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FooBag 01-15-2009 01:07 PM

Swivel sizes/ratings
 
What size or lb test swivels are you all using for your LPR rockets? I've decided I'd like to try using some on a few of my rockets, and have no idea what size would be appropriate.

tbzep 01-15-2009 02:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by FooBag
What size or lb test swivels are you all using for your LPR rockets? I've decided I'd like to try using some on a few of my rockets, and have no idea what size would be appropriate.


I usually just buy those multi size wheel packs in the fishing section. I use the smallest for the small rockets and the largest for BT-80 sized rockets, and the others in between. I've had stripped chutes and some broken/burned shock cords the last 30+ years, but I've never had a snap swivel fail. They look puny, so that statistic mildly surprises me. With mid and high power, I've always used quick links, as I just didn't trust any size swivel with heavy and very fast rockets.

Bob Kaplow 01-15-2009 04:20 PM

More important than the size (which I usually go with that looks about right) is the construction. The conventional fishing snap swivels that work like a safety pin will come apart at exactly the wrong time. I gave up on those a LONG time ago.

You want ones that look like this:

Look for the names Coastlock or Sampo

brianc 01-15-2009 06:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Kaplow
You want ones that look like this:




http://www.rocketmaterials.org/data...ivels/index.php

Bob Kaplow 01-15-2009 07:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by brianc


Interesting, this is EXACTLY what I saw on a rocket flown with an I161-10 that ended up being an I161-2. I had used the same large snap swivel as in this example. The snap tightened like a noose onto the quick link, the shock cord zippered the tube, but the snap did NOT let go.

zog139 01-15-2009 11:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Kaplow
More important than the size (which I usually go with that looks about right) is the construction. The conventional fishing snap swivels that work like a safety pin will come apart at exactly the wrong time. I gave up on those a LONG time ago.

You want ones that look like this:

Look for the names Coastlock or Sampo



Hey Bob do you get them local or do you order on-line? I've checked locally and can not find them, I've also looked on-line maybe not in the right places though ? I've never searched by brand name just always looked for cross-lock swivels.

One more thing. Kaplow Klips, do you have a reference to them on-line somewhere? I.E. what gauge brass to use with what motor classes etc.

Jim

Bob Kaplow 01-16-2009 07:31 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zog139
Hey Bob do you get them local or do you order on-line? I've checked locally and can not find them, I've also looked on-line maybe not in the right places though ? I've never searched by brand name just always looked for cross-lock swivels.


Right click and VIEW IMAGE, and you'll see the web site I get them from. It's a kite company, http://www.intothewind.com/shop/Lin...ssories/Swivels will take you right to the page. I've found the small to medium size ones by checking fishing tackle stores, but the larger ones I've only found online.

Again, the key thing to look for is the pigtail at the end of the clip, rather than the straight safety pin style wire. Do **NOT** use any thing that looks like the "safety" swivel on that page. They WILL fail.

Quote:
One more thing. Kaplow Klips, do you have a reference to them on-line somewhere? I.E. what gauge brass to use with what motor classes etc.


http://www.nira-rocketry.org/Document/Phantom4000.pdf includes Kaplow Klip info. Like so many other things, I've used "That Looks About Right" to size them. And you can always use things like fender washers, storm door clips, or other odd hardware store parts if you're not into making your own.

Greg N 01-26-2009 10:21 AM

You can get them in the fishing section as others have said or online.

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/s...tems#itemDetail

Bob Kaplow 01-26-2009 11:09 AM

The key feature is the snap style. I'm not sure the ball bearing really helps that much. The regular coast-lock snap swivels at Into The Wind are much less expensive than this Bass item.

Mark II 01-26-2009 02:47 PM

Both of the items in the two links shown below look like they would be pretty durned strong, judging from the listed test weights. The first kind has sizes that could be used for smaller rockets, and the second for larger model rockets and mid-power rockets.

Link #1

Link #2

I have also bought some of these swivels and also some of these. Both kinds are surprisingly small, considering how strong they are.

Cabela's entire assortment of SPRO swivels, snaps and rings can be browsed from here.

Mark \\.

MKP 01-26-2009 04:42 PM

I'll have to look for those the next time I'm in Lehi. Cabela's is an awesome store anyway.

Doug Sams 01-26-2009 05:58 PM

Most of mine look sorta like this:


They have the locking snap as shown here, but have a simpler swivel section sans the fancy bearings. I don't think these are as good as the ones Bob cited, but their locking mechanism is still better than nothing.

