Ye Olde Rocket Forum

Go Back   Ye Olde Rocket Forum > The Doctor is In! > Ask the Doctor
User Name
Password
Auctions Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts Search Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21  
Old 10-18-2008, 12:36 PM
Royatl's Avatar
Royatl Royatl is offline
SPEV/Orion wrangler
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,645
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scigs30
I am still curious if Estes is making their own balsa nose cones or if they are contracted out.


I was wondering that myself. A couple of years ago Bill Saindon (BMS) said he had acquired a machine that would allow him to make "mass quantities" of certain nose cone shapes more economically. I wondered then if he had gotten that machinery from Estes, though others thought that probably Estes had gotten rid of that equipment a decade ago. If they then contracted back out to him, they don't need to risk the capital investment in new equipment in case they aren't popular, and they can get just the quantities they need.
__________________
Roy
nar12605
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-18-2008, 12:59 PM
dwmzmm's Avatar
dwmzmm dwmzmm is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Katy, TX
Posts: 2,345
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Royatl
I was wondering that myself. A couple of years ago Bill Saindon (BMS) said he had acquired a machine that would allow him to make "mass quantities" of certain nose cone shapes more economically. I wondered then if he had gotten that machinery from Estes, though others thought that probably Estes had gotten rid of that equipment a decade ago. If they then contracted back out to him, they don't need to risk the capital investment in new equipment in case they aren't popular, and they can get just the quantities they need.


Maybe that's why the BMS Kit of the Month program has slowed down some?!.......
__________________
Dave, NAR # 21853 SR.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-18-2008, 03:25 PM
Rocket Doctor Rocket Doctor is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ltvscout
Since they went to balsa cones, that would be hard to do. My guess is they no longer have the mold for the original cone. I know that making those molds is very expensive. What I don't understand is why they're not offering the original fin can on the Phoenix Bird? It's the same as the Eliminator, et al, they'd just have to inject with a different color plastic. The press release says it uses TTW fins. That could be a typo though like I'm hoping those Centuri-kit tube dimensions are typos.


In my opinion, it seems that they are getting away from plastic. As you had mentioned, the price of molds are very expensive, the price of oil is still high causing higher material costs and you don't know what ic coming out of China these days. Mattel knows all about that.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-18-2008, 03:34 PM
Rocket Doctor Rocket Doctor is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikus
I am encouraged by this, I hope Estes hits their marks. I will certainly buy several of these kits if they do make it to market.

But I would have liked to see more bring backs having attributes that prevent or otherwise substantially deter cloning. Things like funky nose cones, wing pods and other parts that can't be bought or made without some sort of casting setup out in the garage. Call me blasphemer, but I'm asking for more plastic I guess. I mean some of these are pretty cool kits but let's face it, how many 3FNCs can one do before boredom sets in? And can't most of these be cloned already?

And then I see the Maxi-Brutes regularly going for $75+ bucks with the Saturn V and Mercury Atlas kits almost never selling for less than $125 on ebay. I believe if I ran a model rocket company owning those designs, I'd try to get myself a little bit of that money; esp. with next year being the 40th anniversary of Apollo 11. I guess obtaining the parts for those kits would be too expensive for the profit margin Estes is trying to achieve.

In fact I kinda see 2 goals behind this particular selection of bring backs, although both are, of course, just theories. One is to play off the nostalgia craze at the cheapest cost possible - hence picking designs that can use already readily available balsa nose cones and bits rather than needing to cast new plastic parts. Two is to take a swing at taking away some of their competitors' cloning business.

Am I being overly paranoid? Do you think we'll ever see some of the more exotic designs from the past as "Classics"? Would you agree that the future of Estes bring backs pretty much hinges on these selling very well?


Estes is going back to their roots, so many have voiced their displeasure with too much plastic, too many RTF's and not having "classic kits". Now, Estes has begun to change, listening to their customers.

