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  #1  
Old 08-30-2011, 05:20 PM
wickball wickball is offline
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Default estes saturn v on a d12 ?

Has anyone tried to launch a new estes saturn v on an estes d12-3? final weight of mine with motor is 14.25 oz. their recommended max liftoff wight is 14 oz. will probably go with the new e20-4 or an e15-4, just wondering what others experiences are.

wick
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  #2  
Old 08-31-2011, 04:34 AM
jetlag jetlag is offline
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Do not fire it with a D-12 anything!!! You will probably be picking up the pieces after it traveled maybe 120ft upwards. You have to build it extremely light to be able to use a D12, but even then, the altitude is marginal.
You have the right idea: use an E15 or 20 or 30. An F engine may also be used, but you may need a little nose weight. I'm sure more folks will chime in with their experiences, but I would not use a D.

Allen
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Old 08-31-2011, 09:50 AM
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ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
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An Estes Saturn V flown with a D12-3 even if built to cataolgued unrealistic weight will turn in a flight that can be described with one, and ONLY ONE word, L-A-M-E-O !
A typical weight 1/100 Estes Saturn V will be lucky to hit 100' on a D12-3.
They should either have a 3X24mm cluster in this kit or a 29mm mount.
I'm putting the upgrade kit from Commonwealth in my latest Saturn V that includes a 29mm mount, upgraded recovery, and upgraded fins.
A 24mm F24W RMS reload will be the lowest impulse it EVER flies on. Most likely first Flight will be a 29mm F50.
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Old 08-31-2011, 10:19 AM
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Royatl Royatl is offline
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Consider that both the original K-36 Saturn V, and the Centuri Saturn V (on which the current one is based) were both designed for a cluster of three C6-3 motors. That is around 27-28 (actual) ns, and a liftoff thrust of 42n.

Then consider a lone D12 motor only has 17ns at the most, and a liftoff thrust of 30n.

The 3-C version will weigh about 1-1.5 oz heavier, but all-in-all, will still perform a lot better.
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  #5  
Old 08-31-2011, 02:11 PM
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Move the thrust ring up and go with a long 24mm. A D-12 is pretty much suicide by gravity
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Old 08-31-2011, 02:41 PM
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I always thought a Saturn V would fly nicely on a pair of D-12's.
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Old 08-31-2011, 03:06 PM
El Cheapo El Cheapo is offline
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I honestly dont ever see myself building one but if I did I would build it 5x24mm. If you are going to cluster, I figure you oughta use five motors like the real thing. Even C11s would be more realistic lift off due to the bigger throat and more smoke. I think the thin flame out of a C6 would look too wimpy through a camera. Ultimately five Es would be best in my opinion but never even seen one fly so I'm guestimating.

(had to edit due to brain fart. Saturn V was five motors, not four...duh)

Last edited by El Cheapo : 08-31-2011 at 03:30 PM.
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Old 08-31-2011, 06:28 PM
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The only problem with flying a single D12-3 is wind. Winds 5 mph or under are not a problem. We've flown our single engine (14.7 ounces fully prepped) Saturn V 18 times over the last decade and the only scratches it has are from transporting it to the field.

To me the engine selection for a Saturn V depends on the effect you're going for or the size of the field. A single engine can be flown on most school yards for class demos.

If you want to go for the 5 engine effect there are several engine combinations. I like ours the best on a D12 and 4 A8-3's when the winds are under 8mph, I like a D12 and 4 C's if under 12mph.

I have considered 5 D's for the next one we build but would stay away from 5 E's because I've seen too many E catos. FWIW, I consider a 5 E cluster to be more of a risk than a single D-12 but as they say, no guts, no glory.

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  #9  
Old 08-31-2011, 08:19 PM
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John Brohm John Brohm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Cheapo
... I think the thin flame out of a C6 would look too wimpy through a camera.

...



Well, it might be more of an eye of the beholder thing. Our friend Russell Cummins has an ancient Saturn 1b (from the '70's, which accounts for its charmed patina) that he likes to fly on a cluster of four C6's. It always does a nice job, and draws a lot of attention at each launch when he flies it.
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  #10  
Old 08-31-2011, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STRMan
I always thought a Saturn V would fly nicely on a pair of D-12's.
My heavy, all-plastic, RTF Cox Saturn V certainly did, even with the three LOC Precision nylon parachutes (which added even more weight) that I substituted for the included polyethylene plastic parachutes. Given how well it performed on two D12-3s, the lighter Estes Saturn V should have a healthy margin of extra thrust to get it up and away.
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