I only use these on birds up to ~E power. After that, I use quick links. At that power level, the added bulk and mass of quick links is no big deal.

Doug

.

Mark II 01-26-2009 08:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Sams
Most of mine look sorta like this:


They have the locking snap as shown here, but have a simpler swivel section sans the fancy bearings. I don't think these are as good as the ones Bob cited, but their locking mechanism is still better than nothing.

These are called duolock-style snaps. The various versions of these at Cabela's website don't seem to have test numbers that are as high as comparable coastlock-style snaps, not even the ones made by SPRO. This style is somewhat easier to find in stores, though. I have gotten most of my rocketry-related terminal tackle in the fishing departments of K-Mart and Walmart. :rolleyes:

Also, a friend of mine once warned me that the two tabs projecting out the side of the duolock-style snap could catch and snag on parts of the recovery system. It sounds plausible, but I have never seen that actually happen.

I have to confess here that most of my snap swivels are of the common brass "safety pin" style. :o I really should replace them all with well-made swivels that have coastlock snaps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Sams
I only use these on birds up to ~E power. After that, I use quick links. At that power level, the added bulk and mass of quick links is no big deal.

Doug

.

I really wish I could find 1/16" or 3/32" quick links. :( They would really fill a niche for me in my MPR builds. But I could probably do just as well (maybe even better) with the larger snap swivels made by SPRO.

Mark \\.

mrhemi1971 02-06-2009 02:13 PM

From my experience, the size of the swivel depended on the size of the chute lines, for the estes chutes with small twine, the little swivels work well, but on my bt-80 upscale fiesta and top-flight chute, I used a very small key ring to secure the chute to the eyelet, and it worked well, but it didn't swivel. Didnt really NEED to swivel, but would have been nicer if equipped with one.

Bob Kaplow 02-06-2009 03:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Sams
Most of mine look sorta like this:


They have the locking snap as shown here, but have a simpler swivel section sans the fancy bearings. I don't think these are as good as the ones Bob cited, but their locking mechanism is still better than nothing.


Yes, I've used ones like this, and they do work OK, at least on smaller models.

Bob Kaplow 02-06-2009 03:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark II
I really wish I could find 1/16" or 3/32" quick links.


Me2

pcotcher 02-23-2009 11:18 AM

Okay - rookie question here - what are "quick links?" I have the better snap swivels for smaller stuff, but I also have some HPR to build, and want to make sure that I'm using stuff that's up to the challenge.

And while we're at it - where are some good places to get this stuff, even the larger snap swivels. The local Walmarts only have the itty bitty stuff that barely passes for the Estes style chutes.

Thanks,

Paul

Bob Kaplow 02-23-2009 11:59 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcotcher
Okay - rookie question here - what are "quick links?"


Here's the thousand word answer:

pcotcher 02-23-2009 12:19 PM

Perfect Answer!

ghrocketman 02-23-2009 01:30 PM

Paul,
One of the best places to find "quick links" is at your local Home Depot or Lowe's store.
Be aware though that some stores I have been in did not have them, but most do.
Any "olde tyme" style independent hardware store would have them if they are worth a hoot.

Bob Kaplow 02-23-2009 02:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
Paul,
One of the best places to find "quick links" is at your local Home Depot or Lowe's store.
Be aware though that some stores I have been in did not have them, but most do.
Any "olde tyme" style independent hardware store would have them if they are worth a hoot.


We were just discussing Farm & Fleet a few days back. That's where I get my quick links for a fraction of what the big box chains charge. Of course they used to be even cheaper when they were in the loose hardware pegs, instead of blister packed, shrink wrapped, and carded. IIRC the packaging doubled their price. At least they still sell the bulk hardware by the pound. I need some more of the 7/8" hex nuts but they don't carry them that large any more :(

barone 02-23-2009 03:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark II
......Also, a friend of mine once warned me that the two tabs projecting out the side of the duolock-style snap could catch and snag on parts of the recovery system. It sounds plausible, but I have never seen that actually happen.
I've had a shroud line hang but it really didn't affect the recovery any....just wasn't as pretty as it could have been......lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkII
I have to confess here that most of my snap swivels are of the common brass "safety pin" style. :o I really should replace them all with well-made swivels that have coastlock snaps.
Actually, I've never had any problem with the "safety pin" style.....but I usually use them on my smaller rockets that really don't experience much of a deployment velocity.......or they use streamers...... :D

Mark II 02-24-2009 03:24 AM

You can also find "quick links" at the top of every page in YORF, right under your login...:chuckle:

OK, bad joke. :rolleyes:

There is a well-stocked Ace Hardware in my area, which is where I find all manner of things like quick links (the real kind). Oddly enough, though, my most recent purchase of them was at Walmart. (One of the few useful items of general hardware that they stock. Sold in pairs, blister- or vac-packed onto a card.)

