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-   -   Estes Little Joe I (http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=17340)

A Fish Named Wallyum 06-21-2018 08:46 PM

Estes Little Joe I
 
Am I the only one who had no idea about this?

https://www.facebook.com/estesrocke...?type=3&theater

"SNEAK PEEK! 👉 Product Development Director, Mike Fritz, loads a production model of the NEW Little Joe 1 kit due to be released soon. Witnessing the launch are Estes team members (left to right) Dave DelVecchio, Mary Roberts, Chandra Serfoss, and Angela Everhart.
We test fly a lot of rockets in Penrose! Did you know that every rocket kit sold by Estes has been flight tested many times during the course of product development? A minimum of three flight test models are built and flown multiple times with every recommended rocket engine. These flights are witnessed and the flight data is recorded."

SEL 06-21-2018 09:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Fish Named Wallyum
Am I the only one who had no idea about this?

https://www.facebook.com/estesrocke...?type=3&theater

"SNEAK PEEK! 👉 Product Development Director, Mike Fritz, loads a production model of the NEW Little Joe 1 kit due to be released soon. Witnessing the launch are Estes team members (left to right) Dave DelVecchio, Mary Roberts, Chandra Serfoss, and Angela Everhart.
We test fly a lot of rockets in Penrose! Did you know that every rocket kit sold by Estes has been flight tested many times during the course of product development? A minimum of three flight test models are built and flown multiple times with every recommended rocket engine. These flights are witnessed and the flight data is recorded."


Not the only one - more great news!

A Fish Named Wallyum 06-21-2018 10:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SEL
Not the only one - more great news!

Okay, so I read it right. I wasn't sure. :rolleyes: :D
Can't figure out why this isn't causing more than a slight tremor. I would have thought a new scale kit would be huge!

Initiator001 06-22-2018 12:28 AM

The new Estes Little Joe I kit will feature fins built up out of wood and covered with thin
card stock. ;)

leftover 06-22-2018 01:16 AM

Awesome news. I figure as soon as I scratch built one using the shapeways capsule somebody would put one out.
Super happy to see its Estes!!
And I agree I would think it would be huge news.

stefanj 06-22-2018 06:43 AM

Argghhh. I'm trying to cut way back on kit purchases, but this is one I'll get.

I guess it will use the same capsule as the Mercury Redstone?

ghrocketman 06-22-2018 06:59 AM

I'll get it his one too despite a huge kit backlog.
If memory serves correct, this is the first Little Joe I kit from a Major manufacturer.

BARGeezer 06-22-2018 01:17 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Enerjet had plans for a Mercury Little Joe (Little Joe I) in their Jan., 1973 newsletter. You can read about it in Chris Michealsson's blog here:

http://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot...ttle-joe-i.html

It used the same Mercury capsule currently being sold separately by Estes. With the parts list, templates, and instructions from the newsletter, it was easy to build a clone. It had nozzles made from cut off golf tees, but I left those off. And it was semi-scale, not true to scale, with the body lengthened a bit for stability.

turbofireball 06-22-2018 03:17 PM

The Little Joe 1 by Enerjet was never released as a kit, it just appeared in the newsletters as a suggestion for a modeler to build.

BARGeezer 06-22-2018 03:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbofireball
The Little Joe 1 by Enerjet was never released as a kit, it just appeared in the newsletters as a suggestion for a modeler to build.



You're right, will correct my post. Thanks.

Newbomb Turk 06-22-2018 08:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Fish Named Wallyum
Am I the only one who had no idea about this?

https://www.facebook.com/estesrocke...?type=3&theater

"SNEAK PEEK! 👉 Product Development Director, Mike Fritz, loads a production model of the NEW Little Joe 1 kit due to be released soon. Witnessing the launch are Estes team members (left to right) Dave DelVecchio, Mary Roberts, Chandra Serfoss, and Angela Everhart.


