Ye Olde Rocket Forum

Go Back   Ye Olde Rocket Forum > Work Bench > Scale & Sport Scale Rocketry
User Name
Password
Auctions Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts Search Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-15-2011, 02:24 PM
luke strawwalker's Avatar
luke strawwalker luke strawwalker is offline
BAR
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Needville and Shiner, TX
Posts: 6,134
Default NASA Study Summary: "Orbital Launch Potential Saturn IB using SRMs"

Here's an interesting study from Sept of 64, entitled "Orbital Launch Potential: Saturn IB Earth Launch Vehicle Using Solid Propellant Motors".

This study not only covers the use of large monolithic SRMs for first stage replacements, but also the clustering of smaller 120 inch Titan III SRMs for first stages, and also the possibility of clustering 156 inch SRMs for first stages, as well as investigates the possibilities and performance available from adding a pair of 120 inch Titan III SRMs or 156 inch segmented SRMs to the side of the existing Saturn IB first stage as SRBs, either dropped in-flight or bolted to the stage and carried through the liquid S-IB first stage burnout. Performance gains of up to 170% over the standard Saturn IB payload to orbit were possible, with an upgraded S-IVB stage on top.

Enjoy. Pics to follow... OL JR
__________________
The X-87B Cruise Basselope-- THE Ultimate Weapon in the arsenal of Homeland Security and only $52 million per round!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-15-2011, 02:27 PM
luke strawwalker's Avatar
luke strawwalker luke strawwalker is offline
BAR
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Needville and Shiner, TX
Posts: 6,134
Default

Ok... the first pic is an overview with stats of the 120 inch Titan III SRM proposed for various uses in this study.

The second pic is the two configurations of the 156 inch test motor development. The top one is for gimbal nozzle and jet vane TVC tests, the bottom one was for test firing the 260 inch nozzle development test.

The third pic has a chart of various perfomance data related to the 156 inch test motors based on number of center segments used. On bottom is a scale pic of the full-size 260 inch motor with dimensions.

The fourth pic is a scale drawing of the 260 inch full size motor

The fifth pic is a scale drawing of the standard Saturn IB upon which the study is referenced.

More to come... OL JR
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:  TitanIIISRMconfigstats.JPG
Views: 119
Size:  93.1 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  156inchtestmotor.JPG
Views: 108
Size:  127.9 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  156inchmotordata.JPG
Views: 89
Size:  105.7 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  260inchfullsizemotor.JPG
Views: 99
Size:  62.8 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  SaturnIBconfig.JPG
Views: 131
Size:  99.8 KB  
__________________
The X-87B Cruise Basselope-- THE Ultimate Weapon in the arsenal of Homeland Security and only $52 million per round!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-15-2011, 02:29 PM
luke strawwalker's Avatar
luke strawwalker luke strawwalker is offline
BAR
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Needville and Shiner, TX
Posts: 6,134
Default

The first pic shows the various clustered arrangements of SRMs for possible first stage replacements for Saturn IB. Several different configurations were studied, including 3, 4, and 5 motor versions with SRMs with either four or five segments in each motor in the cluster. It would have been interesting to see this study updated to reflect the latest state of the art in SRM's for Titan IV using the 7 segment SRBs clustered for the first stage.

The second pic is the Saturn IB with twin 156 inch SRB's.

The third pic is a scale drawing with all the dimensions for a Saturn IB cargo version with a pair of Titan III UA-1205 120 inch SRB's flanking the core stage.

The fourth pic is a performance chart using the standard S-IVB stage propellant weight as used by the regular Saturn IB and Saturn V. The added first stage thrust and increased payload really calls for an uprated (tank stretched) and strengthened S-IVB stage to optimize the performance.

The fifth and last pic is a performance chart using an uprated and lengthened S-IVB stage to better make use of the additional thrust of the first stage and payload lifting capacity.

Enjoy! OL JR
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:  MultiSRBSaturn1b.png
Views: 150
Size:  55.2 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  SaturnItwin156SRBs.JPG
Views: 109
Size:  70.0 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  SaturnIBtwin120SRBconfig.JPG
Views: 111
Size:  123.4 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  120inchSRBfirststageweightsummary.JPG
Views: 90
Size:  131.8 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  120inchSRBfirststageweightsummaryupdatedS-IVB.JPG
Views: 91
Size:  136.0 KB  
__________________
The X-87B Cruise Basselope-- THE Ultimate Weapon in the arsenal of Homeland Security and only $52 million per round!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-15-2011, 04:15 PM
Pem Tech's Avatar
Pem Tech Pem Tech is offline
Retromaniac
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 298
Default

Fascinating...
More! More!
__________________
Layne Pemberton NAR# 83083
Mad Scientist, Minion and Owner
PembertonTechnologies.com
P.O. Box 250760
North Little Rock AR, 72225

L1 on Pem-Tech Space Ark
at NSL2007

pem_tech (at) Yahoo (dot) com
TRF (at) pembertontechnologies (dot) com
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-15-2011, 05:54 PM
TimeRanger's Avatar
TimeRanger TimeRanger is offline
Junior Rocketeer
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Indiana
Posts: 5
Default

Cool stuff! Thanks for sharing this interesting material.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-15-2011, 08:40 PM
Chas Russell's Avatar
Chas Russell Chas Russell is offline
Retired Missile Technician
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 1,076
Default Like This?

