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  #1  
Old 04-26-2017, 09:57 PM
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Default Estes Saturn V to Upscale Centuri Orion

Was recently given an Estes Saturn V with the condition that I do a kitbash out of it!

That condition was like breaking some devine rule: having a complete Saturn V kit and not building it??? I almost said no. Took some convincing but I finally gave in. So my friend and I, after much deliberating, decided that I should build an upscale of the Centuri Orion or something close. Had to get some extra parts but this is the story of that journey...

Come along, read, cry, laugh, make suggestions and constructive criticism... It is my first scratch built mid-power rocket. If everything goes as plan, I will be flying it on ECRM in June 2017.

Pictures to follow soon...
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  #2  
Old 04-26-2017, 10:58 PM
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That actually sounds fun.
I think I'd add more parts and try to make an upscaled Enerjet Athena out of it. (Kinda the big-brother to the Centuri Orion)
Make it at least 29mm if not 38mm power. I think I'd definitely make it HPR and able to take at least a baby/small "J" like the Aerotech J350, but able to fly on as small as a 29mm H128.
Main body tube would be the stock BT-101 with the larger payload section something around 5.5 to 6".
Lower pods would be BT-60 minimum but probably would go with Centuri ST-20, topped each with a stubby Orion/Athena cone.
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  #3  
Old 04-27-2017, 05:14 AM
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Thanks G for your comments and suggestions! They are all great but some I will not be able to do as I have already started the build.

I started this build in early March and it has been a slow one due to church, work, and family activities. I get 10 minutes here, an hour there, but its already looking like an Orion. The core BT is a BT-55 so this baby is going to be flown on a 24 or 29 mm motor (sorry ghrocketman, no larger motors...)

I did an upscale of the Semroc rkt file for the Orion and it ended up being about a 1.93 upscale. Like Ghrocketman mentioned, the pods were "rounded up" to BT-60.

I started with the fins, which are 1/8" balsa between 1/64" plywood sheets glued together with 30 minute epoxy. These are TTW fins, first time I build with this technique. Used my "high tech" pressing equipment to keep the fins flat while drying (pantry assault) between a sheet of glass (kitchen cutting board) and the counter top. Later trimmed the extra plywood and covered them with Elmer's wood filler followed by a "gentle" but extensive sanding. I hated all that dust...

The TTW sections of the fins do not run all the way on the fin as I wanted them to rest on the centering rings around the engine mount area. Instead of explaining I will post a screenshot of that section of the rkt file...

Posting pictures slowly because I am taking these with my smartphone then I have to resize them to be able to upload them.

Next pictures: the NC...
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  #4  
Old 04-27-2017, 08:38 AM
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YES!


This will amaze everyone here since modifying the Estes Sat V is one of my favorite things to do but I think it's a great idea!

Just be sure to cluster it. Even if you've started you can still cluster.

I've been thinking about the one Tim sells at Apogee and clustering it but upscaling with the Estes Saturn V would be simple and it could be easily clustered.

Do it! Do it! Do it!


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  #5  
Old 04-27-2017, 10:04 AM
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If motor mount hasn't been glued in, go with at least a BT-60 so you can do interchangeable mounts. It will take an 18mm 3 motor cluster like the early Saturns, and you can still go with 29mm singles. If you want to cluster three 24mm D's or four 18mm's, you'd have to go up to a BT-70 motor mount, IIRC. (I started a 4" Orion but never have gotten around to finishing it and our 1/70 Saturn 1B's have 4 18mm capability.)

I can say with experience, three C6's or four B6's give a much quicker ride on the 1/70 Saturn 1B with both giving it more altitude than a D12-3. The BT-70 motor mount will let you tailor the rocket for whatever field and audience you have.

If your kitbash is no heavier than a typical Saturn V or 1/70 Saturn 1B a single D12-3 will give you great small field up close and personal demo flights. Just fly it in calm air and use a stiff rod. The D12-3 is about 16.8 N/s.

Four B6's will get it off the pad quicker and add a little altitude. This is about 17.2 N/s so not much higher, but stronger kick off the pad for better stability on a short rod.

Three C6's will be considerably higher with 26.46 N/s

Four C6's will give you nearly a full E flight with 35.28 N/s, right about the same total impulse as an Aerotech E15-4 or Estes/Aerotech E30-4. Clustering is more fun and gives you more interesting in flight photos.

If you want to peel the fiddly bits off of it, stuff a hard kickin 29mm in and let it rip.
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  #6  
Old 04-27-2017, 02:00 PM
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If you've glued the mount in already you can still cluster it by using the outboards. That's what I would do with the regular one Apogee is selling.

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  #7  
Old 04-27-2017, 03:21 PM
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How are you replicating the main body's nose cone?

BTW, your flattening technique seems a little......



.....wait for it.....





.....wait for it.....





.....wait for it.....





....."fishy".
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  #8  
Old 04-28-2017, 07:11 AM
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Wow, never thought about the cluster option this one. I may consider making an adapter for a cluster (2-4) since I do not intend to put motors on the pods.

Good one jeffyjeep!

Bad news, I already used a BT-55 for the core MM tube thinking that I could get away with a D or an E, will see what my options will be as all the parts so far weight 14.26 oz... The heavy part is the fin/MM assembly part with you will see at a later post. While I consider clustering or not, I will keep tbzep's comments in mind...

The NC was made based on the rocsim file. Three outer layers of 110 cardstock with a BT-55 core and three centering rings (CR), two homemade. I made the shoulder with a piece of BT-101. The tip will be made out of balsa that I intend on making on a press drill. The BT-55 was extended to reach the bottom of the shoulder so that I can add extra weight close to the tip when it comes time to balance this behemoth.

I used epoxy on most of the NC to avoid the shrinkage of the carpenter's glue... that is why it has three layes of cardstock. When I added the 2nd layer I used carpenter's glue on the third CR, not a pretty result. So I added the 3rd layer at the end. Still needs a little work but it is a very solid NC. She weights about 3 oz.
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  #9  
Old 04-28-2017, 12:02 PM
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BT-55 is just over the size required for 29mm. make the main mount 29mm and adapt down to 24mm if you choose. You do NOT want to be limited to a single 24mm on a rocket of this diameter. I would not fly it on less than an E30-4T. Maybe a F15-4 Estes SU BP motor if you keep the weight down and in zero wind.
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When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL
, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !

Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC !
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  #10  
Old 04-28-2017, 07:23 PM
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Incentive to cluster the kitbash...

Click for big pic





They were flying vertically. Pic rotated to fill screen for wallpaper. First pic 4 B6's, second pic 3 C6's.
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