The Return of SEMROC
 

This will be an unofficial poll of sorts, as to what people may be looking for as SEMROC prepares to ramp up. I'm not saying operations will start today, tomorrow, or next week, but Randy did ask if I was seeing any trends in the forums. I kinda looked around and not being very good at this, decided I would just pose the question. Keeping in mind he would probably start with some of the simpler kits to get a feel for how this works, what kits are you looking for in the near and intermediate future from SEMROC? List as many as you want, just looking for a couple of trends to kick things off.

Thanks

Mike

The kits that aren't easily cloned. I can scratchbuild about 98% of the kits ever released from most of the manufactureres. It's the ones with special parts that are troublesome.

Kits with embossed wraps like the Saturn 1B and Mars Lander would be at the top of my list. After that, kits with lots of little intricate parts like the USS America and SST Shuttle. I already have these kits, but I do not have replacements. I am very reluctant to launch any of them knowing a flight failure would mean a very labor intensive repair or scratch built replacement. I know this type of rocket is at the opposite end of the spectrum from what SEMROC plans to release first, but I can clone a 3FN or 4FN rocket, including turning the nose cone and making decals, in my sleep.

For me the big deal is not kits but parts. I went on several binges buying kits when Sheryl announced she and Bruce were going to shut down and have more than I'll be able to build in my lifetime. I did miss a couple that I wanted to get (mainly from the SLS line) but otherwise I'm not really looking for more kits any time soon.

But that doesn't stop me from scratch building my own designs for both sport and competition and Semroc has been my dream parts supplier over the past five plus years. They have been my go-to place for tubes of both Estes and Centuri sizes (and including clear tubing for payload sections in more-than-4-inch lengths), stage couplers, ply disks to fit them so they can be made into payload bulkheads, engine hooks, and more. Some of that stuff is available from other suppliers but what Semroc carried all in one place was unmatched. I would love to be able to rely in that resource again.

I don't have the space or tools to make my own as tbzep does.

I agree with him on which kits would be priority, though - the ones that are hard to clone on one's own.

I wholeheartedly second what tbzep just said.
Saturn 1B, Mars Lander, Orion (not Baby), SST Shuttle, and Astron Shrike.
I would also throw in the following kits: SLS Hustler, SLS Lil Hustler, SLS Aero Dart, and the Orbital Transport.

I bought a V-2 (K-22 clone) kit back in 2013, but never completed building it because I was frankly doing a crap job of it. I've considered trying again with an ASP V-2 kit but if the Semroc kit came back I'd likely buy that.

And I'd probably buy a Saturn 1B if I could.

The Enerjet kits come to mind, as does the Centuri ESS Raven, but it's the parts that have made up the bulk of my orders. I just throw the kits in because I can. I'm only now starting to get to some of the stuff I ordered back in the beginning.

I agree with what has been said above. Semroc IMHO brought three things to the table:

A broad product line, including, and most importantly, PARTS.

Very fair pricing. Carl and company were never in it to make a boatload of money overnight.

Unbeatable and personalized service.

If the new owners follows in their footsteps, they can't go wrong.


Joe

I am going to be radical and agree with GH, and add the Athena. Even if you have to raise parts prices 10-15% to offset the obvious groove Carl was in, that would still be quite fair.

I would suggest a barbell approach. Focus on parts and the larger more complicated kits (Saturn 1B), and as you go along populate the simple kits. That's what I do and it works. I have been making kits about as long as Semroc, hiatus subtracted.

Make clear on the website what is in stock and what is not. Have a link for reservations. Solved.

Business Mangler Jerry

I agree. For me Semroc was all about the parts. I also binge bought parts that I could only get from Semroc when they were closing. When I heard Randy bought it, I was hoping that Carl's 1/10th scale line might expand. He had a number of 1/10th scale parts listed and I got as many of those as were left. He had parts for the WAC Corporal and ALL of the Nike- sounding rockets as well as Aerobee and Astrobee in 1/10 scale.

Bottom line: reconstitute the parts and tube inventory. All the little three- and four fins and a nose cone could probably wait.


P.S. look at the kits Carl was working on, like the Saturn V or the V-2 as a tribute.

