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  #81  
Old 04-29-2011, 09:39 PM
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hcmbanjo hcmbanjo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dyaugo
That's why I believe that you should be proficient at all the techniques, because each methods offer something the others don't...just an extra tool in your tool belt...ya know?


You are right on the money!
Every kit (beyond three fins and a nose cone) will require different techniques.

to Scotty Dog:
Fill N" Finish or Carpenter's Wood Filler is just that - a filler.
Being it's water based, it doesn't seal the balsa.
Glues and even stain will permeate balsa filled with CWF. The filled wood isn't sealed until you shoot the primer.
(Stain will not permeate a dried white glue fillet.)
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  #82  
Old 04-30-2011, 10:04 PM
dyaugo dyaugo is offline
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The last couple days I went ahead and tried the Aerogloss "DOPE" method of treating balsa.

I cut a sample fin out of some scrap balsa I had laying around and treated it to two coats of Balsa Fillercoat Primer #70-4. I first sanded the fin with 320 and then 400 to smooth out the surface and remove any imperfections before applying the Balsa Fillercoat. I then sanded the second coat with 320 and applied a third. I allowed it to dry over night and came back in the morning sanded again using 400 this time. After I sanded the third coat I started to apply the Sanding Sealer #71-4 I applied three coats and sanded in between each coat after they had dried for 2-3 hrs. I started with 320 and work my down to 600 on the last coat. (320 1st, 400 2nd, 600 3rd)

I applied a few coats of Duplicolor HBP and the primer showed no imperfections...

I was really happy with the results and the process. I feel pretty comfortable using this method and depending on the type of kit and conditions I would use this method. I am going to be building the ESTES Screaming Eagle kit and I plan on using this method.

If I was building your standard 3 fin rocket I would skin the fins. Quick and easy and you can't argue about how strong it makes the fins.

If the rocket was large scale and big pieces of balsa and there were no small intricate parts I would probably go with the FnF or maybe skin some of the parts? Cost effective on larger rockets...

Bottom line. Perfect each method and you will be more versed in your techniques when prepping your model for primer and paint.

Last edited by dyaugo : 04-30-2011 at 11:08 PM.
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  #83  
Old 05-01-2011, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dyaugo
The last couple days I went ahead and tried the Aerogloss "DOPE" method of treating balsa.

I cut a sample fin out of some scrap balsa I had laying around and treated it to two coats of Balsa Fillercoat Primer #70-4. I first sanded the fin with 320 and then 400 to smooth out the surface and remove any imperfections before applying the Balsa Fillercoat. I then sanded the second coat with 320 and applied a third. I allowed it to dry over night and came back in the morning sanded again using 400 this time. After I sanded the third coat I started to apply the Sanding Sealer #71-4 I applied three coats and sanded in between each coat after they had dried for 2-3 hrs. I started with 320 and work my down to 600 on the last coat. (320 1st, 400 2nd, 600 3rd)

I applied a few coats of Duplicolor HBP and the primer showed no imperfections...

I was really happy with the results and the process. I feel pretty comfortable using this method and depending on the type of kit and conditions I would use this method. I am going to be building the ESTES Screaming Eagle kit and I plan on using this method.

If I was building your standard 3 fin rocket I would skin the fins. Quick and easy and you can't argue about how strong it makes the fins.

If the rocket was large scale and big pieces of balsa and there were no small intricate parts I would probably go with the FnF or maybe skin some of the parts? Cost effective on larger rockets...

Bottom line. Perfect each method and you will be more versed in your techniques when prepping your model for primer and paint.


