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  #241  
Old 03-11-2016, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgegassaway
So, use a SOLVENT glue that bonds to ABS as well as to Styrene. The one that I finally found that works is Plastructís Plastic-Weld (Glass bottle, orange label). It is a low-viscosity (watery) type solvent (melts plastic together) glue (MEK based), that works with ABS, Styrene, Acrylic, and some other plastics. I know this works. If you use anything else, TEST on ABS to see if it melts the plastic (test on a small area on the underside of the ABS corrugated wrap, under where a fin will go.


I only have Tenax 7r here right now. It's methylene chloride, IIRC. By the time I drive 80 miles round trip or pay shipping for a small hobby bottle, I will end up paying as much or more for it than a small can of straight MEK from the local hardware store. I don't have time to start on the model right now, but I may go ahead and do some testing.


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  #242  
Old 03-11-2016, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
I only have Tenax 7r here right now. It's methylene chloride, IIRC.


FWIW - the bottle of "Bondene", which is totally useless for ABS (this kit's wrap anyway), lists "Dichloromethane" as the only named chemical on the label.
Quote:
Methylene chloride, also called dichloromethane, is a volatile, colorless liquid with a chloroform-like odor.

So I would not dare to trust Tenax without doing a test like I mentioned, on the underside of the kit's ABS wrap to see if it feels "sticky" from melting.... or not sticky (worthless/dangerous).

Actually,l are you sure Tenax 7r is methylene chloride? I can't find a definitive "official" source for what its main ingredient is. A person says MEK, but that's not official. If you do have a bottle, please read what the label say it uses.

Plastic Weld labels says it uses MEK, and bondene uses Dichloromethane.

OK, I later found other sources saying that Teanx IS made of methylene chloride / dichloromethane.

A commenter on a model train forum said "My experience with Tenax has been best summed up with "Spit and water holds together better than that"."
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Last edited by georgegassaway : 03-11-2016 at 02:48 PM.
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  #243  
Old 03-11-2016, 04:11 PM
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Tenax-7R was the glue I used to assembly the 8 Little Joe II kits I built. In fact I only used CA on a couple of the models to attach the fins to see how it would hold up. I also used CA glue in a couple places on the wrap to hold down the ends.


That Glue Tube graphic Estes uses in the instruction manuals a generic symbol to represent all plastic glues. Hopefully I can get specific name brand glues to be mentioned in the instruction manual for any additional Little Joe II kit productions, the Saturn V kit and any other models that may come out in the future that uses a vacuum form wrap or parts.

John Boren
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  #244  
Old 03-11-2016, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgegassaway
Actually,l are you sure Tenax 7r is methylene chloride? I can't find a definitive "official" source for what its main ingredient is.


They don't list the ingredients on the bottle. I'd have to get hold of an MSDS sheet to be 100% sure, but I believe it's near pure methylene chloride (dichloromethane).

Quote:
A commenter on a model train forum said "My experience with Tenax has been best summed up with "Spit and water holds together better than that"."


It has always worked well for me on styrene, but it doesn't work like the old style Testor's tube cement of the 70's if there are gaps to be filled. The parts have to fit really well and you let it wick in. If you need to fill gaps, you have to dissolve styrene shavings in it, which worked great on my Maxi V-2 fins when I had a spot or two that didn't fit perfectly.
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  #245  
Old 03-11-2016, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpJet
Tenax-7R was the glue I used to assembly the 8 Little Joe II kits I built. In fact I only used CA on a couple of the models to attach the fins to see how it would hold up. I also used CA glue in a couple places on the wrap to hold down the ends.


That Glue Tube graphic Estes uses in the instruction manuals a generic symbol to represent all plastic glues. Hopefully I can get specific name brand glues to be mentioned in the instruction manual for any additional Little Joe II kit productions, the Saturn V kit and any other models that may come out in the future that uses a vacuum form wrap or parts.

John Boren
That's a good idea--Thank You! That specific glue information need not be incorporated into the actual kit instructions, but could be printed on a "Glue Suggestions Addenda Sheet" that could be included with the instructions. It could identify the general glue types (the glue type descriptions in Stuart Lodge's "The Model Rocketry Handbook" and G. Harry Stine's "Handbook of Model Rocketry" would be good sources), then mention specific brand names. The "Glue Suggestions Addenda Sheet" could be updated as needed over time, as new glue brand names appear.
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  #246  
Old 03-12-2016, 11:39 AM
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Deluxe Materials, a UK based company that specializes in glues and other products has different adhesives that may work on the dissimilar plastics on the LJII and other rockets. The only problem is the products can be hard to find here.

https://www.deluxematerials.co.uk/en/
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  #247  
Old 03-12-2016, 10:58 PM
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Tenax 7R is Dichloromethane AKA Methylene Chloride in it's latest form.
I believe it used to be a Perchloroethane/Methylene Chloride blend. The older formula was a little more user friendly in that it took a little longer to dry and penetrated just as well.
OLD formula Testors Liquid Plastic Cement was a 70% MIBK (Methyl Iso-Butyl Ketone)/30% MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone) blend and worked REALLY well.
New formula Testors Liquid Plastic Cement is JUNK 100% MEK that takes forever to dry and does not bond very well.
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  #248  
Old 03-12-2016, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
Tenax 7R is Dichloromethane AKA Methylene Chloride in it's latest form.
I believe it used to be a Perchloroethane/Methylene Chloride blend. The older formula was a little more user friendly in that it took a little longer to dry and penetrated just as well.
OLD formula Testors Liquid Plastic Cement was a 70% MIBK (Methyl Iso-Butyl Ketone)/30% MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone) blend and worked REALLY well.
New formula Testors Liquid Plastic Cement is JUNK 100% MEK that takes forever to dry and does not bond very well.
I must, sadly, agree with you (I'm not sad about agreeing, but about the new--but NOT improved--Testors Liquid Plastic Cement). I built an Estes Lucky Seven X-Prize kit using it, and it took days for the fume scent to finally subside (the old formula wasn't detectable after just a few hours). Also:

The UK firm, Deluxe Materials, that chrism suggested above not only has numerous specialty bonding agents (and they attend the Toledo Hobby Show, too!), but they also sell fine-line applicator bottles & tips, which could be useful for building the Little Joe II as well as other scale kits.
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