:D I disagree, everyone should buy the awesome USR V-2 2.25". :D From Apogee.

Re-ramping up an operation like the one SEMROC had going is certainly not a simple undertaking, and I'm sure everyone here is wishing the new SEMROC personnel the very best of luck in getting things going again.

That said, yes, parts, parts, parts is what I'd be looking for primarily, but there are (were) SEMROC kits that I really wanted to have and those were the Centuri MiniMax (SLS) kits that I had bought over the years (oddly enough rounded out the last of the SLS purchases about a week before SEMROC announced their closing last year).

But as far as a 'grand' re-rollout of SEMROC, it might be a good 'hook' to be able to announce the return (early on) of at least one of their more flagship kits, like the Saturn 1b, Mars Lander, etc., to get people to see from the get-go that "Hey, the new SEMROC guys mean business!".


Earl

Patience, patience, patience
 

Patience is the word here. The new owner will need the time to learn the equipment, integrate it into his own operation, and build up an inventory. I wouldn't mind seeing the re-launch offer a smaller selection of kits and a limited range of parts. Then, as we flood the new owner with orders, hopefully more kits and more parts will appear. Semroc had an enormous inventory of kits and an unheard of inventory of parts. It will be difficult to match that right away.
I wouldn't expect an operation identical to Semroc. The new owner will put his own stamp on the company and it may be even better! Patience, patience ...
timmwood

The Return of SEMROC
 

Tim is correct. Randy will have to learn how to use the various equipment, thus starting out with simpler kits (that's how we started). Carl and Bruce went to their first NARAM with 5 kits. Our inventory grew only because Carl listened to what people wanted for kits and needed for parts. We just kept adding to the inventory.

Look at the sales data for the last year of operation and introduce those items with the greatest sales. As far as personal preference is concerned, bring back the parts!

Another trick is to start with kits with a high degree of nose cone commonality. Last year we did production runs of more of our 330 kits in one year than ever. We typically suffer from adequate nose cones for some kits from vendors that died or went to sleep. Always open to hear from mass nose cone vendors, particularly for plastic, fiberglass and large wood. For example the new Estes 4" nose cone seems like a good substitute for the Ace PNC-39, but they don't seem to offer it in bulk as a separate part.

Another example is that German company was buying pads and controllers from Quest but can no longer get them since the Aerotech purchase, so had to mold their own. Also Quest had a nice BT-11 cone (30mm) which no longer is offered since the AT/Quest merger. I liked those.

The days of kit manufacturers cooperating with each other on parts seems to be diminishing with increasingly proprietary closed systems at Estes and Aerotech, even though third party kits sell almost entirely their motors. Silly.

Has anyone ordered parts from Semroc in the last few weeks? How is delivery speed?

Agreed. Parts, parts, parts!

Also, don't be a stranger to the forums! Stay in touch with the community directly, and chime in often. This is where you find out what we want, by talking to us here. Instant information (virtually).

From the new Semroc owner...
 

Thanks Mike for starting this conversation, I appreciate it.

Thanks everyone for all of the thoughts. I believe I am think much the way you are.

Parts are the current priority. We are going to sell all of the parts of the old Semroc. We are just weeks away from having almost everything available.

All parts will be sold off of the eRockets.biz web site. Most of the parts are set up and are waiting for us to update the quantities to start sales.

We are breaking Kit production into 3 phases. Phase 1 will be simple kits where we have plenty of parts available. Phase 2 will be kits where we had to acquire parts to build. Our largest issue is balsa, we do not have a large supply in stock and need to start a flow from scratch. Phase 3 will be kits that have a large degree of difficulty to kit. Unfortunately, the Saturn 1B and Mars Lander are in this group. We hope to be in phase 3 by Christmas.

It is possible that some of the 3 fins and nose cone kits may not be immediately released. Or they could be rotated in and out. There are just too many choices in the line.

The Semroc web page has been a major issue for us. I think we have been down more that we have been up. Our intent is to sell the kits as much as possible through our retailers rather than through the Semroc page. eRockets.biz will have the parts so we will not be selling them on the Semroc page. The page is there because there is a lot of reference material that we all use. When time permits we will migrate all of the information onto a new platform that will be more stable and easier to update.

