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  #21  
Old 12-01-2015, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddyisabar
They say super glue is non toxic. The vapor is just an irritant. Originally it was going to be used to glue flesh together! The top men out at range who get a minor cut just superglue it up and keep flying the big motors.

It's still used to glue skin together. It's just medical grade (meaning sterile). I've used hobby grade on myself on several occasions. Just remember that thin fast set CA gets very, very hot when it reacts with the moisture in your skin. Not a big deal unless it's a larger cut that needs a bigger drop of CA.
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  #22  
Old 12-01-2015, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman
Don't use "school glue" it's too thin and watered down, you will get warping on the fins.

The glue I'm using is Elmer's, but it is also labeled "school glue" and "no runs." Seems thick enough to me. It's not runny, so I started using it to "top coat" my standard wood glue fillets. Definitely not runny.

I haven't used it to coat the fins yet. First coat on the nose cone was kind of, "meh." I just applied the glue right out of the bottle and rubbed it in and smoothed it with my fingers. Second coat also not very impressive. Third coat is almost dry now, and it's starting to skin over the balsa giving it a plasticky feel. I see where this is going. BTW, I lightly sand between coats.
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  #23  
Old 12-01-2015, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astronwolf
The glue I'm using is Elmer's, but it is also labeled "school glue" and "no runs." Seems thick enough to me. It's not runny, so I started using it to "top coat" my standard wood glue fillets. Definitely not runny.

I haven't used it to coat the fins yet. First coat on the nose cone was kind of, "meh." I just applied the glue right out of the bottle and rubbed it in and smoothed it with my fingers. Second coat also not very impressive. Third coat is almost dry now, and it's starting to skin over the balsa giving it a plasticky feel. I see where this is going. BTW, I lightly sand between coats.


Okay, then that can work too.

But three costs? I've only needed one coat, that may be the difference.
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  #24  
Old 12-02-2015, 07:46 AM
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How hard does white glue dry? What, if any, conditions re-soften it?
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  #25  
Old 12-02-2015, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by aeppel_cpm
How hard does white glue dry? What, if any, conditions re-soften it?

Heat softens it to some extent, but it shouldn't be an issue for finishing. It can help you if you've glued on your fins and later look at them from below and notice one isn't 90 deg (or 120 for 3). You can heat the fin with a hair dryer and lean it over without breaking anything.
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  #26  
Old 12-02-2015, 11:26 AM
astronwolf astronwolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman
But three costs? I've only needed one coat, that may be the difference.

I suppose I could have just glopped it on and been done with it in one shot. Sort of a plasti-dip for balsa parts.... The glue is thick enough for doing that. Maybe I'll try that with the fins. But I chose to do thin coats on the nose cone, with light sanding between coats. Pete Alway recommended doing that in his Astrobee 1500 kit that I built, so I just went with that. Makes for a nice looking part.
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  #27  
Old 12-02-2015, 01:18 PM
Daddyisabar Daddyisabar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
It's still used to glue skin together. It's just medical grade (meaning sterile). I've used hobby grade on myself on several occasions. Just remember that thin fast set CA gets very, very hot when it reacts with the moisture in your skin. Not a big deal unless it's a larger cut that needs a bigger drop of CA.


The cheap hardware stuff is the best. The quick cure good stuff from the hobby store would be hot. That is another danger of sealing with CA. You get too impatient waiting for it to cure, spray on accelerator but there is some drippage on your finger, yikes that's hot! Or taking off the stuck on cap with your teeth and a bit squirts on your lip and tongue! It is just like the old Emergency TV program back in the 70's. Keep the kids, big and small, using Elmer's!
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  #28  
Old 12-02-2015, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddyisabar
They say super glue is non toxic. The vapor is just an irritant. Originally it was going to be used to glue flesh together! The top men out at range who get a minor cut just superglue it up and keep flying the big motors.

The ultimate in laziness is to just pop out the laser cut fins, self stick label paper them, seal and lightly sand the SQUARE edges with CA. Then surface attach to roughed up tube with tacky glue and two drops of CA on each end of the fin root. Swipe the excess tacky glue with the pinky finger for an instant fillet. The fin is on and secured in less than 10 seconds and when painted looks like glass! No pain and suffering, just the fast, instant gratification so desired in the modern world. Then they fly these balsa and label paper pseudo "Plywood" fins on composite motors. If it is not good enough, they just put in a more powerful motor. No air foiled craftsmanship, no maximum reduction in weight and drag on a small BP motor. NO PAIN, NO PAIN.