It has nothing to do with any other rocket company, I guess after hearing so much feedback, from both forums, they figured, why not mave in another direction.

Estes started off with these kits, and, as I had mentioned previously, Estes and centuri became one company, they all all of the documentations, why not use it.

Maybe the dimensions aren't totally the same, but, like I also mentioned before, that would be like starting a totally new company in my opinion.

You can only carry so much in stock, before it gets out of hand.

Right now, estes have over 80 different nose cones in plastic, that's a lot of molds, and with the price of raw material on the rise on a regular basis, that would be prohibitive.

There giving us the balsa we requested, there giving us the "bring backs" as we requested, there giving us the motors we have requested.

In my opinion, I don't know what more Estes can do to show the hobby world that they are open to suggestiongs and willing to make changes.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-18-2008, 03:38 PM
Rocket Doctor Rocket Doctor is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Royatl
I was wondering that myself. A couple of years ago Bill Saindon (BMS) said he had acquired a machine that would allow him to make "mass quantities" of certain nose cone shapes more economically. I wondered then if he had gotten that machinery from Estes, though others thought that probably Estes had gotten rid of that equipment a decade ago. If they then contracted back out to him, they don't need to risk the capital investment in new equipment in case they aren't popular, and they can get just the quantities they need.


Not from BMS, back in 2005 when I waanted to have the Astron Scout brought back for the 50th anniversary, BMS was contacted, but, the project was dropped and that was that.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 10-18-2008, 04:28 PM
Royatl's Avatar
Royatl Royatl is offline
SPEV/Orion wrangler
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,645
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Doctor
Not from BMS, back in 2005 when I waanted to have the Astron Scout brought back for the 50th anniversary, BMS was contacted, but, the project was dropped and that was that.


yea, but he apparently didn't have the machinery back then for high volume. What sort of numbers was Estes thinking about in 2005? Just a WAG that it would be at least 2500 to make it worth their while, maybe more. In 1991 they made that 2500 unit run of Mars Snoopers, but that was when they still had the machinery (2500 each of a nose cone and a transition, 7500 each of the two pod cones, + extras for warrantee)
__________________
Roy
nar12605
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-18-2008, 05:42 PM
Rocket Doctor Rocket Doctor is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Royatl
yea, but he apparently didn't have the machinery back then for high volume. What sort of numbers was Estes thinking about in 2005? Just a WAG that it would be at least 2500 to make it worth their while, maybe more. In 1991 they made that 2500 unit run of Mars Snoopers, but that was when they still had the machinery (2500 each of a nose cone and a transition, 7500 each of the two pod cones, + extras for warrantee)


Bringing back the Scout had nothing to do with the capacity to produce balsa parts , rather the anniversary itself.

Hence, the Golden Scout program.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-18-2008, 06:03 PM
scigs30 scigs30 is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,261
Default

Now if we can only get Estes to improve on their waterslide decals.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 10-18-2008, 08:13 PM
gpoehlein's Avatar
gpoehlein gpoehlein is offline
Paper Rocketeer
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 1,181
Default

All I can say is, if Estes follows through and brings out those kits and the new (old) motors, I will happily buy many of the kits and lots of the A8-0 motors (I already have a large stock of A10-0T motors so I won't need any of those for a while )

Greg
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 10-18-2008, 08:29 PM
Rocket Doctor Rocket Doctor is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,400
Default

The seventeen kits listed in the beginning of this post are scheduled to be released between March and June 2009.


It would be safe to say that the two motors the A8-0's and the A10-0T's would be available in the same time period. The B6-0 are out now.

The remaining 25 kits are scheduled for release in the summer of 2009, probably August to Oct, just a guess.

There are more in the works, as well as updates to the present kit line as well.

Keep checking the Estes web pag for updates www.estesrockets.com

Information will be posted there on the releases and any other additional information.

Remember that they are using BALSA nose cones, Laseer cut BALSA fins and waterslide decals.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:08 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ye Olde Rocket Shoppe © 1998-2024