As I'm sitting here patiently waiting for my Estes Saturn V to arrive...who am I kidding; I"m worse than a kid trying to sleep on Christmas Eve...

I had a couple of questions for more experienced builders out there:

1) I'd like to upgrade the kit to fly on a single 24x95 mm motor instead of the recommended 24x70. The goal is to push the rocket to around 500 - 600 feet instead of the projected 150' height. The mount shouldn't be a problem; I'm planning on using a spacer and beefing up the construction a bit. I see the issue being adding nose weight for stability. Am I on the right track? As long as I don't fit it for 29mm motors, I should be okay on the fins, I believe, although I'm considering making wood forms. How much nose weight and where would you recommend putting it?

2) Are there any good build threads out there for the updated version of the kit? I'm going to keep checking back at EMRR, but anything else out there would be helpful.

The bottom line is I'm going to take my time with this build and do the kit (and the program it represents) justice. I've been in an excited delirium since I hit the 'add to cart' button last week. Thanks in advance for the input!

Responded to duplicate thread on TRF.

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-Fred Shecter NAR 20117 (L2)
Southern California Rocket Association, NAR Section 430

Do not, repeat do not try to fly your Saturn V on an E9 motor. An E9 has more total impulse, but lower average thrust than a D12, so it will likely not go straight up.


Bill

Same here.

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Roy
nar12605

What Bill said. Look at the graph in this link to compare the thrust curve of the D12 to the E9. You need every bit of that initial thrust spike to get the Saturn V going and off the rod and at a good velocity.

If you want better performance, you need to go to a cluster configuration or move up to composite propellant (AP), such as sold by AeroTech or Cesaroni.

Greg

I'm going 29mm in mine with the upgrade kit sold by Commonwealth.
The only DECENT 24mm motors to fly the Saturn V on are the Single-ues Aerotech E30 and F32. As far as RMS 24 it's pretty much a choice btwn the E28T and F24W. NOTHING in ANY sort of Estes motor will fly the Saturn V decently. A cluster of 3 18mm D10 Aerotech 18mm D's works decently.
The 29mm offers far more engine choices. Build it STRONG and fly on one of the new Aerotech G138's

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When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !
Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, TURMOIL, FIASCOS, and HAVOC !

So if I'm understanding correctly, I should select a motor with about 30N initial thrust due to the weight of the rocket (like the D12), and then consider burn timewhen considering height? I prefer a slow dramatic launch of a big rocket more than speed off the rail and crazy height.

If it's too slow off the rod or rail, it will be much more "dramatic" than you will like. Get a video of it leaving the rod and suddently turning to face directly at you: "Dramatic look Saturn V". Post to YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Kyi0WNg40

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-Fred Shecter NAR 20117 (L2)
Southern California Rocket Association, NAR Section 430

It would be a good idea that for every 100g of Saturn V launch mass, you should have at least 10N of initial thrust. So if you have a 400g rocket on the pad, it's good to have at least 40N of initial thrust. Others may have a better "go by" but that is at least a start.

Everyone would like, no that's not the word, LOVE to have a slow, majestic liftoff for a Saturn V. Unfortunately we don't have the 2 1/2 minute burn time of the S-IC or 4 gimbaling outboard engines tied into guidance and control. A slow liftoff can turn a nicely built Saturn V into a cruise missile if it is underpowered in a good breeze. Wind is your enemy. High thrust is your friend. The art is finding a good balance between something that barely makes it off the rod and something that zips out of sight in a blink of an eye.

Greg

A lot of great advice here, and I thank you all very much! I think the light bulb is starting to brighten. Any thoughts on the AT-SU E30 or F32 paired with this rocket? Any ballpark estimates on height with a stock build (the only deviations are to allow for CG stability with the added engine weight)?