Yes, this is way cool, but I think the big news here might be Angie Everhart is working at Estes now! :eek: :D

neil_w 06-22-2018 08:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbomb Turk
Yes, this is way cool, but I think the big news here might be Angie Everhart is working at Estes now! :eek: :D

I don't know who she is, but I just looked at her LinkedIn page and it says she's been at Estes Cox since 2007... what am I missing?

Newbomb Turk 06-22-2018 09:46 PM

Just a silly play on names.

Angie Everhart was a Sports Illustrated model and actress. TV: Caroline in the City, 3rd Rock From the Sun; movies: Arnold's Last Action Hero.

blackshire 06-23-2018 12:53 AM

I wonder if it will depict just one round (I won't complain it that is the case), or if the stock kit will be able to be built to depict multiple rounds. The Wikipedia www.wikipedia.org article "Little Joe (rocket)" (it's one of their articles that can't be directly linked to) says that 8 Mercury/Little Joe I vehicles were flown, of which 6 were successful, including the two "monkeyed" missions that lofted Sam and Miss Sam.

BARGeezer 06-23-2018 12:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
I wonder if it will depict just one round (I won't complain it that is the case), or if the stock kit will be able to be built to depict multiple rounds. The Wikipedia www.wikipedia.org article "Little Joe (rocket)" (it's one of their articles that can't be directly linked to) says that 8 Mercury/Little Joe I vehicles were flown, of which 6 were successful, including the two "monkeyed" missions that lofted Sam and Miss Sam.



I suppose they could supply the "United States" decal and let the modeller paint it according to the flight they choose, but I'm wondering if they are going to use a generic decal or match the "block" style lettering on the original?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...Power_Power.JPG

You may have to go to full magnification to see the block lettering.

blackshire 06-23-2018 02:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BARGeezer
I suppose they could supply the "United States" decal and let the modeller paint it according to the flight they choose, but I'm wondering if they are going to use a generic decal or match the "block" style lettering on the original?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...Power_Power.JPG

You may have to go to full magnification to see the block lettering.
Thank you for posting that picture. There were some hardware differences between the different rounds, though (the booster/capsule adapter section and the escape tower aerospike), and there were some differences between the capsules themselves.

rocket.aero 06-23-2018 02:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
I wonder if it will depict just one round (I won't complain it that is the case), or if the stock kit will be able to be built to depict multiple rounds.


The Centuri-era Mercury capsule used in the new Estes kit has a porthole window, making it appropriate for depicting the LJ-5 round. If you're not a scale-obsessive type, though, it should be fine for either the -5A and -5B rounds, which featured capsules with the "centerline" window.

I'm just thrilled that this kit is real, and that we will be able to purchase it soon!

James

blackshire 06-23-2018 02:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocket.aero
The Centuri-era Mercury capsule used in the new Estes kit has a porthole window, making it appropriate for depicting the LJ-5 round. If you're not a scale-obsessive type, though, it should be fine for either the -5A and -5B rounds, which featured capsules with the "centerline" window.

I'm just thrilled that this kit is real, and that we will be able to purchase it soon!

James
I used to be scale-obsessive, but not anymore, and I share your glee that this kit is coming out! I was just thinking about customization possibilities.

leftover 06-26-2018 01:04 AM

Unless the change the capsule completely they won't be able to produce the early boiler plate, ones as they were completely different.

ghrocketman 06-26-2018 10:21 AM

Is there a date when supposedly available ??

A Fish Named Wallyum 06-26-2018 04:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
Is there a date when supposedly available ??

Nothing in the Facebox post. I'll keep and eye out, but John might be our best source for that info.

JediBoss 06-26-2018 07:16 PM

The catalog says to watch the website for the release date.

georgegassaway 06-26-2018 08:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BARGeezer
Enerjet had plans for a Mercury Little Joe (Little Joe I) in their Jan., 1973 newsletter. You can read about it in Chris Michealsson's blog here:

http://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot...ttle-joe-i.html

It used the same Mercury capsule currently being sold separately by Estes. With the parts list, templates, and instructions from the newsletter, it was easy to build a clone. It had nozzles made from cut off golf tees, but I left those off. And it was semi-scale, not true to scale, with the body lengthened a bit for stability.


