Mike, you don't clone anything of which I am aware...

Why would Estes contact you about your using their logo? Surely not to sell their own product for them.

So nice to have a nanny on this sight to keep us all straight! :rolleyes:

Allen

Thats right I forgot we never cloned any any kits with our inflightrocketry kit line. Never a one.

No Omegas, Goblins, Cherokee Ds or a host of others. We closed up selling those on a whim it had nothing to do with any type of legal threats at all.

Again my apology for disputing your facts in this matter. Perhaps I could interest you in helping reimburse us for half the attorney costs when we had to consult one? Let us know.

And again thank you for all your knowledge and insite on our copyright situation with Hobbico.

:)

Oh, indeed, my apologies, Mike.

I bow before such greatness; you are just a wealth of knowledge yourself, my man! Maybe, if I put together a kit or two and sold them as kits, and typed all my responses in bold, I could know almost as much as you! :)

I was complaining that we can always count on you and one other individual here to stick your nanny, 2-cents in when given an opportunity. You do it publicly, as if to chide and embarrass folks when you just as easily could handle your lesson with a PM.

I wish you and the other nannies out there would get over yourselves.
Now, since I nannied you about nannying me and others, we can get back to the hobby you know so much about!

Allen

Mike,

It's the WAY you do it that annoys me, to be perfectly honest. You do it here and at all the other websites you go to, at least the rocket-related ones. Why do you do that?
It's as if you have designated yourself the rocket cop (to use GH's term) of the web.
When someone has gone to the immense effort to catalog and describe all the K-kits in great detail, all you have to say is something about the Estes Logo and its use.
Compliment the guy, as you should, then PM him about your concerns.
You don't need to remind people periodically how smart you think you are regarding rules and regs regarding shipping motors and copyright law. You are not a lawyer (as not am I).
Besides, no one asked ya!

Allen

Great, Mike. Just know that it is annoying to not just me, but a bunch of us. Your little halo has a cost.
Glad you like it!
Do you always look over other people's shoulders?

Allen

Wow - this has become a truly hostile thread. Pity. The website IS very cool. As a hobbyist who got started "post-K-Kit" (1979), I'd love to see it go further - perhaps include the 1200-series kits. But that's easy to say when I'm not the one doing the legwork!

I haven't been on YORF for long, so I haven't seen Mike's apparently egregious "nannying" attempts in the past. Regardless, reading these posts, I'm left with the impression he had the rather chilling experience of having THE giant of the rocketry industry come at him with lawyers. "Stop making clones of our kits or we'll sue the pants off of you!!" Is that about right, Mike? It's enough to make anybody sensitive to the legal side of the rocketry business.

Estes is definitely sensitized to the law. I talked with those fine folks at the NARAM in Pueblo. I congratulated them on bringing back classic kits, and naturally offered my ideas on which classics should come out next. They then explained they can't reproduce some of their own kits because other manufacturers own the rights. (No dig on Carl here - Semroc often surpasses Estes in quality, so good on yah!). The law is natually a screwy thing - because it's made by lawyers.

Estes also had to drop the SR-71 because Lockheed-Martin demanded royalties on the kit sales. Royalties that actually OUTSTRIPPED kit sales - so the kit was dropped....

The crux of the matter here is this: The "schwag" on the website uses Estes logos. Estes owns the rights to those logos. They don't sell mugs and mousepads, so they aren't going to pursue legal action (right, Sandman?). But they probably COULD, whether we all like it or not. I think Mike pointed this out because it's a hot topic to him - not to nanny or belittle anybody. If you don't like an open discussion of a legal issue, ask yourself this: why does it bother you? It doesn't diminish the fantastic website - it's just a sad reminder of the litigious world in which we all live!

Yep, that's about it.

Since they aren't going to make decal sets available separately and if people want them, what I do actually increases their business with increased engine sales and possibly more kits sales.

As long as I post, "all artwork souly the property...blah, blah, blah...lawyer talk...

As for the old K kit web site it can only increase interest in Estes rockets...so that's a good thing.

And it's a great web site!

Hobbico-Estes is shockingly forgiving on use of their IP in ways they do not compete (upscales, etc.). I happen to believe it increases their mind share and status among end users with no downside, and hope they also believe that.

I have never had contact with E-H legal and hope not to, and hope to never annoy them.

Estes has literally been a force for the good of education, society, and science, in a way far too important to characterize.

Jerry Irvine