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  #11  
Old 01-11-2006, 01:48 PM
ecumsecumguy ecumsecumguy is offline
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Well...I got my Maxi V2 kit and I'm wondering if it is worth spending the time or money upgrading. I'm debating buying a kit such as the Precision LOC 3.92" V2 kit and building the Estes as stock and running it on the recommended E motors once in a while.

Any thoughts? all feedback appreciated. I'd really like to put together a decent 4" V2 kit that would handle a RMS system.
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  #12  
Old 01-11-2006, 07:56 PM
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ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
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A few words of advice regarding your Maxi V2 (and all other Estes "Maxi-Brutes")...they barely fly decent on an Estes D12 let alone an E9 as the initial thrust of these motors is barely adequate for safe speed. I highly reccommend using the Aerotech RMS 24 in some of the lower thrust varieties (D-E-F BlackJack loads and some of the WhiteLightning loads) are fine in decently constructed (with proper fillets on the fins and motor centering rings) basically stock Maxi-Brutes. Just stay away from the BlueThunder F39 high-thrust loads unless you beef up the kit (epoxy construction and fillets). My Estes Saturn V flies really well on the RMS24 system, but is a relative dawg on an Estes D12; I would not even try it on an E9-4 as some claim will work. The RMS 24 would provide some really thrilling flights in the Super Big Bertha also. Quite frankly, I find the Estes E9 to be far too low in thrust for ANY sort of 4" diameter high-drag kit unless flown in zero wind with a LONG (around 5') launch rod.
Any wind causes the 4" rockets powered by an E9 to generally veer wildly off the intended flight path. Now on smaller (up to about 2.6") diameter rockets, such as the super big bertha, the E9 is a great motor.
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  #13  
Old 01-11-2006, 10:47 PM
ecumsecumguy ecumsecumguy is offline
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Thanks for the response!

Serendipity!

I also just happen to have a "super Big Bertha" in my closet that I just bought a month or so ago to give to my son for his birthday in March. Now I'm wondering if I should upgrade this as well to a 24 mm RMS.

thoughts? Recommended vendors for the upgrade of each?
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  #14  
Old 01-12-2006, 09:31 AM
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ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
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The "upgrade" you speak of for both would consist of using epoxy (instead of wood-glue) for construction as well as fillets and possibly using harder balsa for fins.
Pick a vendor....it is not that hard to find good epoxy (I use Pacer/Z-poxy or West System) or good hard balsa (any hobby shop).
Mid-power (D-E-F-G composites) is really not much different than regular model rocket construction...SOME (but not all) mid-power kits do use TTW (through the tube wall) fin attachment like used on Hi-Power (H engine on up), but that is about it other than using stronger adhesives.
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When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL
, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !

Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC !

Last edited by ghrocketman : 01-12-2006 at 10:15 AM.
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  #15  
Old 01-13-2006, 07:04 PM
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barone barone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecumsecumguy


I also just happen to have a "super Big Bertha" in my closet that I just bought a month or so ago to give to my son for his birthday in March. Now I'm wondering if I should upgrade this as well to a 24 mm RMS.

thoughts? Recommended vendors for the upgrade of each?


I modified my Super Big Bertha for 29mm. Just bought a 29mm motor mount kit and tube connector from Aerotech. Seperation in the middle instead of nose cone. No other mods except using the long shock cords that come with the Aerotech kits. Flys great on Gs. Make sure you get the fins on straight and make a strong fillet. I think my fins aren't truely straight because I get a reallly spin stabilized flight......

Don
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  #16  
Old 01-15-2006, 12:52 PM
ecumsecumguy ecumsecumguy is offline
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Thanks! I am going ot upgrade both. I have a couple of questions:

Will the maxi-v2 and the Suepr Big bertha both fly reasonably well on 24 mm motors? I'm not looking for super high flights, just something better than a a few hundred feet.

I'm debating adhesives with my engineering buddy..he is a big fan of the polyurethane glues out now and was suggesting that instead of epoxies.

I'd like to get a fin anlignment guide like the old ESTES one but they seem impossible to get. Apparently they are oop. Any ideas on a source for such a thing?

Any thoughts appreciated.
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  #17  
Old 01-15-2006, 02:09 PM
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ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
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Both of these will fly well with the 24mm RMS Aerotech motors.
The Super Big Bertha will also fly well with the Estes D12 and E9 in addition to the RMS 24.
The Super BB may approach 2500-3000 feet with the largest (F) 24mm RMS loads.
For the V2 you will probably max out at about 1500.
Note these altitudes are approximations/guesses; I did not run them through RocSim.
I too am an engineer and I would reccommend against the use of polyurethane type glues for rocketry use for several reasons:

1) They do not penetrate the "substrate" (wood fins, centering rings, body tube) as well as long (30+ min) cure epoxies do.
2) Common Polyurethane/Urethane glues do not have the bonding strength that a good epoxy does.
3) If urethane was better, the majority of the high-power community would already be using them; they DON'T.
4) Heat resistance between the two may be a toss-up.
5) Use an adhesive that has been well proven for rocketry, epoxy, and you will be flying ; don't do this and you may be venturing into an R&D area that may prove to have less than optimal results ; I would say you want your first large rocketry and RMS motor endeavors to be successful, not an experiment, correct ?

If you really want to try urethane glues, I suggest you start with small rockets for this glue then work your way up to the bigger stuff (above C engine) that may (most likely) be stressed (shredded fins, motor mount separation from airframe, etc) to failure.
__________________
When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL
, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !

Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC !
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  #18  
Old 01-15-2006, 03:32 PM
ecumsecumguy ecumsecumguy is offline
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thank You!

I appreciate the response. I'm learning by asking that's for sure.

I talked to one of the rocket shops about stiffening my Maxi-V2 fins..he suggested epoxy and micro ballons mixed in to fill the fins..sounds interesting.....luckily my friend uses both in his business. I'm thinking of trying it.
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  #19  
Old 01-15-2006, 03:46 PM
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CPMcGraw CPMcGraw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecumsecumguy
I'd like to get a fin anlignment guide like the old ESTES one but they seem impossible to get. Apparently they are oop. Any ideas on a source for such a thing?

Any thoughts appreciated.


Try using one or more instances of 0.05" thick matteboard, with a hole in the center matching the outer diameter of the tube, and slots cut for thickness of the fins. Just trim out the corners where the glue joint will be so it doesn't get "stuck" in place. This is much cheaper than locating one of those guides, and you can use the same technique to make any alignment guide you'll ever need.

I now include patterns in all of the newer BARCLONE plans to do this, as I find it works much better than the Estes jig. Did I mention, it's much cheaper, too...
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  #20  
Old 01-15-2006, 03:58 PM
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Doug Sams Doug Sams is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecumsecumguy
Thanks! I am going ot upgrade both. I have a couple of questions:

Will the ... the Super Big bertha both fly reasonably well on 24 mm motors?


The 2.6" and larger kits are good candidates for upgrading to 29mm. You can still fly them on 24's with an adaptor. That said, I'm working on a SBB with a 24mm mount, but added 8 smaller tubes for a nine motor cluster.


http://home.flash.net/~samily/SBB/SBB3.jpg

Fully loaded it will likely have four A10's plugged, four C6's popping the chute and a plugged E9 in the middle. On small fields, I should be able to fly it on four A10's, a D11-P and four A8's, B4's or B6's.

Unlike most Berthas, this one will need noseweight. Not much, but with all nine motors loaded, it's down to 0 CP/CG margin.

Doug
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