Pod Bay Doors Team at NARAM 51 in Pennsylvania. Top section (SLA forward) built by me in Fort Worth, TX. Saturn 1B (Apogee kit) built by Matt Steele in Phoenix (at that time), SRMs built by Pat McCarthy in Florida (he works for Space Florida),. Cludge, ahhh assembled at NARAM. First flight with a single "G" to establish flight points. Second flight with a central G with A10-PT in the core and 1/2A's in the SRMs........G did not ignite.
Now I lay me down to sleep....

Steele I great Team efffort.

Chas
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:  tn_IMG_7067.jpg
Views: 133
Size:  8.2 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  tn_CIMG19713.jpg
Views: 158
Size:  12.2 KB  
__________________
Charles Russell, MSgt,USAF (ret.)
NAR 9790, Lvl 1
SAM "Balls Three"
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-15-2011, 10:34 PM
luke strawwalker's Avatar
luke strawwalker luke strawwalker is offline
BAR
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Needville and Shiner, TX
Posts: 6,134
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas Russell
Pod Bay Doors Team at NARAM 51 in Pennsylvania. Top section (SLA forward) built by me in Fort Worth, TX. Saturn 1B (Apogee kit) built by Matt Steele in Phoenix (at that time), SRMs built by Pat McCarthy in Florida (he works for Space Florida),. Cludge, ahhh assembled at NARAM. First flight with a single "G" to establish flight points. Second flight with a central G with A10-PT in the core and 1/2A's in the SRMs........G did not ignite.
Now I lay me down to sleep....

Steele I great Team efffort.

Chas


Very nice! Wish you had larger pics-- those thumbnail size just get grainy as heck when you blow them up to see anything...

Later! OL JR
__________________
The X-87B Cruise Basselope-- THE Ultimate Weapon in the arsenal of Homeland Security and only $52 million per round!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-23-2011, 11:03 AM
luke strawwalker's Avatar
luke strawwalker luke strawwalker is offline
BAR
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Needville and Shiner, TX
Posts: 6,134
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pem Tech
Fascinating...
More! More!


Hey Pem Tech... now you see why you should release that "sorta-Saturn" kit you've been playing around with-- it's really pretty similar to a lot of these 'clustered SRM first stage' Saturn I/IB and Saturn V/NOVA vehicle proposals... There's a couple studies here that show them (including the GCR study I posted earlier)

And you'd have the only one on the market!

Later! OL JR
__________________
The X-87B Cruise Basselope-- THE Ultimate Weapon in the arsenal of Homeland Security and only $52 million per round!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-25-2018, 06:21 PM
Ez2cDave's Avatar
Ez2cDave Ez2cDave is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Raleigh, NC Area
Posts: 1,743
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by luke strawwalker
Very nice! Wish you had larger pics-- those thumbnail size just get grainy as heck when you blow them up to see anything...


7 years later . . .
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:  CIMG19741.JPG
Views: 71
Size:  49.7 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  CIMG19725.JPG
Views: 36
Size:  43.0 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  CIMG19722.JPG
Views: 30
Size:  46.8 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  CIMG19721.JPG
Views: 32
Size:  45.4 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  CIMG19715.JPG
Views: 43
Size:  95.3 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  CIMG19713.JPG
Views: 48
Size:  156.0 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  CIMG19326.JPG
Views: 35
Size:  190.2 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  CIMG19325.JPG
Views: 31
Size:  189.5 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  CIMG19323.JPG
Views: 30
Size:  211.3 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  CIMG19322.JPG
Views: 31
Size:  233.7 KB  

Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-25-2018, 06:23 PM
Ez2cDave's Avatar
Ez2cDave Ez2cDave is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Raleigh, NC Area
Posts: 1,743
Default

More pics . . .
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:  IMG_4964.JPG
Views: 25
Size:  128.5 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  IMG_4963.JPG
Views: 21
Size:  95.5 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  DSC04902.JPG
Views: 27
Size:  292.5 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  DSC04889.JPG
Views: 42
Size:  250.0 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  CIMG22922.JPG
Views: 33
Size:  180.2 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  CIMG22918.JPG
Views: 31
Size:  178.9 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  CIMG22887.JPG
Views: 23
Size:  245.9 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  CIMG22885.JPG
Views: 24
Size:  229.3 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  CIMG22884.JPG
Views: 35
Size:  258.1 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  IMG_7070.JPG
Views: 43
Size:  63.9 KB  

Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:53 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ye Olde Rocket Shoppe © 1998-2024