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  #1  
Old 10-01-2017, 11:21 AM
Jerry Irvine's Avatar
Jerry Irvine Jerry Irvine is offline
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Default Regulatory reduction

Model rockets (MR, LMR, HPR) are in fact model aircraft. Ask the AMA. They operate only in air.

http://www.modelretailer.com/en/The...unlawful .aspx

Jerry

Last edited by Jerry Irvine : 10-01-2017 at 02:30 PM.
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  #2  
Old 10-01-2017, 02:42 PM
Jerry Irvine's Avatar
Jerry Irvine Jerry Irvine is offline
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I sent this to the current 2017 NAR President today:

Quote:
Originally Posted by email from Jerry Irvine
http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?p=216696#post216696

Deregulate!

The DOT did a test on AT product at the PA office over a decade ago and ruled the material was not subject to HMR.

Zero hazmat.

Jerry

I add:

http://v-serv.com/usr/FS-holygrail.jpg

http://amablog.modelaircraft.org/me...-model-rockets/

Last edited by Jerry Irvine : 10-01-2017 at 03:12 PM.
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  #3  
Old 10-02-2017, 01:47 PM
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Default You would think they would also look at...

...all the motors that have been safely shipped over the decades. It really seems like it should be a non-issue to the DOT.
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  #4  
Old 10-02-2017, 05:49 PM
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Jerry Irvine Jerry Irvine is offline
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Correct. But they also pass the Flammable Solid 4.1 threshold into unregulated materials. Oops.
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Old 10-04-2017, 09:52 PM
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Just ship 'em (after carefully wrapping them) in honey. The Palestinians have smuggled ordnance--including of the rocket-propelled variety--that way for years, and the reluctance of border officials to open such containers and search through the sticky stuff works to their advantage...
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  #6  
Old 10-05-2017, 01:21 PM
falingtrea falingtrea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Irvine
Model rockets (MR, LMR, HPR) are in fact model aircraft. Ask the AMA. They operate only in air.

http://www.modelretailer.com/en/The...unlawful .aspx

Jerry


A model aircraft is defined as an unmanned aircraft that:

capable of sustained flight in the atmosphere
flown within visual line of sight of the person operating the aircraft
flown for hobby or recreational purposes.

The second point is probably where the FAA will take it. I think most of the issues with drones in airspace has been when they are flown out of line of sight.

Also model rockets have a major portion of their flight profile fall outside the "sustained flight" definition. Sorry Jerry.
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  #7  
Old 10-05-2017, 02:37 PM
Jerry Irvine's Avatar
Jerry Irvine Jerry Irvine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falingtrea
A model aircraft is defined as an unmanned aircraft that:

capable of sustained flight in the atmosphere
flown within visual line of sight of the person operating the aircraft
flown for hobby or recreational purposes.

The second point is probably where the FAA will take it. I think most of the issues with drones in airspace has been when they are flown out of line of sight.

Also model rockets have a major portion of their flight profile fall outside the "sustained flight" definition. Sorry Jerry.
A PARACHUTE CONSTITUTES SUSTAINED FLIGHT. A ROCKET IS MORE VERTICAL THAN HORIZONTAL AND AN AIRPLANE IS MORE HORIZONTAL AND EVEN MORE SUSTAINED (sometimes: have you ever seen a rocket thermal away?). BUT A ROCKET IS SUSTAINED TO THE DEGREE NECESSARY TO TRIGGER THE RULE OF EXEMPTION AND YOU KNOW IT.

My NAR number is half yours BTW. Oh, and you are a lapdog for overregulation. That is a mere characterization.

Last edited by Jerry Irvine : 10-05-2017 at 02:58 PM.
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  #8  
Old 10-06-2017, 06:15 AM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Irvine
A PARACHUTE CONSTITUTES SUSTAINED FLIGHT. A ROCKET IS MORE VERTICAL THAN HORIZONTAL AND AN AIRPLANE IS MORE HORIZONTAL AND EVEN MORE SUSTAINED (sometimes: have you ever seen a rocket thermal away?). BUT A ROCKET IS SUSTAINED TO THE DEGREE NECESSARY TO TRIGGER THE RULE OF EXEMPTION AND YOU KNOW IT.

My NAR number is half yours BTW. Oh, and you are a lapdog for overregulation. That is a mere characterization.
Not to get Clintonian, but the legal definition of "sustained flight" (and even just "flight") may be involved here. (It might not be as obvious as most people think. A disabled veteran friend of mine, whose late wife needed help as her health crashed, was surprised at how her aid applications were so frequently rejected, despite plentiful medical proof of her deteriorating condition. Consulting "Black's Law Dictionary," he found that many common words that have certain meanings to most people have quite different meanings in a legal context. This knowledge enabled him to help her select the correct "magic words" that the state and federal aid agencies were looking for on applications, which enabled her to get aid.) Regarding what is and is not considered "sustained flight":

The most obvious "lay definition" of "sustained flight" is engine-driven (by means of a propeller, ducted fan, gas turbine, rocket [Jetex or Rapier], or rotor), aerodynamic lift-supported flight. But in addition to un-powered sailplanes and gliders (including model rocket boost-gliders and rocket gliders), aerostatic lift is also used by some model aircraft, such as F/F (Free-Flight) and even R/C (Radio-Control) model hot-air balloons (F/F ones usually have tissue paper envelopes and short burn-time alcohol burners, while R/C ones--which are often scale models--have fabric envelopes and radio-controlled miniature propane burners. Gas-filled R/C model airships (blimps, and even occasional rigid-framed model Zeppelins) are also built and flown, and:

"Sustained flight" might also legally encompass semi-ballistic (also called quasi-ballistic) flight, which is found in both the full-scale and scale model fields. Quasi-ballistic missiles fly at high velocity within the atmosphere and can either fly ballistic trajectories (often low, flat, depressed trajectories), or can utilize their velocity and the atmosphere in order to make "energy maneuvers" to evade defenses and/or strike targets that lie far from a ballistic flight ground track (the USAF's air-launched SRAM--Short-Range Attack Missile--could even turn to strike targets *behind* it; the ground-launched Russian Iskander is also a quasi-ballistic missile. R/C boost-gliders and R/C rocket gliders, which can be radio-controlled during powered flight, are also quasi-ballistic flying vehicles during powered flight (and afterward, in the case of such models that have deployable or unfolding wings, until their wings deploy).
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http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
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  #9  
Old 10-06-2017, 07:23 AM
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Blackshire's right. It doesn't matter what we think, it's what does the government think. And he's dead-on about "magic words."

Jerry, what exactly is the FAA definition of sustained flight?

Distance? Time? Control?

Not what do you think it is, what does the regulation say. Or give me a USC or CFR citation and I'll look it up and post it here.
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  #10  
Old 10-06-2017, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Irvine
My NAR number is half yours BTW.

LOLOLOL... Jerry's highest qualification.
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