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-   -   Bring back the Estes Gemini-Titan, Saturn 1B & Mercury Atlas (http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=17997)

Ltvscout 07-17-2019 11:38 PM

Bring back the Estes Gemini-Titan, Saturn 1B & Mercury Atlas
 
Estes is looking for your vote to bring back the G-T!

https://estesrockets.com/apollo-gemini/

P.S. - As noted by Earl below you can also vote to bring back the Saturn 1B and the Mercury Atlas by scrolling down the page and clicking on the icons for them.

Earl 07-17-2019 11:46 PM

Looks like they are taking similar votes on the Saturn 1b and the Mercury Atlas as well. At the bottom of the page there is a row of rocket vehicle icons. Click on either the 1b or the MA and you can vote for those, too.


Earl

hcmbanjo 07-18-2019 08:58 AM

At the last NARAM on the Estes tour -
They had a 1/100 scale Saturn 1B on display.
I asked John Boren about it - He said he did all the kit prep work last year.
A also asked Ellis Langford about the 1B. He smiled and said a kit could
be produced.

Estes could use the new blow molded LEM adapter from the #1969 Saturn V kit.

LeeR 07-18-2019 01:10 PM

I voted for all. I never had a Gemini-Titan, so that is of most interest to me. I do have a Mercury-Atlas in the box. Crap, I have a LOT of great kits in the box. :rolleyes:

The Saturn 1B release will need to change a bit. I bought several of the LEM adapters for older #2157 Saturn V kits. I tried the adapter in my Saturn 1B kits, it’s too loose.

jetlag 07-18-2019 04:08 PM

I just hope that if they release a 'new' Gemini Titan, it's not like the rerelease last time. Release the original with two engines, not a single. That last one kinda sucked. Cheapy with that removable plastic engine nozzle set.
Amazes me what people have been paying for that last release on eBay.
Silly $$$.

Allen

ghrocketman 07-18-2019 04:17 PM

ONLY interested in the Gemini Titan if it is the original K-21 BT-80 based "craftsman" 2 engine cluster version.
The plastic capsule BT-60 based one they offered in 1988 was a total pile of junk.

Flash 07-18-2019 09:09 PM

1/45 Saturn 1B do it, do it right:)
 
1 Attachment(s)
This is the one I want:)

Chas Russell 07-18-2019 10:04 PM

Mary Roberts? She is taken...

Oh, you mean the 1B.

Chas

Rocketcrab 07-19-2019 11:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetlag
I just hope that if they release a 'new' Gemini Titan, it's not like the rerelease last time. Release the original with two engines, not a single. That last one kinda sucked. Cheapy with that removable plastic engine nozzle set.
Amazes me what people have been paying for that last release on eBay.
Silly $$$.

Allen


I agree 100%.

Rocketcrab 07-19-2019 11:24 AM

I would also add this - I have built a clone of the original Estes version, as well as one from a defunct outfit called PDR Rocketry. I could never find a good adhesive for the clear fin can and fins. If Estes does re-released the Gemini-Titan, I hope they can come up with a better clear fin material. Or, can anyone suggest a good adhesive?

astronwolf 07-19-2019 01:26 PM

They'll probably have a molded clear fin can like the RTF Saturn V kit.

Shreadvector 07-19-2019 02:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
ONLY interested in the Gemini Titan if it is the original K-21 BT-80 based "craftsman" 2 engine cluster version.
The plastic capsule BT-60 based one they offered in 1988 was a total pile of junk.



BT-70, not BT-80.


With BT-60 internal for the nose cone/capsule.


I cloned a few dozen of these in the 1980s for our NAR Section's building classes. Used Lexan for the fins and fin collar and had to get a specialty liquid adhesive.


I used the last remaining cloned model during my 16-Jul-2019 display here at the home of the S-II second stage. Office buildings still here and refurbished. One assembly building was demolished a few years ago, but the other is still standing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-II

Flash 07-19-2019 02:17 PM

Actually I would like to see Estes upscale the old K21 twin engine Gemini Titan to BT80 1/45 Scale size or close to it anyway, sure would look great beside the 1/45 Little Joe II.

