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Old 10-20-2014, 12:05 AM
K'Tesh's Avatar
K'Tesh K'Tesh is offline
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Cool 29mm, 2.5" Estes PSII Cherokee D Upscale...

[EDIT] This has been copied from TRF, so the dates are a smidge off [/EDIT]

If you remember, last year, I reported my safety concerns with the Estes Porta Pad E, and in my later conversations with Estes (around Valentine's Day), I dropped that I was interested in picking up an Argent. I also told Mary the reason I wasn't ordering the rockets I wanted because of the way the sale was being run (different rockets on different days, S/H was prohibitive). The next day, the sale opened up, and everything that was going to be on sale now was on sale (and they've done it that way since).

Seeing my opportunity to score an Argent, I ordered one, and unknown to me at the time, Estes sent me one as a thank you. The gift arrived first, and was in pristine condition, however the order was pretty well thrashed by the time it arrived.



Of course, the damage was done to the upper side of the fin can's body tube, so there'd be no hiding it. However, it could be cut off, but what to do with the remainder?

I advised Estes, and was surprised to receive a 2nd (complete) order (I was expecting them just to be send a body tube). Oh boy! Now I have 3 Argents (one damaged). However, the 3rd Argent's transition was defective (warped due to uneven cooling). I told Estes about this (and advised them that I didn't need a 4th Argent). So, they sent me just the replacement transition. Now I've got all these parts. Hmmm, what to do with them.

I also picked up a Partizon, and in looking at that, I was reminded of how closely it resembles a streatched version of the Cherokee D. Hmmm

I was able to cut down the damaged body tube, and with a 2.5" nosecone that I ordered from Estes, I've begun making a Pro Series II 2.5" Cherokee D (long version).

The motor tube was built and installed some time ago, but the project languished for some time. In a rush to build it, I somehow got the scale of the fins wrong. Instead of the 187.97% increase (yielding fins that are 7" at the root). I think I messed up a BT-60 build with the BT-55 and printed a fin layout that was only 5.XX" long. Annoyed, I set it down for a while, and went on with several other builds.

Well, that's in the past. Last weekend, a cleaning of my building area turned up the 7" fin pattern. Today, I have the materials, and some time to work on it. So, the fins have been cut out, and are now fitted to the tube. I've got a fin guide made, and things are progressing. I've had to slot the tube for the longer fins (thus supporting them better), but the middle section between the top centering ring, and the middle centering ring will not be able to be filleted.

Seems to me that this would be the perfect modification to a Partizon, as its nosecone (9.75" long) is a close match to the Cherokee D's PNC-55AC in upscaled length (10.15").

Decals are Stickershock. All other parts are Estes, except for the baffle, and the fins.

I'll be building this as a zipperless design, parting just under the wide wrap.

Cherokee D (Long Version)
Overall Length 23.403"
Nosecone Length 5.403" (Estes PNC-55AC)
Body Tube Length 18"
Diameter 1.33" (Estes BT-55)

Cherokee D (Long) (187.97% upscale)
Overall Length 43.948"
Nosecone Length 9.75" (072413 - Pro Series II™ 2.5" Plastic Nose Cone)
Body Tube Length 34.125"
Upper 10.25"
Mid 15.5"
Fin Can 8.375"
Diameter 2.5" (Estes Pro Series II 2.5")

FYI, if you want to make the short version, here's the info I've got...

Cherokee D (Short Version)
Designed by: Gene Street
Overall Length 21.753"
Nosecone Length 5.403" (Estes PNC-55AC)
Body Tube Length 16.35"
Diameter 1.33" (Estes BT-55)

Cherokee D (Short) (187.97% upscale)
Overall Length 40.48"
Nosecone Length 9.75" (072413 - Pro Series II™ 2.5" Plastic Nose Cone)
Body Tube Length 30.73"
Upper 6.855"
Mid 15.5"
Fin Can 8.375"
Diameter 2.5" (Estes Pro Series II 2.5")



More to come...
Jim
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Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).

"The Guide says there is an art to flying", said Ford, "or rather a knack."
"The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."


Launching is Optional... Landing? That Depends on Trees.

Last edited by K'Tesh : 10-23-2014 at 12:28 AM.
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  #2  
Old 10-20-2014, 12:09 AM
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K'Tesh K'Tesh is offline
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So, today, I glued the fin pattern to one of the sheets of birch (aircraft) ply, then drilled and pinned it to the other two sheets that will form the fins. To help keep the sheets of ply together, I tacked them together with a few small drops of medium thickness CA.





After the fins were cut out with my Dremel scroll saw, I sanded the edges smooth with 150, then 220 grit. Next, I measured the tabs, and lengthened the slots for the longer tabs. While doing that, I found that I needed to add a 2nd notch to the fins to allow for the uppermost centering ring. After cutting that, I discovered that the tabs I made were too long (my 7" pattern was a blown up photocopy of the fin based on the 5.XX" fin). So, I had to trim down the root edge. That done (and a little sanding to make sure that the pieces fit together nicely) I test fit the pieces together.



Which brings me to this point...