My local True Value and Aubuchon (a local chain) hardware stores also stock them. They are usually hanging on pegs next to the eye bolts, eye lag screws (screw eyes) and U-bolts.

MarkII

Bob Kaplow 02-24-2009 06:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by barone
Actually, I've never had any problem with the "safety pin" style.....but I usually use them on my smaller rockets that really don't experience much of a deployment velocity.......or they use streamers...... :D


You Will :mad:

They'll work fine for the Astron Alpha class kits. I used them for my first decade in the hobby. Then I got to NARAM-18, and had my chute leave the party on what would have been a 2nd place D ELA flight. The model pranged, the egg smashed to bits, and the chute drifted off. I did find it, and the snap was ripped open.

That was the last time I used one of those.

luke strawwalker 02-24-2009 10:52 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
Paul,
One of the best places to find "quick links" is at your local Home Depot or Lowe's store.
Be aware though that some stores I have been in did not have them, but most do.
Any "olde tyme" style independent hardware store would have them if they are worth a hoot.


Be aware, after just shopping for this type of hardware to install a porch swing, that if you have a TSC, Rural King, or Big R (or other 'farm supply' type store) that they will be significantly cheaper on these quick links and related hardware than Lowe's or Home Depot. As far as local hardware stores, YMMV... :) OL JR :)

luke strawwalker 02-24-2009 10:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by barone
I've had a shroud line hang but it really didn't affect the recovery any....just wasn't as pretty as it could have been......lol

Actually, I've never had any problem with the "safety pin" style.....but I usually use them on my smaller rockets that really don't experience much of a deployment velocity.......or they use streamers...... :D



You've had some luck then... ever get a bonus delay though with plain 'brass barrel' swivels without the locks and you're probably screwed... at least I was...

I used the old 'no-lock style snap swivels years ago a had a couple fail... they only have to 'stretch' a fraction of an inch for the end to pop out of the 'safety pin' clip, and when the end springs open, usually there's stilll enough deployment force to spring it open the rest of the way and turn the shock cord or nosecone loose, and BOOM instant seperation...

The lock type swivels can absorb that fraction of an inch of 'springing' and the lock merely slides up the wire a bit and usually springs back. I've NEVER had one of the locking type fail. Our local W/M has about 50/50 locking/nonlocking types... OL JR :)

Mark II 02-24-2009 11:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Kaplow
You Will :mad:

They'll work fine for the Astron Alpha class kits. I used them for my first decade in the hobby. Then I got to NARAM-18, and had my chute leave the party on what would have been a 2nd place D ELA flight. The model pranged, the egg smashed to bits, and the chute drifted off. I did find it, and the snap was ripped open.

That was the last time I used one of those.

So then the yolk was on you... ;)

No, I haven't had one fail yet either, no doubt due in part to the fact that I haven't been launching much lately. (They can't fail if they never get used...) But what I have read here and previously has concerned me enough that I will be replacing most of mine. When you can find the coastlock swivels, they usually have the same price as the "safety pin clasp" style. They are a little bit harder to find in the stores, but you can also get them online (links posted earlier).

MarkII

o1d_dude 03-01-2009 10:39 PM

What's up with Wal*Mart and swivels?

Both Wally Worlds where I shop are totally out of anything resembling a swivel. Today, after I pinned down one of the staff, I was told the shipment of new swivels would arrive tomorrow. Apparently, all the existing stock was clearanced out and a new supplier will be providing stock in the future.

I checked the clearance aisles, found some fishing gear, but no swivels.

While I was there, I picked up some two-packs of Duro super glue gel in the 3g size for a buck...and more motors. :D

BEC 03-02-2009 01:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by o1d_dude
What's up with Wal*Mart and swivels?

Both Wally Worlds where I shop are totally out of anything resembling a swivel. Today, after I pinned down one of the staff, I was told the shipment of new swivels would arrive tomorrow. Apparently, all the existing stock was clearanced out and a new supplier will be providing stock in the future.

I checked the clearance aisles, found some fishing gear, but no swivels.


Yeah, I ran into the same thing. Fortunately I managed to score one pack of swivels at one W*M - the only ones that were reasonably sized that were being clearanced out. Looks to me like perhaps they're changing vendors.......