Thank you everyone for your support! We will not fail you...

Randy Boadway
Semroc

Thanks for the update, Randy! I look forward to the parts becoming available again.

I imagine a lot of folks are already imagining new projects and making up lists . . .

You probably saw the suggestion up-thread, but I'll repeat it:

I think people would be willing to fund the re-release of complex big kits (Saturn 1b, Mars Lander) and brand new kits (Little Joe II) using Kickstarter.

Yes, Randy, thanks much for this update. Good information to hear! You no doubt have a big chore in front of you and we are all certainly pulling for you and your 'team' as you get the SEMROC 'engine' cranked up again.

As time permits, keep in touch with us here to let us know how things are going and what we can do to help.

Earl

Semroc preferences
 

For kits, I'd like to see the SLS Aero Dart, Centuron, and Centurion F.
For parts, naturally I'd love to see all of the old Semroc parts offered. I'd also like to see parts to scratch-build rockets that use the new Estes F motors. Cloning parts are welcome as well; I once bought some fins that allowed me to clone the Flight Systems Inc. Competitor rocket.
Best wishes to erockets. I hope that Semroc is rewarding and profitable. Kudos to Sheryl for finding an outstanding company to buy Semroc.
timmwood

Kickstarter
 

We do not plan on using kickstarter to help finance kits. Capital is not an issue with eRockets and Semroc. Time and talent is the issue at this point.

respectfully,

Randy Boadway
Semroc

Great updates, Randy!

I wish you every success in your venture. Once your parts operation is up and running and selling, I've already got some projects I'll need your fiddly bits for!

That's a good position to be in!

I'm already thinking of projects to indulge in, once the parts larder is restocked.

I'll go with everybody else here - parts!

With parts and kit instructions to download, we can make our own kits until you get fully up to speed.

Do not feel the need to meet the McLawhorn standard of shipping before the order is placed. We do not need you burning out.

Long term, I would like to see you complete a couple of Carl's visions: a fully operational nose cone designer and Semroc motors.


Bill

Best wishes to you, Randy.

If you're the sentimental type, you might consider your first release/s to be whatever Semroc released first. A homage to the heritage of a company based on homage and heritage, if you will.

Anyway, personally, I'd love to have a LJII, a Mars Lander, and a S1B to build (my "Carl" S1B will forever stay in the box).

A return of all of the parts including fins and decals. The SLS kits were great too.

Rocketron

I know some of the first kits they produced were the SLS Jaguar and SLS Scorpion based on the old Centuri Mini-Max kits.
Not sure why those were chosen by Semroc in the beginning, but they sure hooked me.

My SLS Scorpion drifted away last summer, after a marvelous flight on a F10. I'll need to replace it!

I have parts and decals for at least two Jaguars, for a total of four! I might devote one to use with a F15-8.

WOW ! An F10 in a Scorpion !
The bravest I have been is an E9 with the huge 500 acre field I used to have in my back yard.

I was offered the motor free by a vendor! It seemed ungreatful not to use it.

It was really a beautiful flight, and I could see the model the whole time.

If I had used a big honking streamer, or severely reefed the parachute, I might have gotten the Scorpion back. As it happens I could see the lovely florescent green parachute as it shrunk into a speck over the distant hills.

As others have said, I would be most interested in parts. Especially the parts needed to make a Centuri Black Widow. It was my Dads favorite kit that he made when we both started in the hobby and it lasted all of one flight. Perfect flight but hit the one cloud that looked like it was higher than it really was and was never seen again.

The first set of Black Widow laser cut fins I bought from Semroc came 1/16" thick - my research indicated 3/32 (which I later confirmed with an original kit), so Carl sent me a 2nd corrected set, though IIRC, their website still showed 1/16". I built a clone with the 3/32" fins, and it flies great. I'd like to see parts for this also, mine is getting pretty beat up, the coupler gets toasted more each flight.

The 'passport' staging method of most Centuri multi-stagers works great, but stage coupler 'toasting' will always be an issue with that method.
Similar to the 'gas cutting' of flash suppressors on firearms thus equipped after thousands of rounds.

