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  #11  
Old 06-03-2012, 05:27 AM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the mole
I havn't confirmed that Round 2 is going to release this kit. I am only going by what I read in the Space-Modeler Group. I have email round 2 to ask if this is true. No ansure yet. I'm sure when the Wonderfest reports start to come out we might get some more information. Keep your fingers cross.

From what I have read here the Vostok was a flying lump of plastic and barely flew even on C engines because it was so heavy. You could also barely get the chute in the very confined space ahead of the engine in that internal body tube. I would still like to give it a shot.

Here is a flight reports. http://www.rocketreviews.com/mpc-vo...-jeff-lane.html
I haven't been able to find a flight report for the MPC Titan III-C, but I did find a scan of the kit instructions (see: www.ninfinger.org/models/kitplans/mpc9002.pdf ). Judging by the illustrations (and the fact that this model used an 18 mm motor in a "sub-caliber" motor mount tube), it looks like the model's kraft paper "liner" tube inside the Titan core was T-25 tubing (25 mm outside diameter), which would have had adequate volume to house the parachute. Only the C6-4 motor was recommended for the Titan III-C, which indicates that it was--as might be expected--a heavy model for its size. This does not, however, necessarily mean that it was a lousy flier because other, popular kits have had only one "Recommended Engine" (Estes LTV Scout, Estes Space Shuttle, etc.).
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Last edited by blackshire : 06-03-2012 at 05:39 AM. Reason: This ol' hoss done forgot somethin'.
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  #12  
Old 06-03-2012, 09:24 AM
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I agree that these models could be made flight worthy. Looking at the instruction I can see some parts that one could leave out to lighten the models up.

Here is a scan of the Vostok instruction: http://www.oldrocketplans.com/mpc/m...0/mpc3-0700.pdf
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  #13  
Old 06-03-2012, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the mole
I agree that these models could be made flight worthy. Looking at the instruction I can see some parts that one could leave out to lighten the models up.

Here is a scan of the Vostok instruction: http://www.oldrocketplans.com/mpc/m...0/mpc3-0700.pdf
Agreed. With today's improved injection-molding technology, such "display or flight" plastic scale models could be produced having lighter, thinner-gauge (yet sufficiently strong) plastic parts. The kraft paper "liner tubes" could be fitted into molded "half-ring" centering frames in each body half in order to create small insulating air spaces, so that the ejection charge heat wouldn't warp the plastic parts.
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  #14  
Old 06-03-2012, 10:27 AM
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Jerry Irvine Jerry Irvine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
Agreed. With today's improved injection-molding technology, such "display or flight" plastic scale models could be produced having lighter, thinner-gauge (yet sufficiently strong) plastic parts.
Closed cell foam would be substantially lighter and barely strong enough for a model rocket. Display models are not weight sensitive and favor mass to reduce frangibility.

My talks with some folks at Estes indicates they simply make new molds now when they adopt an old part. I suspect they not only benefit from non-damaged molds (ie. screwdriver damaged Alpha from the 90's). As a side effect they get reduced labor cost mold makers which they can translate to more cavities and substantially reduced part cost.

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  #15  
Old 06-03-2012, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
Did not Quest obtain most of the 'bones' of the old MPC rocketry assets? I guess those molds must not have been part of the deal.



Just as well that Quest does not have the molds. Flying the Vostok on their C6-3 would be a disaster, so they might never have rereleased that kit for liability reasons.

Did I say I hate motors with the same designation but different thrust curves from competing manufacturers? Makes life difficult explaining to newbies why they cannot fly that model with that motor...it is the laws of physics, not a bias in the club range rules in favor of E**** or against Q****... It is often easiest to just trade them an E* motor for their Q* one.

I had the Vostok in a previous life. Like the review said, even a thin mylar chute was tight in that small body tube. My oversized flight fins were molded in white plastic instead of clear.

I know of a place which has one of the old kits for sale. Not on sale as he wanted much more for it than I could justify paying.

As an aside, Round 2 is the company which is doing the reissue of the old AMT Man in Space set, so they see money to be made in bringing back old kits.


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  #16  
Old 06-04-2012, 12:01 PM
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I think they would sell if done right. As Jerry said about weight issues and flying on early C engines, motor technology as well as manufacturing has improved. I also guess there are several like myself that wanted one as a kid but never got one.
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  #17  
Old 06-04-2012, 12:05 PM
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Lot cheaper to make molds today with 5 axis cnc mills and wire/sinker edm's too. Lot of molds are still made here and sent overseas to manufacture parts.
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  #18  
Old 06-04-2012, 12:45 PM
RWmarlow RWmarlow is offline
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I had one of the MPC Vostok kit's....the mylar chute barely fit the tube...and after the first flight on a C6-3 , i used the Cox D8-3 exclusively but never flew it in high winds....
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  #19  
Old 06-04-2012, 03:37 PM
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I'm looking forward to both of these, from both plastic-kit builder and flyer perspectives. They look like an interesting challenge, and I'm curious to see how well they fly. I'm hoping Round 2 brings them to fruition.

Unless they invest in all new tooling (which I have the sneaking suspicion they won't, as the profit margin on these may not justify it), we're likely to see the same weight and issues of the original kits with regard to the plastic. The original tooling wouldn't likely be applicable to alternative materials. Molds for ABS injection molding are pretty finely-tuned to just one material.

It'll all have to wait until we see test shots, though. That they only had a placeholder box for display tells me they probably haven't been able to properly assess the state of the tooling, and might have just been doing it to generate some more buzz for Round 2 overall than specifically for those two kits. If they were in the same hands that I found a lot of orphan 60's/70's model kit tooling, I'm not certain there's a guarantee the useable state of them. That era's tooling was durable, quality stuff. But it can suffer over the years if it isn't regularly tended to.
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  #20  
Old 06-05-2012, 10:03 AM
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An update: I received this message from Mat Irvine over at space models group.

Only the Vostok was on show, and as an original issue. I suspect Sven
has it somewhere on his 'site, and it's on page 46 of Creating Space.

Also by "new" I assume you mean "new reissue" as the kits were first
issued in 1970.

mat

Mat Irvine

I'm not sure how to find Sven site but if someone knows of this site please tell me how to get there.

So now my hopes of this kit being reissue is a good possible.
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