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  #1  
Old 04-20-2016, 07:04 AM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Default Spaceplanes...

Hello All,

Looking through YouTube, I've come across several proposed spaceplane designs that would make interesting Concept Scale model rockets. They are as follows:

A future concept for a maglev-launched passenger spaceplane, as well as a flight test article for Japan's cancelled HOPE (ESA's cancelled Hermes spaceplane is also shown briefly) is shown in this video, which is titled "Spaceplanes" (see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7s8c4aQQSg )--it also shows unusual footage from Space Shuttle missions, including rarely-seen engineering camera views. Also:

The Andrews Space http://www.spaceflight.com/ Gryphon spaceplane can be seen here (see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH_gQQS7XEk ), and here is their Peregrine design (see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJ0...AA75A01A0A0A86C ). Plus, although this vehicle (see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ukz...AvD_X-hU1Vvm-KQ ) isn't a spaceplane, t/Space's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T/Space QuickReach/CXV vehicle was designed to be air-launched using a unique separation method that wouldn't require the launch aircraft to fly a "zoom" profile. Its booster, designed by AirLaunch LLC (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirLaunch [this article contains additional links]), was a simple, self-pressurized two-stage LOX/propane powered vehicle.
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  #2  
Old 10-08-2016, 02:55 PM
tab28682 tab28682 is offline
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Speaking of spaceplanes.

I am always on the lookout for an interesting spaceplane to model.

Tbis past summer I whipped up a semi scale version of the proposed Black Horse spaceplane.

I wanted something quick to build to try out a batch of AT 18mm D2.3 reloads. I had always liked the look of the Black Horse concept.

Mine has fairly correct wing and vertical tail shapes, with a hugely simplified fuse. Model is nearly 100% built from Depron foam of various thicknesses with a touch of carbon fiber and ply. Length is about 20" and span is about 19". All up weight on the pad is 5.3-5.4 oz.

Turned out to be a fun and very nice flying model.
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  #3  
Old 10-09-2016, 01:43 AM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tab28682
Speaking of spaceplanes.

I am always on the lookout for an interesting spaceplane to model.

Tbis past summer I whipped up a semi scale version of the proposed Black Horse spaceplane.

I wanted something quick to build to try out a batch of AT 18mm D2.3 reloads. I had always liked the look of the Black Horse concept.

Mine has fairly correct wing and vertical tail shapes, with a hugely simplified fuse. Model is nearly 100% built from Depron foam of various thicknesses with a touch of carbon fiber and ply. Length is about 20" and span is about 19". All up weight on the pad is 5.3-5.4 oz.

Turned out to be a fun and very nice flying model.
I thoroughly approve of the name, for obvious reasons... :-) If you're a member of RC Groups www.rcgroups.com , the members of their "Rocketry" sub-forum (see: http://www.rcgroups.com/rocketry-242/ ), which covers--as its description says--"Model rockets and rocket powered R/C aircraft," would also welcome a posting about your model. It would also, I think, make a good slope soaring glider (delta-winged slope gliders are not common, and most are high-wind machines) for light-wind conditions, given its mass; RC Groups' "Slope" sub-forum is here: http://www.rcgroups.com/slope-97/ . Also, T.W.I.T.T. ("The Wing Is The Thing," a full-scale and model tailless and flying wing aircraft enthusiast/advocacy group of which I am a member [see: http://www.twitt.org/ ]) would be interested in running an article on your Black Horse scale model in the T.W.I.T.T. Newsletter (they're a bit short on new material at the moment). In addition:

I've hoped that the actual Black Horse vehicle, or an improved iteration of its design, would get built. Analysis showed that it could even--via in-flight propellant transfer between two Black Horse spaceplanes in suborbital flight, with one serving as a tanker--enable the re-fueled Black Horse to achieve orbit with substantial payloads. (This operation would be essentially Tsiolkovsky's original concept for rocket staging, where four strapped-together rockets would be launched. After all four had burned half of their propellant, two of the rockets would re-fill the other two rockets' tanks, with this process being repeated again so that one of these two remaining rockets would reach orbit. In actuality, this transfer pumping would occur continuously in flight at an appropriate propellant transfer rate. Russia's Angara will incorporate this staging method in later vehicles, and SpaceX may eventually use it in the Falcon Heavy.)
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http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
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Old 10-09-2016, 10:46 AM
tab28682 tab28682 is offline
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I post often on RC Groups under the name Thomas B and post from time to time in rocket glider thread there. Also familiar with TWITT and had an article in their newsletter about my 11 foot wingspan RC flying wing design called Wingmaster back in the 1990s.

It is a shame that the Black Horse project never became reality. There are some interesting tidbits about the roots of the design in the Daniel Rayner biography, Living in the Future.

I have scaled up my smallish Black Horse about 40% to build another one suitable for the AT 24mm RMS-RC E6 reload. Have a few other models ahead of it, though.
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  #5  
Old 10-09-2016, 11:03 PM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tab28682
I post often on RC Groups under the name Thomas B and post from time to time in rocket glider thread there. Also familiar with TWITT and had an article in their newsletter about my 11 foot wingspan RC flying wing design called Wingmaster back in the 1990s.

It is a shame that the Black Horse project never became reality. There are some interesting tidbits about the roots of the design in the Daniel Rayner biography, Living in the Future.

I have scaled up my smallish Black Horse about 40% to build another one suitable for the AT 24mm RMS-RC E6 reload. Have a few other models ahead of it, though.
Good! Do you recall which T.W.I.T.T. Newsletter issue featured the Wingmaster? (My membership was sporadic back then, so I could easily have missed that issue.)

The USAF is still moving forward with spaceplane development, although they now favor vertically-launched, TSTO (Two-Stage-To-Orbit) systems that are similar to the 1971 Phase B Space Shuttle designs, but smaller.
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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
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  #6  
Old 10-10-2016, 09:44 AM
tab28682 tab28682 is offline
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The Wingmaster was in the TWITT newsletter somewhere around 1992, plus or minus a year or two.
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  #7  
Old 10-10-2016, 11:30 AM
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No spaceplanes!
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  #8  
Old 10-10-2016, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
Good! Do you recall which T.W.I.T.T. Newsletter issue featured the Wingmaster? (My membership was sporadic back then, so I could easily have missed that issue.)

The USAF is still moving forward with spaceplane development, although they now favor vertically-launched, TSTO (Two-Stage-To-Orbit) systems that are similar to the 1971 Phase B Space Shuttle designs, but smaller.

How does it compare to the early designs before everybody wanted it to tote a Greyhound bus full of lead?
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Old 10-10-2016, 09:57 PM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tab28682
The Wingmaster was in the TWITT newsletter somewhere around 1992, plus or minus a year or two.
Thank you! I can easily search through their online issues for that year to find it.
__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR
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  #10  
Old 10-10-2016, 10:09 PM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Irvine
No spaceplanes!
Why? They need not even compete directly with VTOVL vehicles. The first stage need not be winged; it could be a VTOVL (Vertical Take-Off, Vertical Landing) ballistic rocket (powered by liquid or hybrid propellant motors) that would "back down" to land on footpad-equipped landing legs. The USAF is mainly interested in winged upper stages that have significant re-entry crossrange, for some types of missions. For orbiting heavier payloads (where payload return or re-entry crossrange aren't important factors), a reusable VTOVL upper stage could be substituted for the spaceplane.
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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR
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