Sure wish the "new" Semroc would bring back all the kits and parts Carl offered instead of what seems to be the opposite.
I know it's a pipe dream, but one can hope.
I know there is NO HOPE for getting engine manufacturing of "niche" BP SU motors that Carl planned.

Personally, I'm frustrated by the SEMROC line (let alone the redesigned website). Since the beginning of the year at least half the kit line is out of stock. Covid or not, you would have thought SOMETHING would have given just a little bit. But no, rather we get an upscale Cherokee, granted, still cool. but of course, "Sorry, out of stock".

Was the motor machine included in the sale of assets? IIRC, it was not.

Maybe Bruce wakes up someday with an urge to get into the motor business...


Bill

Semroc Update
 

Hi Folks,
I wanted to set the record straight on some of the comments here. When eRockets took over Semroc quite a few years ago we spent the first year bring back all the Semroc kits except the X kits. We had over 130 kits available to the public. We went 2 years without discontinuing any kits. In our 3rd year we could no longer stand to have kits that were not moving so we discontinued about 20 of the slowest moving kits, I am talking kits that move less than 10 a year. Of course, as soon as we announced the kits were discontinued and marked them down, they sold out quickly. The years following, we had to continue the process but discontinuing kits that sold 20 or less a year. Selling that small of a number did not make it viable to sell those kits. We were also experiencing a lot of canalization due to having way too many 3 fin and a nose cone or 4 fin and a nose cone. Almost all the parts we continue to have available even to this day. Today we produce about 60 kits of all kinds of styles and sizes. I do not see that changing in the future because the volume and margins are not there to support it. The extra space generated by the discontinued product allowed us to hold more of our better moving products supporting a decent sales growth. So much that we had to move into a larger building.

When Semroc was acquired, we purchased all of the Kit business. nothing motor related was offered to us.

We are experiencing a major problem in our manufacturing area. We cannot keep up with the current demand. Sourcing materials has become very tough, we cannot get tubes in a reasonable time frame, balsa planks to make nose cones are hard to find at the right density and if for some reason I did find a large quantity we do not have the skilled labor to make them. Even flat stock was unavailable for a while. For the Pro Cherokee that we just released we are at the mercy of Aerotech to ship us tubes and nose cones. They are out 6 to 8 weeks currently. We are watching our stock outs like a hawk. Two weeks ago we were at 500 outs, with 4600 SKU's, today we are at 422 outs. Pre-pandemic we were always under 100. Manufacturable items we are low on 158 items we were over 300 a month ago. Pre pandemic 20 was our norm. And despite the improvement our main production guy has been out sick all week, in the covid world we have to expect this.

During the pandemic we have been able to determine our way foreword relating to the Balsa Shortage. With sheet goods we can buy different species and turn the laser up to cut them, most will weigh more than the balsa of the past. 3D printing is finally coming of age. We have invested in 2 Prusa printers, I am trying to operate them 24 hours a day. We have 625 parts that we intend to transition to 3D that are currently made of balsa. We will continue to make balsa nose cones if the market can bare the prices. Additional options will be available in 3D printed parts of the same shape and size. I have decided that the toughest balsa parts to make (Tail Cones and Transitions) will be discontinued in balsa and replaced by 3D printed parts. We will be printing Nose Cones between 4.5" and 10" on our printer that prints with PETG filament. We started doing this a few years ago and have found good design technique and optimal printer settings to make the parts very well. Our current drawback is we only have 1 printer, so we must prioritize what we are making. Our new SLA printer prints with a liquid tough resin. Last year we farmed out the Micro Mars Lander nose cone to print in SLA. The quality is exceptional, and I feel our customers will be very happy with the cones we print. Almost all the parts are being printed now for our future release of new Pro Series kits. Unlike the Pro Cherokee we will make all parts here, so we have control of the timing and production of the kits.

Thank you for the excellent update!

I really appreciate the detail and transparency.

It is sad to see some of the "SLS" models gone, but I already had most of them, and a huge to-build backlog.

The supply chain difficulties and shortages are sobering. I certainly understand the need and logic behind the substitutions.

Stefan

The update is appreciated. Thank you.