Ye Olde Rocket Forum

Go Back   Ye Olde Rocket Forum > Work Bench > Vendors
User Name
Password
Auctions Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts Search Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-23-2011, 11:07 AM
Sunward's Avatar
Sunward Sunward is offline
At mad scientist basement
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 515
Default DOT-SP 7887, DOT-SP 7887 Show Cause Letter and Estes’ Response

the following was sent by Estes to some vendors. Re-posted with permission.

URGENT NOTICE– YOUR SUPPORT IS NEEDED

Re: DOT-SP 7887, DOT-SP 7887 Show Cause Letter and Estes’ Response

Attn: Model Rocketry Product Manufacturers:

As a participant and supplier in the world of model rocketry, we believe you have a stake in the shipping of model rocket engines and igniters. We are writing to advise you of recent developments and to ask for your action and support.

On August 15, 2011 all grantees authorized to use DOT – SP 7887 received a Show Cause letter from the US Dept of Transportation (DOT). The Special Permit, DOT – SP 7887 allows the shipment of model rocket motors (engines) and igniters in limited quantities to be shipped as Flammable Solids. The Show Cause letter advised that additional testing of model rocket motors is needed to determine if they may be excluded from the classification of Explosives. After an evaluation of the testing to which the letter referred, it was determined that model rocket motors would not meet the criteria for exclusion.

The letter further advises that whether or not model rocket motors meet the criteria, DOT is proposing to terminate the Special Permit. The Special Permit has been in place since 1978. In 33 years there have been no incidents involved in the shipping and transporting of model rocket motors and igniters.

Model rockets, engines/motors and their igniters are shipped to educators, youth group leaders, children and their families for educational and recreational purposes. Model rocket motors and igniters have an excellent record with regard to shipping and transportation. We are very concerned that having to use an Explosives label on packages of engines and igniters projects a frightening message and an exaggerated risk to those receiving the packages. Model rocket engines and igniters do not ignite spontaneously and they don’t EXPLODE. They are propellant devices.

Shipping engines and igniters as 1.4S explosives is not a great deal more difficult from a technical standpoint nor is it a lot more expensive. However, the word “explosives” on a bright orange hazardous materials label creates more concern than does a flammable solid label! Boxes of model rocket engines and igniters sitting in the back rooms of hobby shops, large distribution centers, wholesalers’ warehouses and school supply closets will likely garner far more attention from fire prevention personnel, insurance investigators, school administrators, OSHA inspectors and most importantly from the parents of young rocket enthusiasts!

Therefore, Estes as well as Quest Aerospace and RCS/Aerotech have sent responses to the US DOT requesting that the Special Permit, DOT – SP 7887 not be terminated. And we are asking re-shippers of our products to send responses to DOT as well as this will impact their shipments.

As a supplier of model rocket products, you too have an interest in the future of DOT-SP 7887. Termination of the Special Permit may have a very negative and long-term impact on our hobby.

If you believe as we do, that termination of the Special Permit is not warranted, we ask you to send an email or letter via email supporting our requests to keep the Special Permit in place and to protest its termination. The email or letter or both should be sent to DOT as soon as possible and preferably prior to October 2, 2011. To assist you, a sample letter is enclosed that you may customize.

The email address to which emails and letters should be sent is: specialpermits@dot.gov Please use “DOT-SP 7887 Show Cause Response” as the email subject. To assist us, please bcc mroberts@centurims.com or one of the other engine manufacturers.

As you will note in Estes’ response to the Show Cause letter, we intend to petition for permanent relief. If we are to succeed we will need the support of the industry and consumers alike.

Therefore we again ask for your support and action on this important issue. Thank you. We will keep you up-dated!

Mary Roberts

Copies of the Special Permit, Show Cause Letter, Estes’ Response and Sample Letter are attached.

(Only the show response letter has been attached as a pdf. Originally sent as a .docx file)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Hobbico-Estes response to show cause letter.pdf (78.5 KB, 230 views)
__________________
Angelo Castellano
Sunward Group Limited
www.sunward1.com
www.sunwardhobbies.ca
info@sunward1.com
CAR S573 L2 TRA 11312 L1 NAR 87131
www.facebook.com/sunwardrockets
www.google.com/+SunwardHobbiesToronto
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-23-2011, 11:56 AM
Shreadvector's Avatar
Shreadvector Shreadvector is offline
Launching since 1970.
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,037
Default

To make it perfectly clear, only manufacturers and suppliers (those who sell and ship model rocket motors) should write letters.

End users should stand by and support the manufacturers and suppliers.

