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  #11  
Old 03-01-2017, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
.
NASA needs funding immune from political considerations via a Constitutional Amendment.


Not just no, but HELL NO!!!!

NASA does not need immunity from getting things done like that amendment would guarantee would happen. They'd spend all their money on expanding headcount and nothing else.
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  #12  
Old 03-01-2017, 02:32 PM
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Joe you are WRONG WRONG WRONGGGGGGG.
Typical "gubmint baddddd" attitude of the WRONG end of the spectrum.
This would guarantee ZERO artificial arbitrary timeline pressures due to the WRONG first-priority 'almighty dollar'.
We need real exploratory NEW goals just like Apollo in the 60's with the close to limitless budget it had as well. Yes it would provide LOTS of high-income jobs. I don't care about deficit spending to do it either. The deficit is largely meaningless to anyone except the idiot bean-counters that focus on it needlessly.
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  #13  
Old 03-01-2017, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Wooten
Not just no, but HELL NO!!!!

NASA does not need immunity from getting things done like that amendment would guarantee would happen. They'd spend all their money on expanding headcount and nothing else.


Exactly...

I'm pretty well convinced that NASA isn't going anywhere and doing anything so long as it's more concerned with "ten healthy centers" than about accomplishments.

Even the engineers and technicians within NASA have said that the main problem with NASA is a generation of career government bureaucrat managers who have an entitlement attitude and whose priority is job security rather than accomplishment of any goal or furthering the space program.

So long as NASA is "just another gubmint bureaucracy", nothing is going to change. It's like those holdover agencies that lasted from the 30's into the 80's or 90's who FAR outlived their original purpose that were FINALLY done away with because they were just completely irrelevant money pits. NASA isn't there yet, but if it keeps going the way it is, I can see the day approaching that it will be.

Later! OL J R

PS. I CAN agree with some sort of requirement (Constitutional amendment, whatever) that REQUIRES there be NO UNFUNDED "MANDATES" from the gubmint... INCLUDING for NASA... if the Congress is going to approve a program, they SHOULD BE REQUIRED to have a realistic funding budget allocation for it and that should be reviewed year by year for progress/cost. Congress has gotten into the habit of approving specific programs and then perpetually underfunding them, so that in the end they cost 10X the original "estimates" (had they been funded correctly-- stretching things out inevitably drives costs up by multiples of the original program cost estimates due to extended facilities/personnel costs) and usually end up being canceled around the time something useful might start to emerge from the effort. NASA history is LITTERED with such programs.
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  #14  
Old 03-01-2017, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
Joe you are WRONG WRONG WRONGGGGGGG.
Typical "gubmint baddddd" attitude of the WRONG end of the spectrum.
This would guarantee ZERO artificial arbitrary timeline pressures due to the WRONG first-priority 'almighty dollar'.
We need real exploratory NEW goals just like Apollo in the 60's with the close to limitless budget it had as well. Yes it would provide LOTS of high-income jobs. I don't care about deficit spending to do it either. The deficit is largely meaningless to anyone except the idiot bean-counters that focus on it needlessly.


Wrong...

I can agree with the "goal" aspect of what you're saying, but the "unlimited funding" and total lack of accountability would just ensure that BILLIONS MORE are poured down useless ratholes to no purpose.

NASA is broken because it's a gubmint bureaucracy run by a political bureaucracy. It's pretty simple when you get down to it. One of the FIRST things that should be done to fix things is STOP the revolving door between public service positions between NASA, the government, lobbying, and industry. That needs to stop because if anybody SERIOUSLY believes that it doesn't lead to "cherry picking" of solutions from particular sources, they are seriously deluding themselves.

Later! OL J R

PS. that's an enormous issue in ALL areas, not just NASA.
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  #15  
Old 03-01-2017, 09:52 PM
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Another typical WRONGGGGG "Gubmint Badddddd" attitude.
The Constitutional Amendment would GUARANTEE it is FREE from political bureaucracy. I have NO problem with many Government Bureaucracies and MOST are neccessary and prudent. Whack-jobs with the "gubmint badddd" attitude are largely responsible for the crumbling infrastructure and downward spiraling public schools.
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When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL
, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !

Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC !
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  #16  
Old 03-01-2017, 10:17 PM
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Contest flying, Sport flying, it's all good.....
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  #17  
Old 03-01-2017, 10:50 PM
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For a change, George has posted something actually FUNNY.
That graphical post was hilarious.

To get this back on track, does ANYONE think this will actually happen in two years when this vehicle has not even been flown at ALL ?
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When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL
, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !

Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC !
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  #18  
Old 03-02-2017, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
To get this back on track, does ANYONE think this will actually happen in two years when this vehicle has not even been flown at ALL ?



Will it really matter as there will be neither Sport Scale nor Concept Scale at NARAMs by then?

As for NASA, at least it will be getting out of the Muslim outreach business...


Bill
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  #19  
Old 03-02-2017, 07:25 AM
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If SpaceX stacks up a few Falcon Heavies and launch them over the next several months AND they fly the first manned Falcon 9 mission in the next 6 months, I'd say there would be a tiny chance by the end of 2018. I don't see either happening, therefore I don't see a circum lunar mission by the deadline.
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  #20  
Old 03-02-2017, 10:15 AM
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One big thing they need to test before a manned lunar mission is Dragon entry at lunar speeds.

That said, they might still pull off the equivalent of the Apollo 7 and 8 1-2-punch.


Bill
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If your June, July, August and September was like this, you might just hate summer too...

Please unload your question before you ask it unless you have a concealed harry permit.

: countdown begin cr dup . 1- ?dup 0= until cr ." Launch!" cr ;

Give a man a rocket and he will fly for a day; teach him to build and he will spend the rest of his days sanding...
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