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  #11  
Old 08-28-2011, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luke strawwalker
Thanks for the tip, Bill! Got any pics to go with it?? (pic's worth a thousand words... LOL)



You won't be needing it for this build, but here are a couple of shots:


Bill
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  #12  
Old 08-29-2011, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill
You won't be needing it for this build, but here are a couple of shots:


Bill


That looks REALLY nice Bill! Got any pics of the setup to make them?? I didn't quite follow the description...

Later! OL JR
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  #13  
Old 08-29-2011, 01:06 PM
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Well, been doing some research on the Saturn V... Want to detail the thing pretty well and want to do it accurately. Got some FANTASTIC infographics available over at http://www.apollomaniacs.com/apollo/...aft_menu_e.htm

Everything from the CM, SM, LES tower, SLA panels, and all three stages of the Saturn V, plus the first stage of the Saturn IB. TONS of terrific information.

Been trying to digest it all and integrate it with the stuff in "Rockets of the World" as well as a couple other Saturn V sources I have around the place, as well as information from John Pursley's website http://www.accur8.com/ as there's lots of good info on there as well.

Later! OL JR
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  #14  
Old 08-29-2011, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luke strawwalker
Got any pics of the setup to make them?? I didn't quite follow the description...



Unfortunately not. I only have two hands.

The jist if it is to emboss a straight line across a cardstock strip using the blade slot of the cutter as a negative, then repeat as many times as needed. Where the practice comes in is repeating that consistently.


Bill
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  #15  
Old 08-29-2011, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill
Unfortunately not. I only have two hands.

The jist if it is to emboss a straight line across a cardstock strip using the blade slot of the cutter as a negative, then repeat as many times as needed. Where the practice comes in is repeating that consistently.


Bill


Oh, Ok... Yeah, I know the feeling... (look at some of the pics in some of my Dr. Zooch build threads, relating to trimming papered fins and most recently trimming the BT-50 motor block ring at an angle for the SRB aft skirts and you'll see I'm doing it "one handed" so I can take the pic...)

I see what you're getting at now... I've thought about making a grooved wooden block (or some other suitable hard material) for just such a purpose...

Basically after a few passes my old mouse pad got a groove in it deep enough to keep the pen centered and so I just moved the shroud a bit to line up the next line location over the groove and then ran the pen over it. I like your idea of a dedicated 'stylus' better than the old ink pen, but it worked in a pinch.

I've been thinking about mechanical ways of doing this... My SIL gave me an old "paper ribber" she got at a scrapbooking store; it's basically two gears about 9 inches long or so that intermesh, with one turned by a "T" handle on one end. Sorta like an old wringer-type washing machine... feed the paper into it, turn the handle, and it comes out the other side ribbed. Problem is, the ribs are about 1/8 inch wide and 1/8 inch high, so it's WAY too "coarse" of a ribbing for most rocket use (unless you were building say a 1/50 Saturn or something like that-- IE ginormous!) I've thought about doing something similar using smaller gears-- maybe a stack of small brass gears like would typically be used on small electric motors in toy cars or RC stuff... but finding a pack of gears would be fun... then of course they ALL have to remain lined up perfectly (index them to one shaft I suppose) so that opposing gears all remain lined up as the paper is fed between them to rib it. That could work, but like I said, finding the parts to make it could be fun...

The other thought I've had is intermeshing two all-thread rods... 1/4 x 20 rods would work pretty well (not too coarse a ribbing) and feed the paper between them as they were turned against each other, forcing the paper to take the shape of the threads which would be intermeshed as it was fed through... course that would put the ribs lengthwise, but if you could cut the desired wrap out of the paper cross-wise it could work... (they'd also be at an angle unless you fed the paper through to account for the spiral helix of the threads). Also, as it turned, the all-thread rods would move from one end to the other in relation to each other (opposite directions) unless one found an equivalent size left-hand threaded re-rod...

Of course for conical stuff like the fin fairings and conical S-II/S-IVB interstage, you'd have to basically have a dedicated tool-- one with two intermeshing conical gears to roll the corrugations onto the sloped sides of the parts... (or roll the corrugations on narrower at one end to account for the sloped sides even though the part is still laid out flat from the cardstock).

If I were building kits I'd DEFINITELY have to come up with a solution, but for no more than I'm doing, making them by hand where necessary is good enough...

later! OL JR
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  #16  
Old 08-29-2011, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luke strawwalker
Oh, Ok... Yeah, I know the feeling... (look at some of the pics in some of my Dr. Zooch build threads, relating to trimming papered fins and most recently trimming the BT-50 motor block ring at an angle for the SRB aft skirts and you'll see I'm doing it "one handed" so I can take the pic...)



If I was into posting build threads, I could mount a gum cam on a bracket and take frame grabs of the video.



