Ye Olde Rocket Forum

Go Back   Ye Olde Rocket Forum > Work Bench > Projects
User Name
Password
Auctions Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts Search Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 07-17-2017, 10:54 AM
neil_w's Avatar
neil_w neil_w is offline
Mr. Cut-by-hand
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Northern New Jersey
Posts: 439
Default

Thank you all for the positive feedback. It helps keep me motivated through these very long builds (which are long mainly because I work slowly).

I've added links to the TRF build threads in the top two posts in case anyone wants to see some of the wacky stuff that went into them (there really are some highly unusual bits in there). Warning: the threads are long and meandering, just like the builds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
Love the APRO paint scheme.

A joint effort. I used Gary's original as a starting point, then Mark Hayes suggested a bunch of Mars Lander-inspired graphics, then I generated the final artwork for Mark to print, following his suggestions pretty closely. Gary cut the window wrap vinyl for me; generating the art for that was a complex endeavor. I do quite like the way it came out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanj
Would buy both.

Well, I can provide you with OR files, decal artwork and everything else you'd need if you really wanted to build either one. They were both challenging and a lot of fun. Both would be difficult to actually kit due to some large pieces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpJet
I REALLY LIKE your Starship Avalon. I may have to borrow those curved type fins you have on a future Estes Design.

You'll have to pardon me for saying this comment made my day, or maybe my whole year.

I always ponder the kit-ability of my designs, purely because it's fun to fantasize about. The curved pieces on the Avalon seem like they'd be a tough nut to crack. I formed them on 4" PVC couplers (the genuinely interesting fabrication process is documented here and here ). The only way I can imagine doing something like this in a kit is to come up with a form that is strong enough but also small and light enough to get into standard package. Seems difficult, but there are a lot of fun design possibilities using pieces like that. I doubt it would be practical to include prefabricated pieces in the package, although I guess if they were molded plastic it is possible (but no fun. )
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-17-2017, 12:57 PM
JumpJet's Avatar
JumpJet JumpJet is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Pueblo Colorado
Posts: 1,307
Default

For a Kit I would make those large curved fins out of a large dia. standard body tube. Most likely a tube from a 3" dia. Leviathan kit. I would slit one tube down it's length. Apply glue to the inside of the entire tube and place it over another tube of the same diameter. Most likely tape it in place until dry. Next I would apply a printed template to the laminated tube. The template would also have the locations for the fins to be bonded to, for which I would cut the tube for through the wall fin gluing. You can simply sand the fin flush for any part that stick past the outer tube. Most likely two sets of laminated tubes would be needed to cut out three sets of parts with a spar left over. These parts would be a lot heavier than your balsa ones but much easier to make.

I may have to try and make just the curve tube fin parts to see how it comes out.

By the way I am always looking at Movie and TV Sci Fi ships to get inspiration from for New Estes Kits, just like you have for your design. Most Times I take just one design element of the model to create a kit from.


John Boren
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-17-2017, 01:23 PM
neil_w's Avatar
neil_w neil_w is offline
Mr. Cut-by-hand
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Northern New Jersey
Posts: 439
Default

Making those parts out of tubing does work. In my case, the required diameter was 5", so I couldn't really find anything suitable (at least not that I'd want to pay for). I will say though that my double-laminated (two sheets of 1/16") balsa parts came out almost absurdly strong, and it was nice to be able to round all the edges with sandpaper. The thickness also looked a bit better on this model since they theoretically represent passenger compartments.

But tubing-based parts could actually be kittable in a reasonable way. I'll be watching for your future releases.

Dang it, now you've got my imagination going again thinking about ways to incorporate smaller-diameter helical pieces. Gotta go fiddle.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-17-2017, 01:57 PM
JumpJet's Avatar
JumpJet JumpJet is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Pueblo Colorado
Posts: 1,307
Default

The largest tube Estes has currently would be the 4" dia. one used in the Mega Der Red Max. Even the 3" tube would be getting too large to put in a standard size Estes Kit. Looks like I will have to rethink this or simply make something for myself and Not Estes. It would be simple enough to sand the edges round. I would then apply thin CA glue to seal the edges and make them real strong. If your in the mood to experiment try adding a layer of 1/32" or 1/16" balsa sheet between the layers of tubes. This would get you the thickness you are looking for.


John Boren
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-17-2017, 02:02 PM
neil_w's Avatar
neil_w neil_w is offline
Mr. Cut-by-hand
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Northern New Jersey
Posts: 439
Default

Could you pre-slice the tubes in half, or even thirds (depending on the dictates of the design)? I know that would be a non-standard bit of manufacturing (and therefore maybe not possible), and also I'm not certain if the split tubes will withstand the rigors of handling, but it's a thought.