FYI - That Centuri design fibbed on the diameter. The Redstone rocket was 70" in Diameter. The Little Joe I was 80" in diameter. There was a short conical adapted between the Mercury and Little Joe main body to go from 70" to 80".

At 1/35 scale, that would be a 2.28" body: BT-70 would be "close enough".

So one question that arises is if the adapter will be a paper transition (requiring some ST-20 2.04" tubing inside to hold the existing Mercury) or a molded piece.



ghrocketman 06-26-2018 08:24 PM

Thanks for the drawings showing each round, George !!

A Fish Named Wallyum 06-26-2018 08:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by georgegassaway
FYI - That Centuri design fibbed on the diameter. The Redstone rocket was 70" in Diameter. The Little Joe I was 80" in diameter. There was a short conical adapted between the Mercury and Little Joe main body to go from 70" to 80".

At 1/35 scale, that would be a 2.28" body: BT-70 would be "close enough".

So one question that arises is if the adapter will be a paper transition (requiring some ST-20 2.04" tubing inside to hold the existing Mercury) or a molded piece.



:cool: Excellent info. Thanks, George!

rocket.aero 06-26-2018 08:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by georgegassaway
At 1/35 scale, that would be a 2.28" body: BT-70 would be "close enough".

So one question that arises is if the adapter will be a paper transition (requiring some ST-20 2.04" tubing inside to hold the existing Mercury) or a molded piece.


The prototype that John Boren sent for (stealth) display at NARCON was constructed from ST-20 and BT-70 with a paper transition. I have a photo that I could share, but I have no idea how to post photos to this forum. Clicking on the Photo button simply adds an IMG tag, which probably means that the photo needs to be hosted elsewhere. If I'm doing something wrong, please let me know.

James

rocket.aero 06-26-2018 08:53 PM

Found a photo of me holding John's prototype on the web:

http://billsrockets.blogspot.com/20...-to-narcon.html

No one - not a single soul - asked me where this model came from. Several people picked it up and examined it, but no one guessed that it was a genuine Estes pre-production model.

James

tbzep 06-26-2018 08:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocket.aero
Found a photo of me holding John's prototype on the web:

http://billsrockets.blogspot.com/20...-to-narcon.html

No one - not a single soul - asked me where this model came from. Several people picked it up and examined it, but no one guessed that it was a genuine Estes pre-production model.

James

If I saw it being used in a scratch building presentation, I wouldn't ask where it came from either. I'd assume it was scratch built. ;)

Chas Russell 06-26-2018 09:00 PM

I did wonder, James, when you said that the base plate was a molded plastic part.

Chas

LeeR 06-27-2018 12:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Fish Named Wallyum
Am I the only one who had no idea about this?

https://www.facebook.com/estesrocke...?type=3&theater

"SNEAK PEEK! 👉 Product Development Director, Mike Fritz, loads a production model of the NEW Little Joe 1 kit due to be released soon. Witnessing the launch are Estes team members (left to right) Dave DelVecchio, Mary Roberts, Chandra Serfoss, and Angela Everhart.
We test fly a lot of rockets in Penrose! Did you know that every rocket kit sold by Estes has been flight tested many times during the course of product development? A minimum of three flight test models are built and flown multiple times with every recommended rocket engine. These flights are witnessed and the flight data is recorded."


I sure was surprised! I immediately went to the What’s New section of their website. I guess it needs to pass all the flight testing before it goes onto that page, but the “... kit due to be released soon” was what surprised me.

A Fish Named Wallyum 06-27-2018 12:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeR
I sure was surprised! I immediately went to the What’s New section of their website. I guess it needs to pass all the flight testing before it goes onto that page, but the “... kit due to be released soon” was what surprised me.

Yeah, I gave it two or three good reads before I posted it. I've jumped the gun before and wound up landing in something fragrant. :rolleyes:

astronwolf 06-27-2018 07:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocket.aero
No one - not a single soul - asked me where this model came from. Several people picked it up and examined it, but no one guessed that it was a genuine Estes pre-production model.