Quote:
Originally Posted by luke strawwalker
I've been thinking about mechanical ways of doing this... My SIL gave me an old "paper ribber" she got at a scrapbooking store; it's basically two gears about 9 inches long or so that intermesh, with one turned by a "T" handle on one end. Sorta like an old wringer-type washing machine... feed the paper into it, turn the handle, and it comes out the other side ribbed. Problem is, the ribs are about 1/8 inch wide and 1/8 inch high, so it's WAY too "coarse" of a ribbing for most rocket use (unless you were building say a 1/50 Saturn or something like that-- IE ginormous!) I've thought about doing something similar using smaller gears-- maybe a stack of small brass gears like would typically be used on small electric motors in toy cars or RC stuff... but finding a pack of gears would be fun... then of course they ALL have to remain lined up perfectly (index them to one shaft I suppose) so that opposing gears all remain lined up as the paper is fed between them to rib it. That could work, but like I said, finding the parts to make it could be fun...



My first impression of those years ago was that they were too big for what I needed.



Quote:
Originally Posted by luke strawwalker
Of course for conical stuff like the fin fairings and conical S-II/S-IVB interstage, you'd have to basically have a dedicated tool-- one with two intermeshing conical gears to roll the corrugations onto the sloped sides of the parts... (or roll the corrugations on narrower at one end to account for the sloped sides even though the part is still laid out flat from the cardstock).

If I were building kits I'd DEFINITELY have to come up with a solution, but for no more than I'm doing, making them by hand where necessary is good enough...



My latest thought is to build a computerized milling machine. Pass one would be to engrave a negative image onto an aluminum plate. Pass two is to replace the milling tool with an embosser and make cardstock parts. An additional problem is that embossing changes the dimensions of the cardstock, so some experimentation is needed to figure how to adjust for that.


Bill
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It is well past time to Drill, Baby, Drill!

If your June, July, August and September was like this, you might just hate summer too...

Please unload your question before you ask it unless you have a concealed harry permit.

: countdown begin cr dup . 1- ?dup 0= until cr ." Launch!" cr ;

Give a man a rocket and he will fly for a day; teach him to build and he will spend the rest of his days sanding...
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  #17  
Old 08-29-2011, 05:17 PM
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You might ask David Hanners on the Yahoo Space Models group where he gets his paper and the stock numbers...
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  #18  
Old 08-29-2011, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkrobel
You might ask David Hanners on the Yahoo Space Models group where he gets his paper and the stock numbers...


Thanks for the tip Mike... I appreciate it.

I'm pretty well set for now but I had PemTech asking me about this very thing on TRF... he sells kits and I'm sure he'd be interested in a commercial source for ribbed paper in bulk...

Thanks again! OL JR
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  #19  
Old 08-31-2011, 08:46 PM
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Just so nobody thinks I'm slacking off...

Taken from the apollo maniacs site, checked against some other sites including John Pursley's accur8.com, NARTS Saturn V blueprints, http://www.apollosaturn.com/
http://spacemodels.dk/saturnv.htm
http://www.saturnvmodel.info/
http://www.apolloarchive.com/ http://ricksternbach.com/SatV/Saturn_V_Clinic.html

Here's some pretty straight up graphics below...

I'm going to "clock" all the details to their proper positions on the rocket stack, including the CSM and BPC. I've done some sketchwork of the complete stack in each of the four positions (I, II, III, and IIII, with their CSM/SLA equivalents according to the apollomaniacs stuff (-Z Pos I, -Y Pos II, +Z Pos III, +Y Pos IIII) Once I "map" all the details, I can then transfer them to a "wrap" evenly divided into four quadrants (first scan above) with all the detail locations located on it, which can then be wrapped around the tube and the ends taped together, aligned with the reference line on the body tube, and then correctly radially locate all the details onto the body tubes and forward and aft skirts, etc. Now I have to do one for the S-IVB (it's pretty complicated as well, despite not having as many propellant line fairings as the S-II, there's a lot more details like retrorockets, auxiliary power units, LH2 fill/drain fairings, cable runs, etc... The S-IC should be the simplest of the lot, and I'll save it for last.

More later! OL JR
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  #20  
Old 09-02-2011, 09:47 PM
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Got a little more work done today before I had to go fix the old man's water well... and haul a TV to recycling center for my brother, and get parts for the well at Lowe's...

SO, here's the S-IVB wrap with all the details laid out by position number (I,II, III, IIII) Everything above the S-IVB switches to coordinate locations by axes-- (-Z, -Y, +Z, +Y, with the central vertical "roll" axis being +X forward and -X rearward). But that's another story...
Here's the wrap...

And here's a good source for details, along with photos I have of the JSC Saturn V, and ROTW, and John Pursley's accur8.com site, and a few others... including the NARTS Saturn V blueprints I bought years ago (despite them being muched on in storage by silverfish).

Later! OL JR
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