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  #21  
Old 02-05-2015, 11:18 PM
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chadrog chadrog is offline
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No doubt about it this dude sits atop the bad-a$$ scale.
http://www.youngcons.com/hardcore-j...ng-pilot-alive/
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  #22  
Old 02-06-2015, 12:06 AM
Peter Olivola Peter Olivola is offline
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You assume too much. We're already engaged militarily and it would be appropriate to ratchet that up. Indiscriminate bombing of civilians isn't going to achieve our goals but will aid theirs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironnerd
Shockingly, I must disagree with Peter Olivola. Basically the premise of your argument is flawed.

Would you claim that we can't put criminals in jail because by so doing we are degrading ourselves? How do we punish ISIS? Or do we simply agree not to meddle in their affairs?

If we do nothing, ISIS wins, and they have a powerful recruiting message that they any opposition will come in the form of words only and that they have nothing to fear from the infidels.

If we retaliate in kind, ISIS wins and has a powerful recruiting message that the infidels, led by the west, are making war against Islam.

If we sit down to negotiate ISIS wins and has a powerful recruiting message that they have forced the weak infidels, led by the west, to the bargaining table and will dictate terms.

So what, then, are we to do? If we do nothing, men, women, and children, will be killed, women will be raped, girls will be sold into slavery, boys will be given guns and told to fight the infidels or be killed (we burned that pilot, ya know...). Not really speculation since ISIS et al have already done these. So I think doing nothing is out of the question.

Economic sanctions are not likely to work - a bit like economic sanctions against inner city gangs.

Negotiating is not likely to work - what would we offer? What would ISIS offer in return? Based on their previous behavior, would giving them their own land (which already has people on it) seem like a good idea? Who will ensure the safety of those not wanting to live under ISIS rule? Would the United States or UN really set up a Islamist Dictatorship run by guys with a solid history of human rites violations?

These guys are like wolverines. They can't be stopped, only killed. They have shown no behavior to indicate otherwise.

SO... I don't think King Abdullah is out of bounds with his reaction. What ISIS has done is nothing short of monstrous. They deserve a monstrous response.
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  #23  
Old 02-06-2015, 07:55 AM
bob jablonski bob jablonski is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Olivola
You assume too much. We're already engaged militarily and it would be appropriate to ratchet that up. Indiscriminate bombing of civilians isn't going to achieve our goals but will aid theirs.

Like they don't kill the civilians that don't convert to there brand of religion?
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  #24  
Old 02-06-2015, 08:38 AM
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Rocketflyer Rocketflyer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironnerd
Shockingly, I must disagree with Peter Olivola. Basically the premise of your argument is flawed.

Would you claim that we can't put criminals in jail because by so doing we are degrading ourselves? How do we punish ISIS? Or do we simply agree not to meddle in their affairs?

If we do nothing, ISIS wins, and they have a powerful recruiting message that they any opposition will come in the form of words only and that they have nothing to fear from the infidels.

If we retaliate in kind, ISIS wins and has a powerful recruiting message that the infidels, led by the west, are making war against Islam.

If we sit down to negotiate ISIS wins and has a powerful recruiting message that they have forced the weak infidels, led by the west, to the bargaining table and will dictate terms.

So what, then, are we to do? If we do nothing, men, women, and children, will be killed, women will be raped, girls will be sold into slavery, boys will be given guns and told to fight the infidels or be killed (we burned that pilot, ya know...). Not really speculation since ISIS et al have already done these. So I think doing nothing is out of the question.

Economic sanctions are not likely to work - a bit like economic sanctions against inner city gangs.

Negotiating is not likely to work - what would we offer? What would ISIS offer in return? Based on their previous behavior, would giving them their own land (which already has people on it) seem like a good idea? Who will ensure the safety of those not wanting to live under ISIS rule? Would the United States or UN really set up a Islamist Dictatorship run by guys with a solid history of human rites violations?

These guys are like wolverines. They can't be stopped, only killed. They have shown no behavior to indicate otherwise.

SO... I don't think King Abdullah is out of bounds with his reaction. What ISIS has done is nothing short of monstrous. They deserve a monstrous response.




Well said. You hit the nail on the head, John. Fire can be fought by hosing it down, or if a forest fire, a back fire. Hose the suckers down with our own kind of fire. I don't want to send in tropps any more than does a normal person, you know some aren't coming back. Those of you have served, you know the price of freedom comes at a steep price, and when we signed up we gave Uncle Sam a blank check to cash, up to and including our lives. We knew it then, we know it now.
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  #25  
Old 02-06-2015, 10:01 AM
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Ironnerd Ironnerd is offline
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I re-read my statement, but cannot find any reference to indiscriminate bombing or attacking civilians. I believe I alluded to killing members of ISIS, while stating I understood we would loose people in the effort.

I will agree that indiscriminate bombing will not do the job. We had an excellent opportunity to directly bomb ISIS forces when they were lined up neatly on the road leading to Mosul. Our government officials (we have these things called "Aircraft Carriers" - we didn't use them) declined that opportunity, and is instead engaged in what amounts to indiscriminate bombing. Time to change gears.

Thus far, King Abdullah's forces have engaged in attacks against terrorist training facilities and weapons caches. I would call that "discriminate bombing".
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  #26  
Old 02-06-2015, 10:14 AM
Peter Olivola Peter Olivola is offline
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So, you want to be as uncivilized?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jablonski
Like they don't kill the civilians that don't convert to there brand of religion?
Mr. Bob
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  #27  
Old 02-06-2015, 10:17 AM
Peter Olivola Peter Olivola is offline
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Hindsight is always 20-20. Without authorization from the Iraqi's we would have been in violation of our agreement with them. I find the hindsight justification of illegal acts (the end justifies the means) to be a mark of uncivilized behavior.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironnerd
I re-read my statement, but cannot find any reference to indiscriminate bombing or attacking civilians. I believe I alluded to killing members of ISIS, while stating I understood we would loose people in the effort.

I will agree that indiscriminate bombing will not do the job. We had an excellent opportunity to directly bomb ISIS forces when they were lined up neatly on the road leading to Mosul. Our government officials (we have these things called "Aircraft Carriers" - we didn't use them) declined that opportunity, and is instead engaged in what amounts to indiscriminate bombing. Time to change gears.

Thus far, King Abdullah's forces have engaged in attacks against terrorist training facilities and weapons caches. I would call that "discriminate bombing".
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  #28  
Old 02-06-2015, 10:49 AM
bob jablonski bob jablonski is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Olivola
So, you want to be as uncivilized?

And how would you stop the genocide they are doing? Saying please hasn't worked.
Mr. Bob
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  #29  
Old 02-06-2015, 11:28 AM
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ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
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We need to start answering ruthless behavior of terror groups with even more ruthless behavior.
That is the only thing these neanderthal filthy animals understand.
They need to mix pig's blood and guts in with the bombs and missile warheads as an insult to their religion.
Time to respond in like kind to these POS dirtbags.
Forcibly shave off the ratty-mess beards off the captured scumbags as well.
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  #30  
Old 02-06-2015, 12:25 PM
Peter Olivola Peter Olivola is offline
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You're assuming we have a right to intervene. How about we let someone else deal with their local problems instead of assuming the role of the world's cop. This situation exists substantially because we invaded and destabilized Iraq, a country that had nothing whatsoever to do with the 9/11 attacks. More bad behavior on our part isn't going to fix this. Help when asked. Otherwise, keep our noses out of other people's business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jablonski
And how would you stop the genocide they are doing? Saying please hasn't worked.
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