OLD SCHOOL RULES! A little pain does one good, just like we had in the black and white movie days. Back then we were going to the moon, now we can't even get into low Earth orbit. The good old days, when you could eat the glue and the cow on the bottle really meant something! Now they just make fun of eating glue on the Simpsons. Those reading such twenty first century technique stuff over on the other forum will just have skulls full of mush and no real skills.

Can't even get my dope at Hobby Lobby anymore. Have to drive across the city to the only hobby shop left, or order it over the fancy "information super highway" on my hand held smarty pants phone. Just need a time machine to go back to wonder of real Elmer's glue, slow built and finished balsa fins, waiting for the day the new Estes catalog arrives, or even better when the folks decide to take a trip to the big city with a hobby store and you can actually see the Saturn 1B kit sitting on the shelf! DREAM about the pain you have building that one. It will not be nearly the pain endured mowing all those lawns to make enough money to afford that super high price tag on the box! That is what builds character. Non instant, real Elmer's glue satisfaction.


Where's that "like" button again?? LOL OL JR
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  #29  
Old 12-02-2015, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeppel_cpm
How hard does white glue dry? What, if any, conditions re-soften it?


"Not Very" and "heat" are the answers you're looking for...

I've heard of fins attached with white glue "falling over" or "leaning" from being enclosed in a hot car in the summer... I use white glue FOR CERTAIN JOBS in building, but attaching fins isn't one of them.

Also, it doesn't sand worth a darn... yellow glue isn't much better on that score. That's why I don't use it for "hardening" balsa cones or transitions or fins-- plus the stuff just flat-out never gets particularly "hard"...

Papering fins with regular printer paper wrapped over the leading edge using a THIN application of white glue to bond the paper to the balsa results in 100% sealing of the balsa fin surface and results in a final appearance as good as plastic in most cases, and results in strengthening the fin by probably 3-5X the plain balsa wood strength for VERY little weight gain... about a gram for most fins, at most, from the "bare vs. final finished weight" tests I've done in the past... Well worth a little bit of time to gain that much strength, eliminating the additional steps of hardening, sanding, filling, etc. Too bad papering doesn't work well for the compound curves of a nosecone or transition (though I have applied paper cone skins over wood transitions-- it's a common building practice for "capsule" nosecones in Dr. Zooch kits, and I've used it in scratchbuilds...

IMHO, "water thin" CA applications to nosecones followed by thinned-to-consistency-of-hot-dog-mustard Elmer's Wood Filler, followed by sanding, priming, sanding, damp sanding, and painting results in the hardest and most durable, as well as the most "plastic like" finish one can get on balsa cones and transitions... At least from everything I've tried...

YMMV and best of luck. OL JR
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  #30  
Old 12-02-2015, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luke strawwalker
"Not Very" and "heat" are the answers you're looking for...

I've heard of fins attached with white glue "falling over" or "leaning" from being enclosed in a hot car in the summer... I use white glue FOR CERTAIN JOBS in building, but attaching fins isn't one of them.

Also, it doesn't sand worth a darn... yellow glue isn't much better on that score. That's why I don't use it for "hardening" balsa cones or transitions or fins-- plus the stuff just flat-out never gets particularly "hard"...

Papering fins with regular printer paper wrapped over the leading edge using a THIN application of white glue to bond the paper to the balsa results in 100% sealing of the balsa fin surface and results in a final appearance as good as plastic in most cases, and results in strengthening the fin by probably 3-5X the plain balsa wood strength for VERY little weight gain... about a gram for most fins, at most, from the "bare vs. final finished weight" tests I've done in the past... Well worth a little bit of time to gain that much strength, eliminating the additional steps of hardening, sanding, filling, etc. Too bad papering doesn't work well for the compound curves of a nosecone or transition (though I have applied paper cone skins over wood transitions-- it's a common building practice for "capsule" nosecones in Dr. Zooch kits, and I've used it in scratchbuilds...

IMHO, "water thin" CA applications to nosecones followed by thinned-to-consistency-of-hot-dog-mustard Elmer's Wood Filler, followed by sanding, priming, sanding, damp sanding, and painting results in the hardest and most durable, as well as the most "plastic like" finish one can get on balsa cones and transitions... At least from everything I've tried...

YMMV and best of luck. OL JR


Well, I don't agree. CA makes the surface brittle.
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