If that's what floats your boat... but God it's UGLY to me...

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Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).

"The Guide says there is an art to flying", said Ford, "or rather a knack."
"The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."

Launching is Optional... Landing? That Depends on Trees.

It was a joke off your upper version, but I meant 1" long lugs on 1/2" long standoffs, not 1/2" HIGH.
Those things ARE hideous.

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When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !
Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC !

You have to be careful what you ask for... You never, know, you might get it...

1" long LLs on 1/2" long standoffs... Not 1/2" HIGH. Those ARE hideous

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__________________
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Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).

"The Guide says there is an art to flying", said Ford, "or rather a knack."
"The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."

Launching is Optional... Landing? That Depends on Trees.

Hi Earl,

I'm having some problems with the sim of the Cherokee-D, and perhaps you can help. The sim is saying that the one piece finned version has only .56 calibers of stability. I'm sure that Estes would have never released a kit with that low amount of stability. It has been suggested that the weight of the default balsa nosecone is too little. Can you weigh your NC for me?

Thanks

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Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).

"The Guide says there is an art to flying", said Ford, "or rather a knack."
"The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."

Launching is Optional... Landing? That Depends on Trees.

My digital scale is showing .48 ounces.

Earl

__________________
Earl L. Cagle, Jr.
NAR# 29523
TRA# 962
SAM# 73
Owner/Producer
Point 39 Productions

Rocket-Brained Since 1970

That does the trick... W/o the air fins, it's now at 1.07 Calibers.

Thanks!

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Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).

"The Guide says there is an art to flying", said Ford, "or rather a knack."
"The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."

Launching is Optional... Landing? That Depends on Trees.

do the original decals have white areas?

__________________
Bernard J. Herman Ohio RLS

Starport Sagitta Rockets
email bherman@sagittarockets.com

NAR # 97971 SR

What's your idea on the best way to change Washington D.C.?
Let us know at the Cantina
Sagitta Cantina

We're looking for a few good Catos, please tell us about any you may have had. Survey of Anecdotal Malfunctioning Engines or S.A.M.E.

No, the original decals have no actual white. There are 'clear' areas on the decals (you can see them in post #1, if you have not already), like the 'stars' you see there, but the base white paint on the model would show through those areas and would appear as white after applied.

Earl

__________________
Earl L. Cagle, Jr.
NAR# 29523
TRA# 962
SAM# 73
Owner/Producer
Point 39 Productions

Rocket-Brained Since 1970

Like Earl's kit, my later Cherokee-D kit's decals do not have any white printed on them. Mine came on a blue backing paper, and you can see the blue in the stars, CP markings and the logo.

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Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).

"The Guide says there is an art to flying", said Ford, "or rather a knack."
"The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."

Launching is Optional... Landing? That Depends on Trees.

Ok... I finally managed to finish all three of the early versions of the Estes Astron Cherokee-D (K-47). The original two-piece fin version, the slightly later one-piece version (both from 1970), and the later 1971-? long version. The long version is based on the catalog photo, but I'm pretty sure that it's accurate. There are a couple of minor variants that could also be floating around out there that would have been made in the 1970s.

Estes Astron Cherokee-D (K-47)(Two-Piece Fin Variant)


Notes:
Decals: white backing paper, pre-Damon era logo on the wrap.
Nosecone: BNC-55AC.
Body Tube: BT-55V (~16.35" long).
Screw Eye: SE-1.
Shock Cord: SC-2 ( .25" x ~18").
Parachute: PK-18 (yellow and red checkerboard with pre-Damon era logo).
Fins: made from two pieces of 3/32" thick balsa (small hump on rear fin tip).
Engine Hook: Thin .096" wide (gap cut in aft CR 1/8")
Standoff: a 1" long piece of 1/16" dowel was included for a standoff to be used in conjuction with the "C" Rail.


Estes Astron Cherokee-D (K-47)(Short, One-Piece Fin Variant)


Notes:
Decals: white backing paper, pre-Damon era logo on the wrap.
Nosecone: BNC-55AC.
Body Tube: BT-55V (~16.35" long).
Screw Eye: SE-2.
Shock Cord: SC-2 ( .25" x ~18").
Parachute: PK-18 (orange and white "Sunburst" pattern, Damon era logo, printed on clear plastic).
Fins: made from one piece of 3/32" thick balsa (small hump on forward fin tip).
Engine Hook: Thin .096" wide (gap cut in aft CR 1/8")
Standoff: Standoff and "C" Rail not mentioned or included in this or later versions.

Estes Astron Cherokee-D (K-47)(Early Production Long Variant)


Notes:
Decals: white backing paper, pre-Damon era logo on the wrap.
Nosecone: BNC-55AC
Body Tube: BT-55 (18" long)
Screw Eye: SE-2
Shock Cord: SC-2 ( .25" x ~18")
Parachute: PK-18 (orange and white "Sunburst" pattern, Damon era logo, printed on clear plastic)
Fins: made from one piece of 3/32" thick balsa (small hump on forward fin tip)
Engine Hook: Thin .096" wide (gap cut in aft CR 1/8")

I personally have an original set of later decals with the Damon era logo printed on white backing paper. The catalog photos from 1973 clearly still have the old logo and if you look carefully you can just barely see the old logo on the 1971 catalog photo too.

The BNC-55AC appears in the catalog until 1974, PNC-55AC doesn't appear until 1975 (it is unlikely that they'd have made the plastic nosecone and not included it in the catalog). Photographic analysis of the 1971 catalog shows that the body tube is longer than 16.35". The shock cord and screw eye used are best guesses. In the earlier, one piece finned version, the parachute had the Sunburst pattern shown in the instructions. The parachute included in my later produced Citation Red Max (boxed version)(ca. 1973) has a clear background on its parachute, and the included engine hook was thin, it's uncertain when these parts changed, but it was clearly after the 1971 version of the K-47 kit was produced.

So, here's the questions that I've yet to find the answers to...
Is my Early Production Variant accurate? If not, what needs to be changed?
When did Estes switch the decals to have the Damon Era logo? And when did they change the color of the backing paper?
When did the engine hook change width?
When did the shock cord change from the 1/4" wide SC-2 to the 1/8" wide SC-1?
When did the parachute change to one printed on the white plastic?
Were these incremental changes? or did they happen all at once? (My guess is incremental changes).

And the BIG Quesions...
When did the nosecone change to the PNC-55AC?
Where are the instructions that show the intermediate steps? The instructions I've seen so far are the two versions of the 1970 kit, and the late production version (ca. 1983). You can see that recommended motors did change over time in the catalogs. Surely the instructions were updated to reflect these changes (and no I didn't call you Shirley).
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Attached Files

	Estes Astron Cherokee-D (K-47)(Two-Piece Fin Version)(Facecard Markings).ork (72.4 KB, 11 views)
	Estes Astron Cherokee-D (K-47)(One-Piece Fin Version).ork (67.6 KB, 11 views)
	Estes Astron Cherokee-D (K-47)(Eary Production, Long Version (ca. 1971)).ork (67.8 KB, 7 views)

__________________
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.

Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).

"The Guide says there is an art to flying", said Ford, "or rather a knack."
"The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."

Launching is Optional... Landing? That Depends on Trees.