Or did Mary request that end users/consumers write and submit a flood of letters??? I'm too busy to call and ask and since you have persmission to repost this info, I assume you can get official clarification and post that here.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-23-2011, 03:38 PM
Sunward's Avatar
Sunward Sunward is offline
At mad scientist basement
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 515
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreadvector
.. I'm too busy to call and ask and since you have persmission to repost this info, I assume you can get official clarification and post that here.

the letter was addressed to vendors.
__________________
Angelo Castellano
Sunward Group Limited
www.sunward1.com
www.sunwardhobbies.ca
info@sunward1.com
CAR S573 L2 TRA 11312 L1 NAR 87131
www.facebook.com/sunwardrockets
www.google.com/+SunwardHobbiesToronto
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-23-2011, 04:06 PM
Joe Wooten's Avatar
Joe Wooten Joe Wooten is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 818
Default

Here we go again. Stand by for more useless and irritating government regulation changes.

Hope and Change are still alive and well........
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-23-2011, 10:46 PM
Earl's Avatar
Earl Earl is offline
Apollo Nut
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,539
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Wooten
Here we go again. Stand by for more useless and irritating government regulation changes.

Hope and Change are still alive and well........


Oh, 'change' is certainly alive, but I'm not certain that I'd put the 'well' label on it.

'Hope', I'm afraid to say, may have caught the last train to Clarksville some months ago.


Earl
__________________
Earl L. Cagle, Jr.
NAR# 29523
TRA# 962
SAM# 73
Owner/Producer
Point 39 Productions

Rocket-Brained Since 1970
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-24-2011, 02:18 AM
mycrofte's Avatar
mycrofte mycrofte is offline
Trust me, it'll work!
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,627
Default

In my opinion, yet another instance where someone wants to make changes simply to validate having their job!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-24-2011, 10:09 AM
shockwaveriderz shockwaveriderz is offline
rocket dinosaur
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 771
Thumbs down

folks this is being forced upon us by the fedgov's desire for UN harmonization......with their Transport of Dangerous goods

http://www.phmsa.dot.gov/portal/sit...vgnextfmt=print


http://www.phmsa.dot.gov/portal/sit...vgnextfmt=print

http://citizen.org/trade/harmonization/

Harmonization - straight out of 1984's NewSpeak



Terry Dean
__________________
"Old Rocketeer's don't die; they just go OOP"

Last edited by shockwaveriderz : 09-24-2011 at 10:43 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-28-2011, 05:06 PM
jharding58's Avatar
jharding58 jharding58 is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Kennesaw, GA
Posts: 1,932
Default End User/Consumer Response

Perhaps an opprtune time to chime in with regard to the proposed suspension of DOT-SP 7887 regarding the labelling of rocket motors as flammable materials as opposed to Explosives. Estes published a pro forma in their recent email subscription service which would seem beneficial to all that ship motors either as consumer, wholesaler, or retailer.

The address to which the response should be sent is:

specialpermits@dot.gov

The subject line should be:

DOT-SP 7887 Show Cause Response

Suggested copy for the email:

Dear Associate Administrator,

The purpose of this e-mail is to request that DOT-SP 7887 be kept in force as written. The Special Permit, previously DOT-E 7887 has been in place since 1978 and is used by many of us who enjoy hobbies including model rockets, motors and igniters.

To my knowledge, there has never been a reported incident involving the shipping or transporting of model rocket motors and igniters. Further, I believe that shipping these products as "Explosives" with attendant packaging requirements will create unnecessary fear and difficulty for those handling, transporting, receiving, storing, selling and using these products. Moreover the labelling as such will instill into the hobby a sense of public concern that that is both inappropriate and unwarranted.

After 33 years of use, the termination of the Special Permit is neither required, nor in the best interest of the public. Moreover such a move would be assuredly damaging to an educational and recreational product that has an excellent record. In closing, I again request the Special Permit be kept in place as written.

Include your name and address here
__________________
Gravity is a harsh mistress
SAM 002
NAR 91005
"The complexity of living is eminently favored to the simplicity of not."
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-28-2011, 05:55 PM
stefanj stefanj is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hillsboro, OR
Posts: 2,392
Default

Sent mine yesterday. I modified the suggested letter slightly, mentioning schools and education.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-28-2011, 09:19 PM
BEC's Avatar
BEC BEC is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Auburn, Washington
Posts: 2,036
Default

I just sent mine as well.... also emphasizing the school/youth group/education angle.

The NAR just sent out a mass mailing encouraging us to to this, too.
__________________
Bernard Cawley
NAR 89040 L1
SAM 0061
AMA 42160
KG7AIE
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:04 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ye Olde Rocket Shoppe © 1998-2017