Hey there... I'm new to the forum here. I used to do rockets about 15 years ago... gave it up. My girlfriend likes to do crafts with me, so I thought "Why not a rocket?"

So I ordered an Estetes "High Flier" and the site I got it from had a list of engines... Apparently there are these new "Reloadable" engines made by "Aerotech" that would make my rocket go to 6 tenths of a mile! Wow! I'm sure you guys know all about these things but they're new to me.

So I get the rocket and the engines and it appears that there is some sort of engine casing that's not included? I don't get it. Do I need something else? The Engine reloads are 18mm and so is the cardboard engine mount in my rocket. Is this engine casing required? If so, how does it fit in my rocket? The website I ordered from never mentioned a motor casing.

Thanks in advance everyone!

Sounds like you just got the reload kit. You need to buy the RMS system which is the casing for the reload. The casing contains the burn so it provides thrust out the nozzle so your rocket doesn't become a flaming mess. They come in different sizes, 18mm, 24mm, 29mm and on up. The 18mm reloads are normally D impulse. If you're planning on using it in your High Flier, need to check and make sure you don't have to add any nose weight to keep it stable.

I don't know where you got the reload from but they probably sell the casing too. You can always check E-Bay and Rocketry On-line (http://rocketryonline.com/) auctions and might be able to pick one up cheaper.

Don
NAR 53455

If you want to use Aerotech reloadable (RMS) engines, then yes a case is required.
They are made in sizes from 18mm all the way up to 98mm (yes, 98mm for M and N motors).
For your rocket you would need the RMS 18-20 (the first number is the case diameter, second number is total possible max impulse for the casing). this casing is around $35.00.
Reloads for this case are fairly limited; there is one White Lightning "D" and one "Blue Thunder" D offered for this case; these reloads are sold 3 per package. In the past, there were loads from B all the way up to a 22 n/sec "baby" E for this case, but unfortunately only the 2 "D" loads remain.
The Aerotech "Hobby" RMS line also includes the 24/40 case (which is the size of an Estes "D" but features loads all the way up to a small 55n-sec "F"), and the 29-40/120 which is 29mm and takes loads up to a 120n-sec "medium size" G engine.
The cases larger than this (longer 29mm cases, all 38mm, all 54mm, all 75mm, and all 98mm) are High Power Rocketry (HPR) cases for H class and above engines and require High Power Certification to fly.
Reloadable engines use different propellant than the common black-powder Estes engines...they use an Ammonium Perchlorate+binder/fuel based propellant that is very similar to the fuel used in the Space Shuttle SRBs.

One thing to keep in mind....the Estes HiFlier WILL go out of sight (over 1500 feet !) on a common Estes C6-7 with the most likely result being loss of the rocket. Use of an Aerotech RMS18 "D" engine (that has OVER twice the power of a C6-7) will ENSURE you lose not only the rocket but also an expensive $35 reloadable engine casing due to the around 3200ft altitude.....a 12" rocket can barely be seen at 1000' let alone 3200' !
The Aerotech RMS18 is great for either heavy for size rockets such as the old Estes Space Shuttle, and also for high frontal drag 18mm rockets such as the Estes Fat Boy.
The RMS18 is best used for rockets that you wished you built with a 24mm "D" size engine mount, but for some reason did not.

__________________
When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !
Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC !

And how! Go ahead and sacrifice the Hi Flier on a C6-7. I've helped search for a ton of lost casings over the years, so I can tell you that your chances of finding everything are slim. Go ahead and build the Flier, but leave the engine hook off, put an engine block in and friction fit it with masking tape. It'll at least be a cheap loss.

__________________
Bill Eichelberger
NAR 79563

http://wallyum.blogspot.com/

I miss being SAM 0058

Build floor: Centuri Design Contest F-150 Hurricane Estes - Low Boom SST Semroc - Marauder, Shrike, SST Shuttle

In paint: Canaroc Starfighter Scorpion Estes F-22 Air Superiority Fighter, Multi-Roc, Solar Sailer II Semroc Cyber III

Ready to fly: Estes - Solar Sailer II Semroc - Earmark, Groonie Der V 1/2

Ok, you want me to get a C6-7? I can do that... But why am I removing the hook?