Good observations.
I also want to add that one has to realize the Aerogloss Dope is fuel proof coating,thus the price tag for the formula. One has to ask themselves can i achieve the same finish after the paint is on, for the price in your range of project scope. Just one more added dimension to the matrix of possiblities... For myself, I live in Boston where i have to live without hobby shops that carry anything of specialty. Shipping costs being what they are, and the excellent product the FnF is for the scope of work i am involved, I never needed Dope. I used to use it a lot when i lived back home in Miami, 20 years ago when fuel was cheaper and 911 didn't happen yet, and hobby shops were everywhere. (Yikes--How naive we all were then). Getting back into the hobby, I cant say enough of FnF, with how much respect I have for Dope. It is safer, cheaper and I can get mirror finish after a base coat color ( white sand-able) primer. And it is surprisingly light; I would say equal to dope. So ask myself, do I need fuel proofing that is reserved for RC gas powered planes?
B/G rockets are a perfect example where dope would be ideal, No primer or even pigment would be needed just clear/ balsa filler or colored dope, so as to forgo primer base-coat, to keep the craft light.
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  #84  
Old 05-02-2011, 09:43 AM
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One of the largest reasons I still prefer Aero Gloss over any of the FnF water-based stuff is the mess factor.
I can sand dope-based fillers with a minimum of dust created.
Using FnF causes a massive amount of dust anytime I get a piece of sandpaper within a foot of the stuff.
I can sand Aero Gloss finished parts in my living room while watching TV. FnF strictly outside or in a shop.
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  #85  
Old 05-02-2011, 10:43 AM
dyaugo dyaugo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
One of the largest reasons I still prefer Aero Gloss over any of the FnF water-based stuff is the mess factor.
I can sand dope-based fillers with a minimum of dust created.
Using FnF causes a massive amount of dust anytime I get a piece of sandpaper within a foot of the stuff.
I can sand Aero Gloss finished parts in my living room while watching TV. FnF strictly outside or in a shop.


Absolutely less dust and mess. There's pros and cons to each method.
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  #86  
Old 05-02-2011, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
One of the largest reasons I still prefer Aero Gloss over any of the FnF water-based stuff is the mess factor.
I can sand dope-based fillers with a minimum of dust created.
Using FnF causes a massive amount of dust anytime I get a piece of sandpaper within a foot of the stuff.
I can sand Aero Gloss finished parts in my living room while watching TV. FnF strictly outside or in a shop.



I know what you mean. The first few times i notice this ' mess' factor but I worked out a simple system for myself so now its not a problem anymore. I simple use a sanding block of my preferred choice and sand the fins on each side flat on newspaper ( I use shopping circulars-- it might be the sheen of this type of newsprint that does it)
I sand and the stuff does not proliferate but settles directly around the fins. The fine powder does not stick to the newsprint and i proceed to fold and funnel into a rubbish bin next to me, the newsprint and powder react like teflon because there is no residue on the newspaper afterward, weird really. I repeat the process for each side of each fin. I use a brush to wisk off the fins--their is a little mess their but i do that part at the end briefly outside my kitchen door. I work in my living room, for its non toxic nature and I have no other place really in winter, and I no longer have dust problems as a bonus. That might make me a 'neat and tidy' individual, but hey, it works for me. I take each product for what it is, and see what I can do. I don't have bias for water or solvent base either way. They all have their pros and cons though solvents have serious cons if not handled safely. I still recommend masks for particulates, and nitril gloves and chemical masks for ketones. Their known to be a cause of cancer. Hey, who really can afford health problems?
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Last edited by Raygun : 05-02-2011 at 01:45 PM.
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  #87  
Old 05-02-2011, 01:13 PM
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Are you filling/sanding the fins before gluing to the tube ???
If so, you do realize the glue fillets are bonding to the sealer with much less strength than to the actual fin material being filleted and soaked with the glue into the grain, correct ?
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  #88  
Old 05-02-2011, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
Are you filling/sanding the fins before gluing to the tube ???
If so, you do realize the glue fillets are bonding to the sealer with much less strength than to the actual fin material being filleted and soaked with the glue into the grain, correct ?



Oh yes, learned that trick, wow, seems like forever ago. YEs i do sand and finish before gluing. I leave a bit of margin free of finish for filleting. I still do it to this day, regardless of new materials and formulas. Old good habits. I guess i do take the time to be detail oriented. I do no know if anyone does this too- I just never ask. After filleting, whatever grain might show through is sandable primer out. I am big on sanding to level out grain. I have has some very awesome Astron Sprints that demonstrate the blemish free joints without hint of grain. I realize not everyone is like this and, well I have shortcomings of my own in other areas of building. Paper transitions is still needs to be improved but i learned a lot there too. I just see other folks execute it flawlessly.
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Last edited by Raygun : 05-02-2011 at 01:47 PM.
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  #89  
Old 05-12-2011, 01:06 PM
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On simple builds I will build the rocket then apply my sealer and sand smooth. On more complicated designs I will seal the wood prior to gluing the wood to the rocket. It would be a major PITA to try and brush on sealer and sand it smooth with the rocket already built. I do have all kinds of sanding sticks, but still it would be tough. I have never, never , ever had a fin come off doing it this way. I still have to sand the tough areas after the primer is applied, but I am only sanding once, not over and over.
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