Bob Kaplow 03-02-2009 03:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BEC
Yeah, I ran into the same thing. Fortunately I managed to score one pack of swivels at one W*M - the only ones that were reasonably sized that were being clearanced out. Looks to me like perhaps they're changing vendors.......


Wal-Mart sucks!

Rocket Doctor 03-02-2009 04:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by o1d_dude
What's up with Wal*Mart and swivels?

Both Wally Worlds where I shop are totally out of anything resembling a swivel. Today, after I pinned down one of the staff, I was told the shipment of new swivels would arrive tomorrow. Apparently, all the existing stock was clearanced out and a new supplier will be providing stock in the future.

I checked the clearance aisles, found some fishing gear, but no swivels.

While I was there, I picked up some two-packs of Duro super glue gel in the 3g size for a buck...and more motors. :D


Go to a REAL sporting goods store or better yet, look them up on the web.

Edit
http://www.cabelas.com/ssubcat-1/cat20293.shtml

o1d_dude 03-02-2009 07:09 PM

Yeah, I keep a copy of the Cabela's catalog by the bedside for evening reading and my son's FIL works at the Bass Pro Shop. I'm afraid that if I actually went in there I'd instantly have yet another retirement hobby. :D

When Wally World gets their swivel situation in order, I will simply visit the fishing gear aisle in the course of my normal trips for groceries, rocket motors, and such.

OneSickPuppy 09-12-2009 11:20 PM

If you want a great selection of them go to Academy or Bass Pro. I would have to say there are in the range of 200 different packages of them for freshwater to saltwater. Walmarts selection of anything type of item generally sucks. If you dont have either of those stores near you, just hit any store that deals in outdoor/fishing gear.

Mark II 06-06-2010 04:24 PM

All About Swivels
 
Moderators: please make this thread sticky. The information that it contains is priceless!

MK

Ltvscout 06-06-2010 05:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark II
Moderators: please make this thread sticky. The information that it contains is priceless!

It would appear Buzz got it handled.

jamjammer53150 06-07-2010 10:27 AM

swivels
 
I found some really cool Black chromed ball bearing swivels 80lb test at Gander mountian , they cost maybe 50 cents each . they also have some mini key ring type things that are good for the shroud lines , good luck opening them .

On a related note , I had a saftey pin type swivel fail , the rocket came down in a tree with a tangled chute . My payload bay was attached with a saftey pin swivel which failed . Lucky for me it dropped my camera to the ground . also with enough tree wiggling the rocket dropped due to another saftey pin failure The dam chute is still in the tree. I immedatly scrapped all my saftey pin swivles except in the cases of stock platic parachutes

Aeronerd 07-15-2020 10:36 AM

Good info. I've snagged my chutes and even streamers on the swivels where the lock wire sticks out Good to get recommendations on better brands.

Old Salt 03-08-2021 01:12 PM

As a veteran saltwater fisherman, I've switched over from snap swivels to Tactical Angler Clips which are more compact and stronger. You could add a barrel swivel if desired. They easily handle large fish (striped bass) in the surf and could easily handle rocket stress. Just wondering if Angler Clips would be suitable for rockets?

electromag.11 04-11-2022 08:43 PM

#3 Snap Swivels work on Estes Omloid nose cone
 
I just bought some snap swivels (safety pin style) today in the fishing section at Walmart. The Estes Omloid nose cone is large, and probably as heavy as any nose cone, since it contains an egg.

A "3 snap swivel is big enough to attach the Estes Omloid nose cone.


Here's a link to the snap swivel from the kite store:
https://intothewind.com/50-lb-safety-swivel-4030.html
(looks identical to fishing tackle snap swivels)

If anyone has information on better quality, more reliable snap swivels please reply!

jetlag 04-12-2022 12:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by electromag.11
I just bought some snap swivels (safety pin style) today in the fishing section at Walmart. The Estes Omloid nose cone is large, and probably as heavy as any nose cone, since it contains an egg.

A "3 snap swivel is big enough to attach the Estes Omloid nose cone.


Here's a link to the snap swivel from the kite store:
https://intothewind.com/50-lb-safety-swivel-4030.html
(looks identical to fishing tackle snap swivels)

If anyone has information on better quality, more reliable snap swivels please reply!


The type you show I'm not crazy about. They can 'strip out.' Ask me how I know!
I prefer the ones that are heavier duty with a little hook on the end of the wire. This usually will keep it from stripping out under load.

Allen


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