Friction fit the engine mount? Wont it go shooting out the back of the rocket when it deploys the parchute?!?!?

If you want any hopes of getting this one back in anything other than a HUGE flying area with zero wind, I'd reccommend flying first on an A8-3 or A8-5, then maybe a B4-4, B6-4, or B6-6.
Flying it on a C (let alone ANY Aerotech reloadable) most likely will result in loss of the rocket.
Unless your goal is to sacrifice this one to the rocket gods, avoid C engines.
If you just absolutely must use a C engine for machismo reasons or something, replace the parachute with a 6 to 8 foot length Crepe Paper streamer that you tie the shock cord around.
That way, recovery will be within a MILE of the launch pad.

__________________
When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !
Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC !

It's ugly and it will eventually rip down the side of the rocket as a result of the overly enthusiastic Estes ejection charges. My son built a Sizzler back in 2001 and this was its fate. As long as you tape the engine in place securely, it'll hold.

__________________
Bill Eichelberger
NAR 79563

http://wallyum.blogspot.com/

I miss being SAM 0058

Build floor: Centuri Design Contest F-150 Hurricane Estes - Low Boom SST Semroc - Marauder, Shrike, SST Shuttle

In paint: Canaroc Starfighter Scorpion Estes F-22 Air Superiority Fighter, Multi-Roc, Solar Sailer II Semroc Cyber III

Ready to fly: Estes - Solar Sailer II Semroc - Earmark, Groonie Der V 1/2

Read Bill Eichelberger's reply first, then...

He means you should friction fit the motor into the rocket, not to friction fit the motor mount.

Without knowing ahead of time that this is Bill's preferred way of building Hi-Fliers, I built mine exactly the way he suggests. The motor hangs 1/4" to 1/2" out the back end of the rocket. A single wrap of masking tape around the motor and rocket keeps it in there nicely.

Also, I lost my Hi-Flier by launching it on an Estes C6 motor. This rocket flies really high on both A8 and B6 motors, and irretrievably high (at least in my case) on C6's.

__________________
John Thro, NAR #84553 SR
I was too old when I started! Now I'll *never* become a BAR!

Charlie,

That Hi Flier would also fly to about 700' on the even-smaller A3-4T motor. It's a very lightweight design, generally called a "minimal diameter" rocket because the motor mount tube is also the main body tube.

An alternate method of retaining the motor is to wrap masking tape around the motor before inserting it into the tube. That's what "friction fit" means -- there is enough friction between the motor and the tube to prevent the motor from being blown out the back end. Keep in mind that the nose cone and all the laundry -- the streamer or parachute, and the flameproof wadding -- need to freely be able to come out when the motor fires the deployment charge. The idea is, there is more friction holding the motor in place than what holds the nose cone in place. Once the nose cone blows off, the pressure will continue relieving itself in that direction.

The motor hook on that model is completely unnescessary, and should never have been included in the first place. When I built mine, I eliminated it and the mylar ring that slides over it, and carefully cut the fins to fill those gaps. Go back through the Ninfinger archives and look at some of the older designs, like the Laser, the Astro, the Zipper (aka Blue Star), the Sunbird... NONE of those designs used a hook. Friction fit is actually the earliest method of motor retention -- the hook was introduced later, possibly even with the Alpha.

One strong recommendation about the Hi Flier: Don't use the parachute! Change that to a 1" x 10", or 1.5" x 15" streamer instead. A parachute is a guaranteed drift-away in any wind condition other than dead-calm. Also, resist the temptation to use the "C" or even "B" motors. Use the A8-5. A RockSim test shows you can easily reach 600' with this motor, and the deployment speed will be less than 3 FPS (very gentle!).

__________________
Craig McGraw

BARCLONE Rocketry -- http://barclone.rocketshoppe.com
BARCLONE Blogsite -- http://barclone.wordpress.com
BARCLONE Forum -- BARCLONE Forum

BARs helping BARs

SAM 0044
AMA 352635

It came with a Steamer... not a parachute...

I got a B6-4

4 second delay ok you think?