The 18mm engine tubes would be closer to scale to.

Of coarse if Estes just did a remake or update of the BT70 size Gemini Titan that would be fine to.

Either way, a upgraded plastic shroud that goes between the main body tube and nose cone would be a nice touch and also do a plastic high detail nose cone to boot:)

But in the end, I would still be happy with just a K21 remake.

How about adding in a Titan II ICBM nose cone option to.

tbzep 07-19-2019 03:29 PM

Did y'all notice that Estes says the 1/70 Saturn 1B kit was produced through 1980? It's last catalog appearance was 1977.

ghrocketman 07-19-2019 04:42 PM

Yeah...not right.
I got into rocketry in 1977.
My father tried ordering one in 1977 and was told they were all gone.
Some may have existed in hobby shops until 1980, but you definitely could not get one from Estes.

My mistake about saying BT-80; I knew it was BT-70... fat-fingered an 8 instead of a 7 in my post.
I don't think the BT80 even existed back when the K21 was produced.

5x7 07-19-2019 04:54 PM

I think they also missed a Sat V release but who’s counting

tbzep 07-19-2019 05:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
I don't think the BT80 even existed back when the K21 was produced.

It first showed up as a stand alone tube BT-80KD in 1984. To the best of my recollection, it first appeared in a kit with the Maxi Honest John 1975. The 2nd kit was the Maxi Alpha two or three years later.

Earl 07-19-2019 07:51 PM

I think, or always thought, the BT-80 tube was the S-IVB tube for the Saturn V. Yes, no?

Earl

mwtoelle 07-19-2019 09:11 PM

The first appearance of BT-80 in an Estes kit was in the K-36 Saturn V in 1969. It was used for the body tube of the S-IVB third stage. Its next appearance was in the 1269 Maxi Honest John.

Earl 07-20-2019 05:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetlag
I just hope that if they release a 'new' Gemini Titan, it's not like the rerelease last time. Release the original with two engines, not a single. That last one kinda sucked. Cheapy with that removable plastic engine nozzle set.
Amazes me what people have been paying for that last release on eBay.
Silly $$$.

Allen


...and here ya go: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Estes-Vint...AAOSwfERdMp0 b


This one has been a head scratcher over the years for me also on eBay. Well over a couple hundred dollars for this kit sometimes. It's not a bad little kit as these things go (I got one as freebie in an Estes mail order back around the mid to latter 80s, but never built it), but I just never have understood the high-priced demand for it at auction.

Earl

tbzep 07-20-2019 10:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
I think, or always thought, the BT-80 tube was the S-IVB tube for the Saturn V. Yes, no?

Earl

For some reason I was thinking that the S-IVB was an odd size tube. I guess the Service Module tube BT-58 had me thinking that way.

Earl 07-25-2019 04:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
...and here ya go: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Estes-Vint...AAOSwfERdMp0 b


This one has been a head scratcher over the years for me also on eBay. Well over a couple hundred dollars for this kit sometimes. It's not a bad little kit as these things go (I got one as freebie in an Estes mail order back around the mid to latter 80s, but never built it), but I just never have understood the high-priced demand for it at auction.

Earl


Ok, like, wow. This thing went for $335 when the auction closed, I think yesterday.

I don't think the original BT-70 version goes for quite that amount on the somewhat rare event one does show up on ebay. Go figure, but I just don't see the value, myself, in this particular version. But, to each his own.


Earl

LeeR 07-25-2019 10:08 PM

I noticed a #2048 Estes 1:100 Saturn 1B went for $355 last night (plus $12.95 shipping ...)

I built one of mine, still need to paint. I have 2 more. It’s tempting to sell at least one. But I always ask myself — what would I use the money for?

Well, maybe a Gemini-Titan ... :rolleyes:

ghrocketman 07-26-2019 09:55 AM

A 1/70 K-29 Saturn 1B is not worth $355, let alone that little 2048 1/100 Centuri Clone.
Original Centuri Saturn 1B's don't go for that.
Ridiculous Nonsense.

LeeR 07-26-2019 12:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
A 1/70 K-29 Saturn 1B is not worth $355, let alone that little 2048 1/100 Centuri Clone.
Original Centuri Saturn 1B's don't go for that.
Ridiculous Nonsense.