I've printed the fin guide I created from payloadbay.com, glued it to a piece of foam core, and if I had the fins papered, I'd be ready to glue them in place.
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Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).

"The Guide says there is an art to flying", said Ford, "or rather a knack."
"The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."


Launching is Optional... Landing? That Depends on Trees.
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  #3  
Old 10-20-2014, 12:09 AM
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K'Tesh K'Tesh is offline
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Yesterday, I managed to paper the fins, glue them on, and seal up the fin can. Today, I've glued the fin can to the airframe, started on the external fillets, and added the aft rail button (which will be white).



A practice that I've started doing to my larger rockets that are likely to come down on their body tubes (instead of their fins) is to glue in a ring of coupler material, or scrap body tube to thicken the rear of the rocket.

I've also taken to gluing on a scrap of ply or bass wood to the area were the aft rail button will screw into (prevents the screw from blowing out the wood).


One change that I'm planning on is to change the convention of changing of the name of the rocket based on the motor (e.g. Cherokee C, Cherokee M, etc.). To me, a Cherokee D should always be a Cherokee D. It doesn't matter if the rocket is powered by a 1/4A motor or an O motor. IMHO it's the "D Power" decal that should change. Instead of specifying a single size of motor (C, D, or whatever) it should indicate the diameter of the motor tube. So, you can expect to see that this one will still say Cherokee D, but it'll be "29mm Powered". Hopefully I'll get a sample to share from Mark soon.


Next, I'll have to build one of my baffles, glue the retainer on, and figure out how/where I'm going to mount the forward rail button.


Plans are that I'll build this with the PSII 24" parachute (after verifying that all the shrouds are secure... I've heard stories).
__________________
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Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).

"The Guide says there is an art to flying", said Ford, "or rather a knack."
"The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."


Launching is Optional... Landing? That Depends on Trees.

Last edited by K'Tesh : 10-22-2014 at 01:38 AM.
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  #4  
Old 10-20-2014, 01:52 AM
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K'Tesh K'Tesh is offline
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Here's my .ork file and rendering of the build. I'm not 100% certain on the fins. To make mine, I printed an image of the real fins, then blew them up to the correct scale.

Attached Files
File Type: ork Estes Pro Series II Cherokee D 2.5in.ork (2.5 KB, 15 views)
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Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).

"The Guide says there is an art to flying", said Ford, "or rather a knack."
"The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."


Launching is Optional... Landing? That Depends on Trees.
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  #5  
Old 10-20-2014, 11:02 AM
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ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
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VERY nice.
Would be nice to see Estes produce this as a kit, or an even larger one based on their PS 3" or 4" tube.
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  #6  
Old 10-20-2014, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
VERY nice.
Would be nice to see Estes produce this as a kit, or an even larger one based on their PS 3" or 4" tube.



I'm working on it as if it was an Estes kit. I'd love to see them come out with one. However, I doubt that they will produce it as a 3" or 4" design, because that would mean they need to make a new nosecone mold. From what I've seen, it seems like they've really slowed down in creating new and different shapes lately.

Eventually, I'd like to replace the Partizon's nose cone with a custom turned one that would be an accurate upscale of the PNC-55AC.

Pointy Side Up!
Jim
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Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).

"The Guide says there is an art to flying", said Ford, "or rather a knack."
"The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."


Launching is Optional... Landing? That Depends on Trees.
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  #7  
Old 10-20-2014, 02:30 PM
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Bob H Bob H is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K'Tesh
Eventually, I'd like to replace the Partizon's nose cone with a custom turned one that would be an accurate upscale of the PNC-55AC.
When I built my upscale I used a Semroc series 225 tube (2.43 OD) because they had a BNC-55AC upscale cone available for it. The 30" tube was almost exactly the correct size for the short version which is what I have from my first rocketry hobby period.

They are still showing the tubes and the nose cone available but there are no longer any centering rings so those would need to be made.
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  #8  
Old 10-21-2014, 05:44 PM
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K'Tesh K'Tesh is offline
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Baffle is partially built... (rail button mount installed)



The finished baffle will have two quarter moon shaped plates, with a 29mm gap between them orientated parallel to the bottom plate (which is 35mm wide). I'll shield them from the heat w/JB Weld.

Glued the motor retainer in place... (aft rail button installed)



I'm still debating on whether or not to glue the forward coupler in place or not. As is, it can be removed just by unscrewing the forward rail button.

More to come...
Jim
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__________________
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Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).

"The Guide says there is an art to flying", said Ford, "or rather a knack."
"The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."


Launching is Optional... Landing? That Depends on Trees.
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  #9  
Old 10-22-2014, 09:07 AM
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Kimble29 Kimble29 is offline
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Looking awesome! Great work!
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  #10  
Old 10-22-2014, 11:39 AM
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K'Tesh K'Tesh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimble29
Looking awesome! Great work!


Glad you like it.

Last night I got the baffle finished, including the JB Weld layer for protection of the wood.

MTC...
Jim
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Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).

"The Guide says there is an art to flying", said Ford, "or rather a knack."
"The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."


Launching is Optional... Landing? That Depends on Trees.
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