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Old 03-06-2016, 05:12 AM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Default Acrylic paint query

Hello All,

I have three questions about clear acrylic spray paint as a “moisture-proofing” agent for model rockets flown on fields with damp grass (it won’t moisture-proof a whole rocket, of course—just the surfaces to which it is applied, -if- it does). This query was inspired by the following:

I recently bought one of SpaceX’s Falcon 9 and Fairing model rocket kits (see: https://shop.spacex.com/accessories...rocket-kit.html ), and I also had one sent as a gift to a British ex-pat friend of mine who lives in France. The environment in which he lives not uncommonly involves dry and cloudy (but calm) weather, sometimes with rather damp grass in the field where he flies model rockets, due to previous rains. (Having started in model rocketry last summer at age 71, he must be one of the oldest beginning model rocketeers.) Now:

The Falcon 9 kit is a “No painting required” model, and while its semi-gloss pre-applied paper body wrap provides some protection against moisture droplets, its large white payload shroud tube has no covering, so that a landing on damp grass would wet it. I’m admittedly very far “behind the curve” on *today’s* spray paint formulations (and I’ve seen sad postings here about clear enamel and/or clear lacquer spray paint reacting with previously-applied paint and making it run, or “frosting” decals [like hoarfrost on a window on a cold morning]), so I thought that clear acrylic spray paint might be a good alternative to use on the Falcon 9 model (although this presumption is based on information from Peter Alway’s book “The Art of Scale Model Rocketry,” which dates back to 1994--today's paints might be significantly different). My three questions are:

[1] Does *today’s* clear acrylic spray paint provide a good moisture barrier for model rockets that might land on damp grass?

[2] Will today’s clear acrylic formulations react with and perhaps ruin (via “frosting” it, etc.) a printed paper body wrap like the Falcon 9 model’s wrap?

[3] Will these clear acrylic paint formulations “frost” or otherwise “de-transparent-ize” clear polycarbonate fins? (The Falcon 9 kit uses such "invisible" fins; if necessary, they could be masked using paper and tape before the rocket is sprayed with clear acrylic paint.)

Many thanks in advance to anyone who can help! Others who purchase this kit will also benefit from such information.
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Old 03-06-2016, 02:42 PM
chrism chrism is offline
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One suggestion may to apply a coat of Pledge Multicare Floor Finish, formerly called Future. It is acrylic and when fully cured should provide a protective barrier against the wet grass. It shouldn't affect the wrap or clear parts. Some scale modelers dip aircraft canopies in Future to clarify the plastic. It may be available in France under a different name.

See this article:

http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html
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Old 03-06-2016, 07:16 PM
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I wrapped my payload fairing on my Falcon with White adhesive Ultrakote from my LHS. Admittedly, there's not much moisture around here, but it looks great, matches the wrap of the rest of the rocket and was completed in about 30 seconds.

Try it.
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Old 03-07-2016, 12:12 AM
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I swear by Krylon's line of UV-Resistant Acrylic Clears, available in Gloss and Matte. While I never thought to do a "dunk test" to check for waterproofing, I use them routinely to protect decals. Many of my builds are scale, and the paints I use are typically flats. I coat the final paint color with the Gloss, apply decals, and then use the Matte to return the flat finish.

My wife has started pencil sketching again, and we have tried Krylon's Fixative to seal the pencil drawing. It does not saturate the paper, you just cannot tell it has been applied. Krylon makes a bunch of clears, and Hobby Lobby has quite a few in their Art Dept. Several are used for archival protection of photos and the like. I use the 40% discount when I buy them.

Besides being expensive, I gave up on Testors clears in the little cans due to discoloration. After 3-4 years, my Orbital Transport looked like it had been off-roading and need to go thru the car wash! It was covered with a brownish haze, and it had only received indirect sunlight coming thru a window while it was displayed in my office.
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Old 03-07-2016, 10:17 PM
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I thank you all very much for your replies! (I would have replied last night, but couldn't view YORF then because of one of those odd system "hiccups" that sometimes afflict it; all I got was a blank white screen and an error message [and still learning my way around Windows 7, there is no "Refresh" button that I can see].) Also:

I'm a little leery of Pledge (especially on the unpainted payload fairing tube), not because I doubt its efficacy (I don't), but because I don't know if what he can get locally (he's in a rural area of southern France) would match Pledge's formula. (I will e-mail the Pledge article to him, though, because I could be totally wrong about the locally-available acrylic floor formulations.) In addition:

The Ultrakote option sounds intriguing! I've never used it (it sounds like Monokote model airplane covering), and I presume it's applied using an iron, but that it doesn't shrink much (at least not enough to squash the payload tube out of shape). Plus, I could mail it to him with no worries about it being prohibited for air shipment (and I'm curious about trying it, too). As well:

The Krylon clear acrylic sounds just as I'd hoped (and I've saved those decal/acrylic paint application tips [along with *all* of your replies])! It doesn't have to be water-proof, just water-resistant, so that droplets of moisture on the grass will just "bead" on the rocket's surface instead of soaking in. (Krylon may be available in France, but even if it isn't, I'm sure that a French [or other EU member state's] equivalent is available locally.) All three of these solutions sound very useful (for other rocket kits as well), and I'll relay all three of them [UPDATE: They're sent, as a link *and* copied-and-pasted text!] to him.
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Last edited by blackshire : 03-07-2016 at 10:44 PM.
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Old 03-07-2016, 10:43 PM
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Actually, no, its not the iron-on kind of UltraKote. Its a trim type with an adhesive and a backing that you peel off. It comes in rolls that are about 4" wide and 25 feet long ( I think). As I said I used it on my Falcon. I also experimented with it on an Alpha III body; it wasn't perfect but with some more practice, I could make it work.

UltraKote Trim is called something else in Europe but he should be able to find it. Or you could send him some very inexpensively. I don't remember how much a roll was when I bought it a couple of years ago, but it couldn't have been much.
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Old 03-07-2016, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB.
Actually, no, its not the iron-on kind of UltraKote. Its a trim type with an adhesive and a backing that you peel off. It comes in rolls that are about 4" wide and 25 feet long ( I think). As I said I used it on my Falcon. I also experimented with it on an Alpha III body; it wasn't perfect but with some more practice, I could make it work.

UltraKote Trim is called something else in Europe but he should be able to find it. Or you could send him some very inexpensively. I don't remember how much a roll was when I bought it a couple of years ago, but it couldn't have been much.
Thank you for clarifying that. The roll length is good, because he--and I--will have plenty of extra material to practice with on scrap body tubing (or paper towel core tubes) to get the technique down pat, before applying it to an actual model rocket.
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Old 03-08-2016, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB.
UltraKote Trim is called something else in Europe but he should be able to find it. Or you could send him some very inexpensively. I don't remember how much a roll was when I bought it a couple of years ago, but it couldn't have been much.

A few decades ago, Ultracote and its self adhesive trim counterpart was exclusively imported from Germany by Hobby Lobby International (not the chain) in Brentwood, TN and was called Oracover. Hobby Lobby International was the company to go to in the USA for Graupner sail planes, motors, TX/RC, mini/micro servos, etc. Later, Carl Goldberg was the first to use the Ultracote name that I know of, and sold the stuff as Carl Goldberg Ultracote. It is now licensed/distributed in the USA exclusively by Horizon Hobby. AFIK, it is still called Oracover and Orastick (self adhesive trim variety) and Profilm in Europe.
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Old 03-08-2016, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
A few decades ago, Ultracote and its self adhesive trim counterpart was exclusively imported from Germany by Hobby Lobby International (not the chain) in Brentwood, TN and was called Oracover. Hobby Lobby International was the company to go to in the USA for Graupner sail planes, motors, TX/RC, mini/micro servos, etc. Later, Carl Goldberg was the first to use the Ultracote name that I know of, and sold the stuff as Carl Goldberg Ultracote. It is now licensed/distributed in the USA exclusively by Horizon Hobby. AFIK, it is still called Oracover and Orastick (self adhesive trim variety) and Profilm in Europe.


Yeah, I stopped in at that place a time or two around the time Betty and I got married, back in the early 2000's... they used to have EVERYTHING (or so it seemed...) I was interested in electric park flyers at the time and finally got one, but then sorta lost interest when I got back into rockets...

Stopped in there a year or two ago and it was NOTHING like it used to be... seemed more like a second rate hobby shop...

Shame... Later! OL J R
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Old 03-08-2016, 11:33 PM
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Yes....Jim Martin, who founded Hobby Lobby there sold the business - I think it must be something like 10 years ago now. Sad, but he wanted to retire. The mail order side of things is now "Hobby Express" but it's nothing like Hobby Lobby International was "back in the day".

I loved working with Jim and Mike Hines and a few others there at HL on motors and speed controls and things back when AXi motors and Jeti speed controls from the Czech Republic were the price/performance leaders. Now with all the cheap stuff from China it's amazing that the Czech (and US) made stuff is even still in the electric airplane market.

Oracover was great stuff, albeit kind of heavy for small electrics....but great for 40-sized models. It certainly is easier to work with in many ways than MonoKote. Interesting idea using trim sheets to cover rockets. I'll have to think about that a bit.



.....sorry for furthering the thread drift, Jason......
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