I was in the audience. You were presenting your experience with building the LJ1. You showed a bunch of models, and the assumption was that the models came from..... you. I vaguely recall that you said one model was a loaner.

jeffyjeep 06-27-2018 04:23 PM

Not to nitpick, but isn't "Little Joe I" actually a misnomer? Sort of like WWI was never called WWI until there was a second "war to end all wars". I believe it was just called the "Great War". So, was the Little Joe I simply called "Little Joe" or the Mercury Little Joe?

BARGeezer 06-27-2018 04:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffyjeep
Not to nitpick, but isn't "Little Joe I" actually a misnomer? Sort of like WWI was never called WWI until there was a second "war to end all wars". I believe it was just called the "Great War". So, was the Little Joe I simply called "Little Joe" or the Mercury Little Joe?


An astute observation. I believe the correct name is "Little Joe". At least per Wikipedia.

blackshire 06-27-2018 05:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BARGeezer
An astute observation. I believe the correct name is "Little Joe". At least per Wikipedia.
It's a retroactive name, if not a retronym (like how number-dial watches and clocks came to be called analog watches and clocks after digital watches and clocks came into common use). For example, before the Titan II ICBM came along, its predecessor--which is now called the Titan I--was just called "Titan." (Books and magazine articles that cover the original kerolox ICBM, such as the July 1962 "Popular Science" issue's article, "Underground with the Terrible Titan" [see: http://books.google.com/books?id=Ii...20Titan&f=false ], use the un-numbered name "Titan," although this article mentions the then-upcoming "Type II Titans"--and also uses the term "Titan II"--on page 174 [the first Titan II test flight occurred in March of 1962, but it didn't become operational until 1963].)

Doug Sams 06-27-2018 05:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
It's a retroactive name, if not a retronym (like how number-dial watches and clocks came to be called analog watches and clocks after digital watches and clocks came into common use). For example, before the Titan II ICBM came along, its predecessor--which is now called the Titan I--was just called "Titan." (Books and magazine articles that cover the original kerolox ICBM, such as the July 1962 "Popular Science" issue's article, "Underground with the Terrible Titan" [see: http://books.google.com/books?id=Ii...20Titan&f=false ], use the un-numbered name [the first Titan II test flight occurred in March of 1962, but it didn't become operational until 1963].)
It's sort of like the use of SR at the end of someone's name who has a son named Junior. It's an added attribute for the sake of clarity.

In this case, the inexactness makes it easier to understand.

Doug

.

blackshire 06-27-2018 05:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Sams
It's sort of like the use of SR at the end of someone's name who has a son named Junior. It's an added attribute for the sake of clarity.

In this case, the inexactness makes it easier to understand.

Doug

.
Indeed--just as Pliny the Elder likely wasn't known as that until his nephew Pliny the Younger was born (or became prominent in his field of endeavor).

jeffyjeep 06-27-2018 07:32 PM

On the other hand, when it comes to the movies “Ghostbusters” and “Ghostbusters II”, the first “Ghostbusters” is never referred to as “Ghostbusters I”—but rather just “Ghostbusters” OR “the Ghostbusters movie that didn’t suck”.

SEL 06-30-2018 02:28 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Fish Named Wallyum
Am I the only one who had no idea about this?

https://www.facebook.com/estesrocke...?type=3&theater



Way back in 1998, Yita Wu of HUVARS (I think) put together a Little Joe I kit. Not exactly up to scale, but not bad. Below is a pic from a CMASS launch. Flew really well on C6-3's. It ultimately fell victim to a A8-3 (I wasn't wearing my glasses).



S.

rocket.aero 06-30-2018 03:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SEL
Way back in 1998, Yita Wu of HUVARS (I think) put together a Little Joe I kit. Not exactly up to scale, but not bad.


The Yitah Wu LJ kit was the seed that began a 20+ year obsession with the Little Joe for me. If I ever meet the guy I plan on buying him many beers.

The scale qualities of that kit were actually pretty good, and the forthcoming Estes kit is very similar to that old gem.

James


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