Worth is in the eye of the beholder (or bidder). Nobody is holding a gun to someone’s head to make them buy it. Who is to say what something is worth? When supply is low and demand is high, “worth” is a meaningless term, except to the one who paid to own a desirable (to them) product.

ghrocketman 07-26-2019 06:16 PM

It is ONLY worth that to a FOOL with more $$ than BRAINS.

Flash 07-26-2019 08:02 PM

Actually, I would rather build one from scratch with a 3d printed fin can and apogee nose cone set using the tubes from e-rockets. I wouldn't put all the internal plumbing inside it like the old Estes K-29 kit had. Would have it more on the line of Kosrox and Apogee 1/70th Saturns. I would get some vacuum molded wraps that are still around along with the Moles stick on printed Wraps:)

By the way, I use a BT60 Core tube with one extra layer of a split BT60 around the core about a couple of inches wide underneath the top and bottom of the 8 fuel tanks to get the right diameter, and then put a 24mm mount inside it for D-E power or you could use a three 18mm cluster.

I could build three, maybe even 4 of these at the price of $355.00 most likely. 3 for sure!

Earl 08-01-2019 02:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
It is ONLY worth that to a FOOL with more $$ than BRAINS.



...and here's another example. Estes BT-70 Gemini-Titan. Not my listing....


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Estes-K-21...8.c100290.m3507


Earl

Flash 08-01-2019 03:31 PM

Wow! I would be totally shocked if someone bites on that!

ghrocketman 08-01-2019 08:27 PM

One of few kits actually worth $350.
The green header skill level packaged K-21 Gemini Titan was only produced in 1973.

Earl 08-18-2019 05:52 PM

Well, here's a 'vote', in a way, to bring back the GT.

This auction closed earlier today for an early Estes Gemin-Titan kit for $405. Auction listing I'm pretty sure by Matt Steele.

Here's a link to the ebay listing:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Estes-K-21...353.m1438.l2649

About a year or so ago I got really lucky and came across an early 70s version on ebay, open, but mint, for $50. Don't get lucky like that too very often.


Earl

Flash 08-18-2019 06:59 PM

2 Attachment(s)
New parts coming out soon by Boyce Aerospace for the BT80 and 3.9” size titans.

LeeR 08-18-2019 08:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl


[...]

This auction closed earlier today for an early Estes Gemin-Titan kit for $405. Auction listing I'm pretty sure by Matt Steele.

[...]

Earl


I’m happy for Matt. BUT...

I am reminded of comments I saw “somewhere”:

“It is ONLY worth that to a FOOL with more $$ than BRAINS.”

But about the K-21 ... “One of few kits actually worth $350.”

:chuckle:

tbzep 08-19-2019 07:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeR
I’m happy for Matt. BUT...

I am reminded of comments I saw “somewhere”:

“It is ONLY worth that to a FOOL with more $$ than BRAINS.”

But about the K-21 ... “One of few kits actually worth $350.”

:chuckle:

Unless it's changed, Matt's sales are funding competition teams. It's a little easier to overpay when you know it's going to "charity".

dwmzmm 08-21-2019 06:39 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Agreed, bring back the K-21 Gemini Titan - 3. I was fortunate to get the PDRocketry version when they still had it. A great builders model. Only thing I'd suggest Estes do (if they brought it back) is to include a one piece clear slip on fins as that's the usual sticking point many modelers have in regards to deciding to build and fly such a model.

Scott6060842 08-22-2019 08:07 AM

If Estes bring back the Gemini Titan I would be shocked if were anything like the K-21. Most likely the same as or similar to the Titan 2 release.

ghrocketman 08-22-2019 08:58 AM

The Estes Titan 2 and the Gemini Titan that followed in the mid/late 80's were plastic TOTAL TURDS.
Don't even offer it if it's not a real BUILDER'S kit.

LeeR 08-22-2019 01:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
Unless it's changed, Matt's sales are funding competition teams. It's a little easier to overpay when you know it's going to "charity".


I agree completely with the idea of donating (or bidding higher than normal) for a cause.


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