I'm not really certain if the tubes would need to be double-thickness. As long as the ends are well-supported, they might do just fine as a single layer (don't know the wall thickness of Estes 3" and 4" tubes off-hand).

Anyway, regardless of whether for Estes or for yourself, I look forward to seeing what designs you can come up with.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-17-2017, 02:16 PM
JumpJet's Avatar
JumpJet JumpJet is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Pueblo Colorado
Posts: 1,307
Default

Not sure if I could get to tube maker to slit the tubes, I kind of doubt it. If they would I bet it would cost LOTS of money to do so.



John Boren
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-17-2017, 02:52 PM
LeeR's Avatar
LeeR LeeR is offline
Retired with Way Too Many Kits
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,222
Default

Very nice detailing on both. Homemade decals? They look great. And especially impressed with the green decals and how well they match the green paint.

My wife drives an Avalon, but I like the lines on yours better ...
__________________
Lee Reep
NAR 55948

Projects: Semroc Saturn 1B, Ken Foss Designs Mini Satellite Interceptor
In the Paint Shop: Nothing! Too cold!
Launch-Ready: Farside-X, Maxi Honest John, Super Scamp
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-17-2017, 03:16 PM
neil_w's Avatar
neil_w neil_w is offline
Mr. Cut-by-hand
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Northern New Jersey
Posts: 439
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeR
Very nice detailing on both. Homemade decals? They look great. And especially impressed with the green decals and how well they match the green paint.

Thank you. I spend an inordinate amount of time sweating over paint and decal schemes, because it just does not come easily to me at all. That's why sometimes it's nice to just build a kit and have all that figured out by someone else.

The APRO decals are printed wrap vinyl from Stickershock23, other than the "windows" wrap which was cut from black vinyl for me by Gary Byrum.

The Avalon decals are all printed wrap vinyl from Stickershock23.

All artwork created by me.

The match between the decals and my Key Lime paint is simply dumb luck. The design was originally intended to be all paint, and then evolved into a hybrid of paint and printed decals. The decal green was supposed to match some fluorescent yellow-green I had mixed up myself from little Testor's bottles, but the printed output came out looking quite a bit different from how the artwork appeared on my screen. But I happened to have a can of Key Lime paint on-hand, and whaddya know it matched the decals almost perfectly.

Dumb luck. But I'll take it. I didn't have much of a plan B if I couldn't match the decals to the paint.

My wife drives an Avalon, but I like the lines on yours better ... [/QUOTE]
And I'll bet hers can't cut grass like mine can.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-17-2017, 05:42 PM
LeeR's Avatar
LeeR LeeR is offline
Retired with Way Too Many Kits
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,222
Default

Neil,
Since posting, I read thru much of the Build Thread. Looks like a fun project -- I'll have to give the bending balsa technique a try on a project. I hope you'll have some flight videos in the future.

In all this reading I thought I spotted a question on good clears to use. Maybe you've found something you like, but I swear by a Krylon UV-Resistant Acrylic Clears. It's used on artwork a lot, and I found it in the Art Dept. of Hobby Lobby, and not with the spray paints. It comes in Gloss and Matte. And you can use the 40% off coupon too.

I will use the Gloss as a protective coat on old waterslide decals before cutting them and putting them to soak for application. I also use a number of flat paints on rockets, and use the Gloss prior to applying decals, and then a Matte clearcoat for protection, if I want the final finish flat. (Or Gloss, if I want a high sheen).

I've had no compatibility issues with any paints -- enamels or lacquers. And no yellowing on anything. I started using theses clears about 4 years ago.

Here is a picture of my upscaled Orbital Transport. I used a semigloss white paint. The decals were made 10 years ago by a Tango Papa Decals, and looked perfect, but I clearcoated them first with Gloss. Then I applied them, and finished the model with Matte clear. (I just realized this shot was taken the night before I left for NSL, and the motor mount is not in it.)

The little OT, if you look closely, has brownish haze all over it. That is Testors Dullcote that turned bad after about two years. The really white areas are my attempt to remove the haze. I'm just going to sand it down and repaint. I'll clearcoat it this time with a Krylon.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:  IMG_1162.JPG
Views: 31
Size:  656.5 KB  
__________________
Lee Reep
NAR 55948

Projects: Semroc Saturn 1B, Ken Foss Designs Mini Satellite Interceptor
In the Paint Shop: Nothing! Too cold!
Launch-Ready: Farside-X, Maxi Honest John, Super Scamp
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-17-2017, 07:16 PM
mojo1986's Avatar
mojo1986 mojo1986 is offline
Old Canuck Modeller
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Kingston, CANADA
Posts: 2,160
Default

Looks like the fins aren't very wide. The large tube, even up to 4" diameter, could be pre-cut into rings which would lie flat in a kit. I don't see a problem.


Joe
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:10 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ye Olde Rocket Shoppe © 1998-2024