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  #21  
Old 03-27-2016, 09:17 PM
frognbuff frognbuff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
That makes sense, since the model's grid fins' airfoils are really narrow flat plates, which are face-on to the airflow. (I'm not knocking the KZ-1 kit's quality; properly scale-proportioned grid fins are hard to make at its scale.) If the model's grid fins were swept back, it might exhibit more positive (faster-correcting) stability, as it would if swept-back solid plates (or a conical stabilizer) were fitted to the model instead. Also:

If the same model was fitted with scale-proportioned grid fins (whose "strip airfoils" were truly thin strips parallel to the airflow), and if it exhibited a lower level of stability (taking longer to respond--with less restoring force--to perturbing forces) than it has with its current grid fins, that would suggest that the narrow "flat plate strip airfoils" produce ineffective lift (because of the Reynolds Numbers at which such tiny airfoils operate, at the model's airspeeds). Another possible cause for such behavior, if such was observed, could be "choking" of the airflow that 'tried' to pass through the grid fins' airfoils, because they were so closely-spaced. (I think this would be a less likely cause, if such behavior occurred.) Determining the characteristics and capabilities of grid fins on model rockets would be an interesting NARAM R&D project...


Yeah, I'm not convinced producing scale airfoil cross-section grids would be worth the effort due to Reynold's number. Like the propellers on RC airplanes, you might have to oversize the grids to get the full aerodynamic effect. So they probably are just raw base drag - but they work!
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  #22  
Old 03-29-2016, 12:48 PM
Scud-B Scud-B is offline
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My parts arrived today and I'm pleased. I've worked with 3D printed items quite a bit over the years as part of my N scale train hobby but FUD is the most common material there and detail is normally pretty high. The Falcon 9 parts are very robust, something FUD really doesn't allow, and I think the price is fair considering what you get.

I have some work ahead of me to smooth things out but I think they'll really add an extra dimension to this already pretty high quality kit.
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  #23  
Old 03-30-2016, 03:14 PM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scud-B
My parts arrived today and I'm pleased. I've worked with 3D printed items quite a bit over the years as part of my N scale train hobby but FUD is the most common material there and detail is normally pretty high. The Falcon 9 parts are very robust, something FUD really doesn't allow, and I think the price is fair considering what you get.

I have some work ahead of me to smooth things out but I think they'll really add an extra dimension to this already pretty high quality kit.
Good--I'm glad (and I'm sure that Alex and Sheree Boyce are as well!) that you like them. I had never seen--except in online pictures--a 3D printed item until I bought a Cox Nike-Zeus replica from them last year, and I was amazed at its detail, strength, and low weight. They have since refined their 3D printing, as the Falcon 9 parts have fewer and smaller 'inter-print head-path' "ridges." Also:

Is FUD (what is that an abbreviation for?) the green plastic that the first 3D printers used?
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  #24  
Old 03-30-2016, 03:38 PM
Scud-B Scud-B is offline
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FUD = Frosted Ultra Detail. It's a Shapeways specific resin/plastic which produces very fine details at the expense of being brittle. Still, very thin walls are possible and people have been able to print slightly oversized representations of 1/160 rivet heads on some of their models. It's very expensive in my opinion and it's okay for trains but wouldn't likely survive the rigors of flight for very long.
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  #25  
Old 03-30-2016, 03:47 PM
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Comrades,

Here's a picture of what I got in the mail. Two of the legs are right-side-up as are two of the grid fins. I agree that the printing is much improved over where it was even a few years ago. The printing of these parts is similar to the PVC printing used on my prototype K-41 Mercury escape tower

The picture washes them out a little, they are really ivory colored and will need to be painted. Prime with filler primer and then a coat of Gloss White. Fit is OK-- they will need to be sanded to more closely confrom to the rocket. I'm going to wrap the tube with 220 wet/dry and sand lightly until they conform. I'll probably paint first, then sand, then epoxy them on.

I note that my version of the Falcon does not have the grid fins pre-drawn on the body wrap.
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  #26  
Old 03-30-2016, 03:49 PM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scud-B
FUD = Frosted Ultra Detail. It's a Shapeways specific resin/plastic which produces very fine details at the expense of being brittle. Still, very thin walls are possible and people have been able to print slightly oversized representations of 1/160 rivet heads on some of their models. It's very expensive in my opinion and it's okay for trains but wouldn't likely survive the rigors of flight for very long.
Ah--Thank You! Also, thank you for informing me about FUD's brittleness (I had read that Shapeways' plastic requires more surface preparation before painting it because its surface has tiny "pinholes"). FUD still sounds good for non-load-bearing model rocket scale detail parts, though (especially if it can be bonded to paper body tubes, ABS, and styrene using the types of glues normally employed in model rocketry).
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  #27  
Old 03-30-2016, 03:50 PM
Scud-B Scud-B is offline
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That's very interesting, I had assumed all of the Falcon 9 with Fairing kits were pre-printed with that detail.

If there is one great thing about FUD, and there are actually several, its that tge material readily bonds with most hobby grade adhesives. CA is my go to with FUD but epoxy works great as well.

FUD parts come "wet" with support wax which renders them effectively optically translucent until the parts are cleaned. They glue easily, show a lot of detail, and sand easily. I haven't noticed any signifant surface flaws in anything I've bought but I suspect pinholes do occur.
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  #28  
Old 03-30-2016, 03:56 PM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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My apologies--I think you were responding to MarkB.'s posting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scud-B
That's very interesting, I had assumed all of the Falcon 9 with Fairing kits were pre-printed with that detail.
I'm not sure what you're referring to here. The white plastic parts of SpaceX's rocket kits (both the older Falcon 9 and Dragon and the new Falcon 9 and Fairing [I have both]) look like they were injection-molded (the Dragon capsule in the older kit might have been blow-molded--I don't have mine handy to look at right now).
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  #29  
Old 03-30-2016, 03:58 PM
Scud-B Scud-B is offline
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That was in reply to MarkB's post higher up. He noted that his kit didn't have pre-printed grid fins.
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  #30  
Old 03-30-2016, 04:06 PM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB.
Comrades,

Here's a picture of what I got in the mail. Two of the legs are right-side-up as are two of the grid fins. I agree that the printing is much improved over where it was even a few years ago. The printing of these parts is similar to the PVC printing used on my prototype K-41 Mercury escape tower

The picture washes them out a little, they are really ivory colored and will need to be painted. Prime with filler primer and then a coat of Gloss White. Fit is OK-- they will need to be sanded to more closely confrom to the rocket. I'm going to wrap the tube with 220 wet/dry and sand lightly until they conform. I'll probably paint first, then sand, then epoxy them on.

I note that my version of the Falcon does not have the grid fins pre-drawn on the body wrap.
Thank you for posting the photograph! Is that a Falcon 9 and Fairing kit that lacks the printed-on grid fins, or is it a Falcon 9 and Dragon capsule kit? (If it's the former, it would be accurate for the "pre-reusable first stage" version of the Falcon v1.1 with fairing.)
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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
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