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-   -   MRC Engines (http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=18658)

Earl 07-05-2020 02:01 PM

MRC Engines
 
If you are a motor collector, this seller has apparently a pretty good supply of the latter 80s MRC Tracker motors as well as the FX engines (which don't come up often).

Link: https://www.ebay.com/sch/Rocketry/2...&_ssn=miche-gol


Not my listing nor do I know the seller.

Earl

ghrocketman 07-05-2020 02:38 PM

I don't understand the point of them ever making motors.
They were all "me too" offerings already being filled by Estes at a lower price.
Same with Quest BP engines that used to be sold.
If you can't fill a niche that Estes doesn't, why bother ?

Earl 07-05-2020 06:33 PM

What I don’t know is whether MRC actually manufactured their own motors of if they were made overseas. I have a pack of these motors but can’t lay hands on them quickly to check if they are US manufactured or not.

But basically I agree: it doesn’t make a great deal of sense to put in the capital on motor machines (if in in fact they did) to try to compete against Estes, unless you are REALLY trying to work a different angle, or unique product attributes, etc. I don’t think this version of the MRC product line did that. The Concept II stuff (which we discussed here some recently) had some decent products and I have just about all of them. Got one of them in the build que now.

Earl

Royatl 07-05-2020 08:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
I don't understand the point of them ever making motors.
They were all "me too" offerings already being filled by Estes at a lower price.
Same with Quest BP engines that used to be sold.
If you can't fill a niche that Estes doesn't, why bother ?



The problem kit manufacturers have in the retail market is that retailers expect you to have an end-to-end product line. If you have kits, you should have motors for those kits.

You can say "We recommend Estes engines for our XYZ Kits!!" till you're blue in the face, but retailers (and their customers) would still rather buy XYZ Kits with XYZ Engines. Quest did ok when they had similarly labelled motors they could offer for sale, but stagnated when they didn't. In the 80's MRC was able to get into places Estes couldn't because they had a limited selection of their own motors and pre-built rockets. I saw MRC rockets in discount department stores that Estes would have made buy a large display.

In the early days of rockets in retail, in 1970 MPC actually was beating Estes for awhile, partly because Estes wasn't yet geared up fully for retail, but they wouldn't have been able to do that without their own line of engines.

Royatl 07-05-2020 08:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
What I don’t know is whether MRC actually manufactured their own motors of if they were made overseas. I have a pack of these motors but can’t lay hands on them quickly to check if they are US manufactured or not.

But basically I agree: it doesn’t make a great deal of sense to put in the capital on motor machines (if in in fact they did) to try to compete against Estes, unless you are REALLY trying to work a different angle, or unique product attributes, etc. I don’t think this version of the MRC product line did that. The Concept II stuff (which we discussed here some recently) had some decent products and I have just about all of them. Got one of them in the build que now.

Earl


They were made in Germany by Sachen Feurwerks. I don't know who originally had the idea to contract with them, but later when Bill Stine was a consultant for them for the Concept II line, he had them re-label the motors with the Tracker badge. Years later, after Quest's unfortunate accident, Bill went back to Germany (Sachen was then owned by WECO) and ordered motors from them. He had some difficulty buying from them a second time (not financial; they just really didn't think it was worth their time), and after that he ordered from China (apparently he only ordered one shipping containers worth, and that lasted Quest for most of the time until he sold the company to RCS).

Earl 07-05-2020 09:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Royatl
They were made in Germany by Sachen Feurwerks. I don't know who originally had the idea to contract with them, but later when Bill Stine was a consultant for them for the Concept II line, he had them re-label the motors with the Tracker badge. Years later, after Quest's unfortunate accident, Bill went back to Germany (Sachen was then owned by WECO) and ordered motors from them. He had some difficulty buying from them a second time (not financial; they just really didn't think it was worth their time), and after that he ordered from China (apparently he only ordered one shipping containers worth, and that lasted Quest for most of the time until he sold the company to RCS).


Thanks for that Roy. That answers those questions. Yeah, I’d think one shipping container worth of motors would be a goooood handful of motors!

Earl

Initiator001 07-05-2020 11:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
I don't understand the point of them ever making motors.
They were all "me too" offerings already being filled by Estes at a lower price.
Same with Quest BP engines that used to be sold.
If you can't fill a niche that Estes doesn't, why bother ?


The answer is money.

If a company could take 10% of Estes sales that would be at least $1M.

As Roy noted, to play in the big leagues (hobby distributors) you had to have a complete product line.

Back at the 1989 RCHTA SHow (Same one where the MRC Concept II product line debut), AeroTech made it's first presentation of it's products. Rocketry was the 'new' hobby product that year so there were many rocketry companies present and distributors were placing orders.

In those days, hobby distributors were king. You played by their rules or you didn't get any orders. We learned many tough lessons from dealing with hobby distributors. Manufacturers were told what types/quantities of products had to be produced in order to get a sale. For rockets this meant a starter set, a dozen or more motor types (Each motor having a different delay time was fine with them) and at least twelve kits to name a few 'requirements'.

AeroTech didn't have twelve kits. We had two (Initiator and Mustang). We didn't get any orders until we said we working on more kits but they weren't ready to show yet. ;) :rolleyes:

Also needed to have liability insurance. No insurance, no orders. That was a hard and fast requirement. All order were provisional until we provided proof of liability insurance. We did finally get liability insurance. Gary worked on that for weeks. Finally, we got $1M in coverage. The cost was $30K and that was only for one year! :eek:

AeroTech had to immediately raise prices to cover the insurance costs but we had to honor all the earlier orders at the original pricing or the orders would be cancelled.

I think MRC had it a little easier with the Concept II product line. Since MRC was already an established hobby company with in-demand products (R/C cars among other things) it was easy for hobby distributors to order the rocket line as part of an overall order.

Of the 'big four' hobby distributors from thirty years ago, only Horizon Hobby remains. They were so burned first by Barry Tunick then by Great Planes that they would not buy Estes rockets after the company was sold to the Langfords for several years.

Initiator001 07-06-2020 12:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
What I don’t know is whether MRC actually manufactured their own motors of if they were made overseas. I have a pack of these motors but can’t lay hands on them quickly to check if they are US manufactured or not.

But basically I agree: it doesn’t make a great deal of sense to put in the capital on motor machines (if in in fact they did) to try to compete against Estes, unless you are REALLY trying to work a different angle, or unique product attributes, etc. I don’t think this version of the MRC product line did that. The Concept II stuff (which we discussed here some recently) had some decent products and I have just about all of them. Got one of them in the build que now.

Earl


As Roy pointed out the MRC motors were made in (West) Germany.

These were they same motors as the original MRC products, just with a new label wrapped around the motors. I peeled off one of the Tracker labels from a MRC motor and it was exactly the same as the first generation MRC motors.

ghrocketman 07-06-2020 10:01 AM

Exactly why I hate the Hobby Distributor business model.
Adds NO value, Adds only cost to the customer and idiotic requirements onto the producer.

5x7 07-06-2020 07:05 PM

Beware if you get these, according to the mid 90s testing data by NAR, the delays run a full second or more longer than the comparable Estes motor. In addition, the total impulse of the B6 and C6 tested 10% lower than the Estes counterparts. I got some in a closing hobby shop about 10 years ago and I didn’t check the testing data. I flew and zippered a rocket on an MRC C6-5 that flies fine on the Estes C6-5.


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