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  #21  
Old 12-03-2010, 04:48 PM
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tbzep tbzep is offline
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Originally Posted by Royatl
Right, they had a Titan III E satellite launcher. Not a Gemini-Titan.

They also did a smaller scale Gemini-Titan, based on BT-60 instead of BT-70, that used a fully molded Gemini command and service module (K-21's nose cone was just the command module), and a molded plastic fin unit in clear plastic, that has been used in later models in opaque plastic.


That was the same clear fin unit as the Beta Launch Vehicle, wasn't it?

The BLV is a generic knockoff of a Titan booster (possibly also a SPEV).
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  #22  
Old 12-03-2010, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royatl
Right, they had a Titan III E satellite launcher. Not a Gemini-Titan.

They also did a smaller scale Gemini-Titan, based on BT-60 instead of BT-70, that used a fully molded Gemini command and service module (K-21's nose cone was just the command module), and a molded plastic fin unit in clear plastic, that has been used in later models in opaque plastic.

Thats what I was thinking about the titan IIE! Can anyone tell me how long the BT70 tube was they used for the gemini titan?
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  #23  
Old 12-03-2010, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by CPMcGraw
#1977 GeoSAT LV
Craig,

After looking around on ninfinger, that's what I was leaning towards, but now that I'm home and have looked at my GeoSAT LV, I'm not sure. It appears to be BT-55 to BT-60 payload, and has an 18mm motor tube. The outboards are BT-50.

Conversely, the Titan IIIe is listed as 2.22" in the catalogs, and D-powered.

Not sure what the IIIe shared parts with, but it looks like the Geo Sat LV wasn't a SPEV for it.

Maybe the GSLV shared parts with one of the shuttle kits? Did any of those have BT-50 outboards?

I thought the shuttle outboards were BT-20, and shared nosecones with the Yankee, so I'm really stumped now.

Doug

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  #24  
Old 12-04-2010, 10:49 PM
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Seeing these GT threads got me curious to see if I could model the engine tubes in SolidWorks and come up with the proper rings. I have used the Estes instructions and notes gleaned from these threads:
http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?p=78380

http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=494

http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=8003

I came up with the following. Could somebody that has an Estes K-21 verify my dimensions L & W? I got L = 1.72 W = 2.18. I used 3.5 deg tilt, and a 1.25" long JT-70 coupler. If I am interpreting the Alway drawing in ROTW correctly, the Estes engine bells don't extend as far below the bottom of the main body as a true scale -- is that correct?

Also, is the K-21 BT-70 18" long? I believe a scale length would be 17.42" (based on 1:54.1272 scale)

I overlayed the centering rings created by SolidWorks for this assembly on top of the rings drawn by Kurt, and come up pretty close. The forward (top) ring is dead-on. My aft (bottom) ring seems to be a little wider spacing.

Also as mentioned on one of the these threads, I like the idea of the alternate nose assy, so the parachute packs into the BT-70. I have included an exploded view for those interested.
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  #25  
Old 12-04-2010, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Sams
Craig,

After looking around on ninfinger, that's what I was leaning towards, but now that I'm home and have looked at my GeoSAT LV, I'm not sure. It appears to be BT-55 to BT-60 payload, and has an 18mm motor tube. The outboards are BT-50.

Conversely, the Titan IIIe is listed as 2.22" in the catalogs, and D-powered.

Not sure what the IIIe shared parts with, but it looks like the Geo Sat LV wasn't a SPEV for it.

Maybe the GSLV shared parts with one of the shuttle kits? Did any of those have BT-50 outboards?

I thought the shuttle outboards were BT-20, and shared nosecones with the Yankee, so I'm really stumped now.

Doug

.

The Titan IIIE used BT-70 for the payload section and BT-60 for the core Titan and the external solid motors strapped on the side of the Titan core. The Estes full-stack Space Shuttle (1284) used Centuri ST-20 (BT-67 in the instructions) for the ET and ST-8 (BT-46) for the SRBs. The GeoSat LV used a BT-55 main body with a BT-60 clear payload section. The GeoSat LV outboard nose cone/nozzle assemblies appear different from the ones used for the SRBs on the Shuttle. The SRB cones and nozzles are separate pieces in that kit, not a single piece that needs to be cut in two.

Note that the adapter in the GeoSat LV is used again in the SDI Satellite (2003).
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  #26  
Old 12-04-2010, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketguy101
Also, is the K-21 BT-70 18" long? I believe a scale length would be 17.42" (based on 1:54.1272 scale)



The standard length for the BT-70 is 17.5" according to the 1974 Custom Parts Catalog. Even the full length of BT-70 that I have is 1/2" shorter than a full length of BT-60.
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  #27  
Old 12-04-2010, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketguy101
Seeing these GT threads got me curious to see if I could model the engine tubes in SolidWorks and come up with the proper rings. I have used the Estes instructions and notes gleaned from these threads:
http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?p=78380

http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=494

http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=8003

I came up with the following. Could somebody that has an Estes K-21 verify my dimensions L & W? I got L = 1.72 W = 2.18. I used 3.5 deg tilt, and a 1.25" long JT-70 coupler. If I am interpreting the Alway drawing in ROTW correctly, the Estes engine bells don't extend as far below the bottom of the main body as a true scale -- is that correct?

Also, is the K-21 BT-70 18" long? I believe a scale length would be 17.42" (based on 1:54.1272 scale)

I overlayed the centering rings created by SolidWorks for this assembly on top of the rings drawn by Kurt, and come up pretty close. The forward (top) ring is dead-on. My aft (bottom) ring seems to be a little wider spacing.

Also as mentioned on one of the these threads, I like the idea of the alternate nose assy, so the parachute packs into the BT-70. I have included an exploded view for those interested.



It's been my *opinion* that the holes in the aft ring are farther apart than Kurt's drawing, but a little narrower than your drawing. However, in the attachment, which is a slightly blurry photo of an actual kit part, it appears to be closer to Kurt's drawing.



The engine bells do extend past the aft former ring on the engine tubes, and they do touch, or almost touch, depending on how loose or tight the builder has made the shrouds.
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  #28  
Old 12-05-2010, 12:36 AM
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to bad estes wont bring this great kit back....I think it would be great to make a "Nasa" section in the catalog, Mercury Redstone, Atlas, Gemini Titan, Titan IIIE, Saturn 1B, Saturn V, and Space Shuttle. People love these rockets, with the exception of the Saturn V whens the last time we have seen these? Seriously people really like these rockets just look how much one goes for on Ebay. end Rant
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  #29  
Old 12-05-2010, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metlfreak
to bad estes wont bring this great kit back....I think it would be great to make a "Nasa" section in the catalog, Mercury Redstone, Atlas, Gemini Titan, Titan IIIE, Saturn 1B, Saturn V, and Space Shuttle. People love these rockets, with the exception of the Saturn V whens the last time we have seen these? Seriously people really like these rockets just look how much one goes for on Ebay. end Rant



...and the Thor Agena-B.


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  #30  
Old 12-05-2010, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill
...and the Thor Agena-B.


Bill

O yes I forgot that one.
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