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  #1  
Old 04-25-2015, 02:59 PM
ghrocketman's Avatar
ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
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If they had some motors I'm REALLY interested in, I might do just that.
Like real hi-thrust core/port burning B, C, D, E, and F motors.
They need to put on their 'big-girl' panties and stop being such safety sissies when it comes to motor products.
The B14 was SAFELY produced back in the 60's and 70's WITHOUT CNC equipment.
The cores were hand-drilled even on some of them.
They could be produced now in an even much safer manner.
Their excuses as to why they don't make a motor we want are pure hog-warsh.

Too bad Carl did not get his planned motor program rolling at Semroc.
I had several chats with him via text/PM regarding this.
Suffice it to say HE was planning to produce niche motors we were asking for.
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  #2  
Old 04-25-2015, 03:13 PM
Jerry Irvine's Avatar
Jerry Irvine Jerry Irvine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
Like real hi-thrust core/port burning B, C, D, E, and F motors.
They need to put on their 'big-girl' panties and stop being such safety sissies when it comes to motor products.
The B14 was SAFELY produced back in the 60's and 70's WITHOUT CNC equipment.
The cores were hand-drilled even on some of them.
They could be produced now in an even much safer manner.
Their excuses as to why they don't make a motor we want are pure hog-warsh.
We are totally on the same page here. I even volunteered my own son to work for them drilling cores!! I am the one advocating for a core burning (these days more like an A10 than a B14) 24mm D and 29mm E.

Ricky, are you listening?

Hello??
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  #3  
Old 04-25-2015, 04:30 PM
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JumpJet JumpJet is offline
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Quote:
ghrocketman


I'm just sitting here eating a reuben sandwich. All I hear is the same old broken record. You should move on to something new, but I still like you.


Quote:
Jerry I.



Pretty much the same first part of my comment for you but I've now finished eating my reuben sandwich. If you think there is such a large market for such motors and you know how it should be done then you should do it yourself and make millions.



John Boren
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  #4  
Old 04-25-2015, 04:44 PM
Jerry Irvine's Avatar
Jerry Irvine Jerry Irvine is offline
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1. I hear you.
2. I did.
3. High thrust is surprisingly popular beyond the low end MR meme.
4. Estes is barely touching their toe in the beyond MR field (1.0 lb 30g pro motor).
5. High thrust and Lubbo like rockets. Estes of the future realized in 2015-17.
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  #5  
Old 04-25-2015, 09:06 PM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Irvine
We are totally on the same page here. I even volunteered my own son to work for them drilling cores!! I am the one advocating for a core burning (these days more like an A10 than a B14) 24mm D and 29mm E.

Ricky, are you listening?

Hello??
I agree with GH and you regarding high-thrust, core-burning BP motors. There is another alternative, although since it has (as far as I know) never been attempted before, it would be breaking new legal ground (but all "disruptive" innovations do this, and humanity has always survived them). It is as follows:

If a smaller company bought quantities of Estes (or Quest) motors and modified them (drilling out B4s to create B14s, for example; other candidate 13 mm, 18 mm, and 24 mm BP motors could also be modified to make "new" motors), I see no reason why they could not be submitted for NAR Certification as "new" motors. As long as the modified motors met their stated new performance parameters, it might not even be necessary for the company to let the NAR know the original source of the motors (they could be relabeled using modern equipment easily enough, in any event). This isn't entirely without precedent; some companies that offer reloadable motor cases and hardware make them compatible with Aerotech and/or other companies' propellant, delay charge, and ejection charge modules. Also:

In all areas of life (not just rocketry), I have lost all patience with nit-picking rules that restrict freedom FOR NO GOOD REASON. I have *no* objections against restrictions that make good sense and actually prevent harm (don't murder, steal, rape, or cheat, etc. [*most* of the NAR Safety Code is in this category as well]), but whenever I encounter a rule which, if *not* followed, makes no difference, I ignore it. I'm not a Wiccan, but I live by their rede, which is (expressed in modern English): "If what you want to do will harm no one, do what you will." We all need to do the same--restrictions are for those who would (and do) harm others, not for the majority of people who just want to live and enjoy life without harming anyone else.
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  #6  
Old 04-25-2015, 10:48 PM
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You could ask the people in charge at Estes if they would allow their motors to be modified and then resold by someone else, but I think you would have better luck getting politicians to tell truth, the hole truth and nothing but the truth. But like I said you could always ask.

You guys are beating a DEAD HORSE on this topic. I would suggest moving on to something else that you have control over.



John Boren
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  #7  
Old 04-26-2015, 08:25 AM
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billspad billspad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
If a smaller company bought quantities of Estes (or Quest) motors and modified them (drilling out B4s to create B14s, for example; other candidate 13 mm, 18 mm, and 24 mm BP motors could also be modified to make "new" motors), I see no reason why they could not be submitted for NAR Certification as "new" motors. As long as the modified motors met their stated new performance parameters, it might not even be necessary for the company to let the NAR know the original source of the motors (they could be relabeled using modern equipment easily enough, in any event).




We're watching you.

http://www.nar.org/wp-content/uploa...T-3_NewCert.pdf


Let us know when you get your EX number.
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  #8  
Old 04-26-2015, 04:27 PM
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ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
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I can say that in the past I drilled cores into B4-4 and B4-6 motors based on dimensions of original B14's.
Guess what ?
They perform just like B14's !
Yes, against mamby-pamby code, but they work, and I always flew on my own private land so never worried about the supposed 'safety' code.
Nozzle diameter same on B4 as old B14; this still does not get one the B14-0 though which is the most useful of the B14 family; there is no B4-0 to 'modify'.
Never had a single failure either.

Tried it with a pack of B6-0's once. The nozzle is too small in diameter to handle the additional pressure; all 3 catoed.
__________________
When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL
, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !

Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC !
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  #9  
Old 04-26-2015, 06:32 PM
luke strawwalker's Avatar
luke strawwalker luke strawwalker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
I can say that in the past I drilled cores into B4-4 and B4-6 motors based on dimensions of original B14's.
Guess what ?
They perform just like B14's !
Yes, against mamby-pamby code, but they work, and I always flew on my own private land so never worried about the supposed 'safety' code.
Nozzle diameter same on B4 as old B14; this still does not get one the B14-0 though which is the most useful of the B14 family; there is no B4-0 to 'modify'.
Never had a single failure either.

Tried it with a pack of B6-0's once. The nozzle is too small in diameter to handle the additional pressure; all 3 catoed.


Ream the nozzle to the same diameter as the B4...

Later! OL JR
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  #10  
Old 04-27-2015, 11:59 AM
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tbzep tbzep is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
I can say that in the past I drilled cores into B4-4 and B4-6 motors based on dimensions of original B14's.
Guess what ?
They perform just like B14's !
Yes, against mamby-pamby code, but they work, and I always flew on my own private land so never worried about the supposed 'safety' code.
Nozzle diameter same on B4 as old B14; this still does not get one the B14-0 though which is the most useful of the B14 family; there is no B4-0 to 'modify'.
Never had a single failure either.

Tried it with a pack of B6-0's once. The nozzle is too small in diameter to handle the additional pressure; all 3 catoed.

I've removed delays to make booster motors. It's no more/less dangerous than drilling cores.
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